Ted Ginn on Special Teams

Pretty much, but realistically him coming off a knee injury I don't know how effective he could be anymore so that being said I think our best option is look elsewhere to get a returner.

But nothing would make me happier than to see Ginn turn his career around and finally act like a football player, but I just don't think that is in his demeaner. His confidence is beyond shot that if there any chance of him getting it back it's not with us. Because obviously we are not reaching him.

 

Acting as if he has never another good return in the 47 other games is just plain wrong.

And would you really rather have Cobbs take it to the 20 than Ginn possibly breaking it just to prove a point?

I'd rather win games than win some tough guy competition.

 

And still just a meaningless number, at least to me.

 

Thank you for completely changing what's being argued here (special teams).

If everything he does or doesn't do will based on the idea that he's a bust as the 9th pick, congrats, you win. He'll never outperform any player on this team if that will always be how he's evaluated (except maybe Jason Allen).

 

Just like "looking like a football player" is meaningless to me if you are outperformed by someone who "doesn't act like a football player."

 

I love what Bess, Cam and Hartline provide but there is a reason they weren't drafted high or paid well - they don't provide what Ted Ginn can. Possession receivers aren't all that difficult to find (as proven by the fact that we had one, Welker, traded him, and then instantly found 3 more).

Is Ted Ginn worth his contract or draft slot? Nope. But if he can become consistent in making the big plays we've seen, then he is worth an overblown contract because A) he is contributing to wins and B) he provides something that no one else can.

 

Never said that, don't put words in my mouth. I am criticizing his lack of big play on the returns over his career, up till the Jets game this year it had been near non-existent.

No, to set a tone, I think I made that perfectly clear but I guess you just rather put words in my mouth once again.

 

How many big plays each season do you expect in the return game, out of curiosity? He had big plays in the return game in the past when given opportunities, they were just negated (the touchdowns at least). Two out of three of those calls seemed a tad ticky-tacky as well; I do remember the majority of the board agreeing on that back then as well. Of course it might change simply because it's Ted Ginn.

I think we have our bar set at too high of standards for Ted Ginn compared to others. At this point, we should take what we can get. A $1 million base salary is not that bad, believe me... I've seen practically every players' base salary each year when I run the GM League. $1 million is not that high for one player and IMO is not a good reason to just let him go.

 

I should've worded that more carefully. Padre's OP was stating that he thought Ginn should handle KR duties and be the 4th WR.

My main gripe with that is that I don't believe it's fiscally sound - you can pay Davone Bess AND Brian Hartline with Ginn's salary. You can probably also afford to pay some like Tristan Davis (is he our Stefan Logan, who knows?) in addition to those two on Ginn's salary and still get the same production from both a receiving and special teams standpoint. That said, I'd like to see what he could do with say, Brandon Marshall opposite him in addition to special teams duties.

I just feel like at some point if I'm Jeff Ireland, how much longer can you keep players with relatively large salaries (like Ginn and Jason Allen) on the roster for special teams production? Who knows what the ramifications of a new CBA will be - teams may have to dump salary or some such circumstance. I'd rather get the most out of my money. If you keep Ginn as a KR/4th WR, why not make him re-negotiate his salary? Same goes for Jason Allen.

 

I'm not sold on the idea that Ginn is a complete disaster as a WR. He had almost 800 yds last year and showed he could get open deep on a consistent basis this year. I think the last 5 games or so we opened up the offense and actually threw the ball deep - if he straightens his head out his improved route running and ability to get separation should make him a huge threat in the deeper game. He was going up and getting the ball and getting open deep in that Houston game. I'd take the Ted Ginn we saw in that game as a #2 any day of the week.

I am hoping (beyond Ginn's production) that the team keeps moving to open the offense up in the deeper passing game. I mentioned this in another thread and got some push-back but I haven't seen routes down the field or across the middle that give our WR's the ability to run after the catch or find holes deeper down the field.

It seems most of our routes are under 10 yards or are coming back to the QB / toward the sideline. Our offense needed so much to go right to complete a drive that we seemed tentative to run plays with big-play potential in favor of plays we knew would get us 5-6 yards.

 

For the record Ginn has a paltry salary. Almost 75% of his money came in a guaranteed bonus. He will also cost more (against a cap) off the team in 2010 than he will if he's on it. There is basically zero benefit to renegotiating Ginn's salary. All that could be done regarding his contract (outside of nothing, cutting him, or trading him) is turning some of his remaining salary into guaranteed money. But that would pretty much counter-productive and pointless. You could try and sign him to a new "lower" contract, but it would never be accepted without at least some guarantees, which would probably end up costing more than his remaining two year salaries anyway. The NFLPA would never allow him or his agent to sign a 2 year deal for less than his current salary.

 

Points well taken, but according to this site, for the remaining year's on his deal, he's due over $1M per. http://phins-spotlight.com/PlayerContracts.htm

 

Regardless. If it's $1.5M or less/yr, it is a small salary, and it'd still cost more to have him gone in 2010.