John Clayton says Parcells "isnt big on" drafting WR in 1st round

The uniform was his first, and very clean.

 

mike from atlanta can suck it. im glad he's not our GM.

We don't need to invest another 1st round pick into our offensive line. We've already got 2 first rounders at tackle, and 2 high priced FA's inside. Drafting a backup tackle or a starting interior lineman with our first pick would be dumb.

Defensive line? That's one of our deepest positions. Unless we see a nose tackle that blow us out of the water, I don't think we need to be looking there.

Backup tight end in the early mid rounds? Come on. Anthony Fasano is a backup tight end. We dont need any more backup tight ends. We need a beast. If one is available in round one, it's gotta be on our plate. Mid rounds could find us a Jason Witten, but drafting a backup intentionally should not be the plan. We need a #1 TE.

If the BPA in round 1 is a TE, WR, ILB, FS, NT, or OLB then we are taking that player. That shouldn't be a problem with the number of needs we have.

 

I totally agree with you on the TE position bro.

 

First, you have to know what he looks like. I've never seen him.

 

I think they did a nice job finding Bess and Hartline.

Both of those guys should be solid for us in the future.

Now we just need that one WR that takes our offense to another level.

 

They did their due diligance with Ginn and giving him a shot, and frankly they didn't need a true #1 with Pennington at QB. Now is the right time to find that kind of player, but I don't think you can portray it as a chronic problem that has been neglected largely for trivialities

 

Brandon Marshall's price went way up and what will the Cards take for Boldin now?

These are questions we need to ask ourselves in the offseason, we dont need anymore guys who can catch first downs we need a WR that is a red zone threat and a deep threat. There isnt many of these players lying around and really who looks the part that can be drafted where we will pick?

I think were gonna have to bear down and pay top dollar or sacrafice some high picks, it sucks to do either but its certainly time.

 

Thats the problem. You need to find someone who they know about, can aquire because of their situation.

The broncos aren't letting marshall go. He will get signed by them. Marshall likes the new team since last seasons overahaul. He's having fun, producing and Orton is throwing everything his way. Why would he want to leave that now. If it wasn't working out in Denver. Then i could see him leaving. Not now.

We heard whispers that Parcells / Sparano and ireland were interested in Miles Austin. A young good fundamentals guy who wasn't playing because of the depth in front of him until TO left. Thats the type of guy we would be looking for. So most likely targets would be teams with many good recievers and good depth. Our FO knows what they look for in terms of size, speed, hands. Just because a player hasn't played much doesn't mean you coudn't aquire for a lot less and take the chance that the wideout gets his opportunity here.

I'm with Gish. The draft methodology they had was terrible. Pending where we pick, who's left on the board I could see us going with BPA, whether that be a great TE prospect, a ILB, S, WR or even a RB if things with Ronnie don't go well. Even a great NT prospect if there is one available in the first. But they seem to be rare and are in high demand.

 

I'm concerned about the potential lack of quality at receiver in the mid-late second round. I don't really see this as a deep receiver class in terms of finding a #1. Golden Tate is the guy that I really, really want, though.

 

You know, while it would great to have a super star WR, looking back at this season, I feel like our most pressing needs lie with the defense. Specifically, NT and all LB spots. Our defense cost us more games than our offense did.

 

If Bill is against drafting WR's in the first just because, that is not smart. WR is arguably our biggest need and you saw the draft of first-round WR's last year. With the exception of DHB, it's been pretty damn solid. Any one of the first-round WR's last year (outside of DHB) would be an instant upgrade on this team. Harvin, Nicks, Britt, Maclin, Crabtree. These are first-round guys that are all doing quite well. Our 3rd round WR is doing great, isn't he? Has he even taken the field for one play? What makes this even harder to deal with is the fact Tate is projected around our pick.

Come on Bill. I think blanket statements about draft ideology are never good. What is the saying, "absolutes are never true?"

 

Didn't Bill take Keyshawn #1 overall when he was with the Jets?

