Ireland: 'Ted Ginn is a player I like very much'

So, don't worry about losing our lone speed wideout and KR threat, we have two HBs and an aged OLB/DE? Ok, Gotcha.

 

The fear would be that Ireland and Parcells believe they don't need a #1 because they already have Ginn. Its an unfounded fear but that's why you keep reading that in relation to keeping Ginn instead of trading him.

 

Nothing I've ever seen Ireland say makes me think that he thinks he has a #1 WR on this team. Everything I've seen him say leads me to believe he knows he doesn't have a #1 WR and that he needs to get one.

 

The more I talk about it the more I see the value in keeping Ginn as a 4th or 5th wideout.

1 - New #1 WR
2 - Hartline
3 - Bess
4 - Camarillo
5 - Ginn

Of course then we'd have to cut ties with Patrick Turner.

 

I agree. I was just explaining to Two Tacos how some fans believe keeping Ginn could possibly impact us from landing a #1.

 

As our lone speed wideout Ginn hasn't done much. If we draft a guy like Dez Bryant or Golden Tate where do you see Ginn fitting in?

 

Assuming only one new guy made the team at WR this upcoming season, we wouldn't have to cut Turner. I mean we could be like a lot of other teams in the league and actually roster 6 WRs. Now that might mean we get crazy on offense and occasionally use 4-WR sets or even *gasp* 5-wide sets. I realize having a WR not being active each week might not be the best use of resources, but someone has to be inactive each week. I'd agree with cutting Turner if he isn't one of the best 53, but I wouldn't agree with cutting him just because he'd typically be inactive. But that's merely my opinion.

 

I think he would compliment Bryant pretty good. Dez, while not slow, is not a burner but he should demand attention. Tate plays like a RB with the ball in his hands and definitely isn't a guy as fast as Ginn either. Ginn could fit as the #2, or even just the #3 or #4. I mean we know he typically wouldn't play the slot even if he was the #3 WR, but he is useful split out wide.

 

Same as he is now. Return man, (I’d want him to return punts too) and 3rd or 2nd WR depending on formation, down, distance, etc... He certainty would be less important, but Bryant or Tate have to come in and play well too. WRs typically take longer to develop. A lot of people, myself included, thought Ginn had what it took to be special. Who knows, he could still pull a Tony Martin type career out, not that I’d plan on it. His speed would help either of those guys get open on 3rd and long.

 

I'm still hoping for a Tim Brown type career, but I definitely am not holding my breath.

 

I think Ginn could be deadly in an already potent offense - he would only need to come in and make big plays. In this offense he is asked to do the little things - which he isn't nearly as good at as just getting open deep.

I like Ginn a lot so I have been holding out hope he would be successful in Miami - but a lot of posters have the right idea when they say he needs a fresh start somewhere else - in an offense more tailored to finding open spaces and deeper routes.

 

Useful to who?

 

I don't feel it would be hard to replace Ginn as a return man. He is a threat to take it to the house but how often does that happen?

In any down and distance I much prefer Hartline as our 2nd wideout and Bess as our 3rd. By the end of the season if Henne was in a must convert type of situation I found myself shouting "Don't throw it to Ginn!"

Very true.

Anything is possible even if it seems unlikely.

Not really. If we're talking decoy Hartline can run a fly pattern just as easily as Ginn.

 

Not sure why you say that. He had some bad drops at the beginning of the year - but came up with two sideline grabs, the knee catch and the big Houston game at the end of the year. He was extremely clutch in pressure situations at the end of the year (you specified end of the year).

 

Maybe my perception is off but I felt he dropped a few key passes down the stretch.

 

I don't know if making a couple nice catches is any reason to call him extremely clutch, if you compare the catches he made in pressure situations to the ones he didn't make, it's well, just not a pretty sight.

 

I disagree - but I also qualified my post by saying "at the end of the year". He didn't have any drops in those last games and came up with all of the clutch balls that were catchable - can't ask for more than that.

I think there is a perception that he was miserable all year - he had a stretch of 5-6 bad games and after that made all of the catches that he was given the opportunity to make.

 

You see I don't think doing what he is suppose to do clutch unless it's something out of the ordinary, he did make one nice catch where he held the ball against his leg but I believe that was because he almost dropped it.

I think some here are trying to hype him up too much just to justify bringing him back for another year.

Now I really have no problem bringing him back for training camp but he needs to show he is a different football player and not one that looks like he is afraid to play the game.

 

If you believe PFF he only had 2 drops between week 11 and 17. They have a total of 10 drops, but I am pretty sure he only had 9. I only recall one pass I would consider a drop. They have a drop in the HOU game, and I am sure it is the play near the GL where I thought the ball was terribly misplaced. I didn't consider that a drop, but whatever. That'd still be 2 "drops" on 29 targets (6.9%) which is a lot better than the 8 "drops" he had on 44 targets from week 1-10 (18%).

Had he played all season like he did from week 11-17 (assuming the same number of targets in weeks 1-10) his final stats would be like:

73 targets, 48 rec (65.5% catch rate), 5 drops, 596 yards (12.4ypc).

Would that be great? Hell no. Would it be better than what he actually did? Obviously. I just wanted to better illustrate how he did over the last part of the season. 5 drops on 73 targets isn't terrible. One drop every 10 catches isn't all that bad either. A 65% catch rate is quite good as well. Most everyone here admits he had a bad year, and I've said he was downright awful from like San Diego to Tampa Bay (with the lone exception being the 1st Jets game). But he finished the season out strong (in the chances he was getting), and that is reason enough for me to be optimistic that he can turn it around to at least play like he did in 2008. Will it happen? I don't know. But I think he's talented enough to give another chance to prove it in camp at least (as opposed to just outright cutting him or trading him for a 4th or less).

 

Also, if you believe PFF, they rate Ginn as the #6 KR in the league this past season. Is that elite? No, probably not. But it is most certainly very good.

 

On returns Teddy needs a block, or a mistake on coverage. He can make a guy miss, but he isn't running through a finger tackle, much less a whole arm. If he can get the edge, or finds a crease he is gone.

Hartline can run a fly, but if you cannot see the difference when Teddy runs it, I'm not sure there is much point in going on with this. Ginns speed is really special.

 

Great post! Thanks.

 

Maybe you misunderstood. We were talking about using Ginn as a decoy freeing up the other wideouts. Send Ginn on a fly pattern and you take the cornerback covering him out of the play. All I'm saying is you could do the exact same thing with Hartline.

 

I expect that Ginn's role going forward should be as the KR and as part of the platoon at #2. He was basically platooning at #2 at the end of the year anyways. If you look at PFF for the last 5 weeks you see Ginn, Hartline and Cam all rated about equal (Ginn is actually the highest by a small margin).