 

Bess has been very inconsistent this year. Last year he was not. He's regressed. He had 4 games straight with less than 20 yards receiving. Did we forget that? And drops that get overlooked, and some killer fumbles. His last game was pretty bad too.

While they may have "found" Bess, it was also in part because Bess threw himself in front of them. His agent was interviewed and he was detailing how they targeted Miami after the draft because of the obvious lack of WRs.

 

Parcells wasn't there yet. It was Kotite I believe.

 

In Clayton's defense, the national media still sees Bill Parcells as the face of the front office and, to a lesser extent, the coaching scheme.

 

On the surface this may seem to be accurate, but when you look at his stats this year and compare it to some of the other "top receivers" in the league he stands up quite well.

NOTE: Click chart for stats page.

 

Bess ahead of Andre Johnson huh?

Well, that ruins any credability that site holds with me.

 

needs:
NT
ILB
WR

could just pick the very best player available when we pick

 

You know what else Bill Parcell's isn't big on?

Drafting gimmicky QB's to run the spread offense in the 2nd round.

I think the Pat White showed us two things -

1 - Bill Parcells isn't running the show as much as the media thinks

2 - Ireland isn't scared to go after a playmaker

 

I agree, especially with your first couple of picks. Now if you can line up best player with Need then all the better. I want us to be great for a long time, so best player is the way to go IMO.

 

I think you left off...

3 - Ireland better not make that same mistake again.

 

It's ranking efficiency at the position, not the best WR's in the game.
As a matter of fact, Bess had a higher catch % (by over 10% actually) than Johnson. Johnson also has 2 more INTs that were thrown his way by the QB than Bess, has dropped 2 more passes than Bess has, and has 4 missed tackles less than Bess. So again, this doesn't rank talent, but efficiency at the position. Technically, Bess has been more efficient.... and this is without figuring what percentage of the catches went for what (first downs, etc). I am NOT saying Bess is better than Johnson, just saying we need to understand what we're looking at. In Johnson's defense here, he is not a possession receiver so he won't have as high of a catch percentage. He'll also have more TDs. It is what it is.

Here's a snapshot of our receivers from PFF:

Bess: 73.8% of passes caught, 6 drops, 10 missed tackles, 1 fumble, 9.2 YPC
Camarillo: 78% of passes caught, 0 drops, 2 missed tackles, 0 fumbles, 11.6 YPC
Hartline: 61.5% of passes caught, 1 drop, 1 missed tackle, 0 fumbles, 14.4 YPC
Ginn: 46.7% of passes caught, 9 drops, 1 missed tackle, 0 fumbles, 11.2 YPC

http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_...runpass=pass&teamid=17&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

Now this doesn't take into account catches for first downs, situationals, etc, etc....

 

Not sure how those numbers could be correct considering he fumbled against NO and against JAX.

Also - Ginn only has 3 more drops than Bess and we spend as much time as we do ragging on Ginn's hands?

Finally - the catch to targets stat is misleading. The QB has WAY more to do with the pass than the WR. If a QB throws the ball into the dirt is it the WR's fault? Also, players like Welker and Bess are obviously going to have higher rates because they catch mostly passes under 15 yards whereas the other WRs are often targeted deep (and by nature of the deep pass, get less completions).

 

I pulled the stats from Pro Football Focus, which is generally considered as one of the better statistical sites. Your concerns are valid - but they hold true for all the receivers rated, so you'd just have to write that off as it would be a common denominator.

The reality is you will always have caveats and exceptions for everything. If you'd like to do so for your argument against one receiver, you'd have to give the same treatment to all the others. As of yet, I haven't seen anyone take the time to go that far with analysis, but if you want to start, i'm sure Dolphin nation would be grateful to you!

Your concern about possession receivers and catch distance is a valid one and one i specifically addressed in my previous post. Fortunately, yards per catch is a recorded statistic and you can see it at the site above. I've since gone back and added YPC to my post above - you can see outside of Hartline, the Dolphins WR's are not that far apart. Andre Johnson's YPC is 14.9, which is only slightly higher than Hartline's.

To look at ALL receivers, click here:
http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_...runpass=pass&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

 

I didn't mean to make it sound like I was attacking your post. I just think stats for WR can be a bit misleading. The WR position is somewhat different in that all WR aren't asked to do the same thing. There are possession guys and guys who run deep routes etc.

I made a point the other day that RB's consistently have the highest catch % because most of their routes are screens or short passes that have a high chance of being completed - but that doesn't make them better than Welker / Bess - just as how Bess / Welker get short routes that are high percentage plays compared to, say, Andre Johnson.

 

Understood.

That phenomenon isn't isolated to Bess or the Miami Dolphins though, and the ratings system on that site does account for number of catches, too. That's partially why Bess is ranked higher than Camarillo, even though statistically, Camarillo has been better. If you are thrown to more often, the recipient of those throws does get credit in those rankings. So RB's with only a few receptions on the year for long gains don't get the same credit that a WR does.

 

Another stat I like to review (and haven't found an efficient way of doing) is provided by ESPN's splits and shows how far the ball traveled in the air for a reception. 77% of Bess' reception are for under 10 yds. 22 of those were behind the line of scrimmage with a long of those being 14 yds.

Our other receivers are all around 60-65% with a much smaller portion (or none) behind the line of scrimmage.

This tells me that while Bess does some great things - he doesn't get many of the "chunk" yards that coach is always talking about.

While I think Bess is a good role player and has value - I see him as a complimentary WR and not one I want to be giving the bulk of looks.

I think it comes down to what you want your WR to be able to do. I love what Bess provides but am more excited about a guy like Hartline who can excel in those 10-20 yard routes.

EDIT - interesting that site ranks Bess' blocking as worse than Ginn. Bess actually outweighs Ginn by about 10 lbs.

 

Well according to these stats we really do have a #1 reciever

 

Pretty sure that fumble was on a Punt Return.

 

Wasn't sure so I checked ESPN's play-by-play -

2nd and 17 at NO 47 C.Henne pass short right to D.Bess to NO 47 for no gain (R.Harper). FUMBLES (R.Harper), RECOVERED by NO-S.Shanle at NO 49. S.Shanle ran ob at NO 49 for no gain. The Replay Assistant challenged the fumble ruling, and the play was Upheld.

 

Good call. It was a bubble screen IIRC.

 

I think you're probably holding Bess to too high of a standard. Bess is an undrafted walk-on who had to fight for a spot on the team. We're impressed because he's over-performed his expectations. So he's not a deep threat - so what? That's not his role. He's a slot guy who's strength is as a possession receiver. I can't remember where I saw the statistic, but Bess leads the league in 3rd down receptions that move the chains.

THAT is his skillset.

The problem is when we try to use him for things he's not built for.... like deep routes, reverses, etc, etc. I think he gets dinged in the eyes of the fans when he doesn't excel when he plays out of position.

A 3rd down slot guy that is supposed to move the chains isn't traditionally going to have more than 10 yards per catch.... and having less than 10 yards per catch isn't a bad thing.... Not when you're catching so many of the balls thrown your way.

One thing I agree with you on is that Bess should not be getting this many looks. The reason for this is because our WR corps is so poor. If we had a proper #1 guy opposite our 3 other #2's, our #3 guy, Bess, could stay in the slot and do what he's supposed to do. In other words, I think he isn't as great when he's called upon to do more than he should, but I don't blame him for that. We lack offensive talent & firepower at WR, so we're reaching to find whatever we can out of whomever we can.

My ideal situation for our corps? Get a legit #1 in the offseason. Put Hartline out at the other side as our #2, and Bess is our #3/slot guy. Bess stays as our chains-mover, gets called upon a lot less, and gets to really perfect what he's good at doing.

The fumble stat - might only be fumbles lost? I don't know, but I agree that number seems inaccurate.

 

Bess has caught 62/84 passes for a 73.8%
Ginn has caught 28/60 passes for a 46.7%

Bess has been targeted 24 more times, but has caught 30% more passes.

 

when did parcells ever need to draft a WR in the first round? now is a good time for that cricket video. I believe we will get our WR in the first because we need it and parcells always does what is needed!