Put me on the "Shelve Pat White" list....

It's really shockingly bad that people are suggesting that using Pat White is a failed experiment at this point. There's so much basic, entry-level understanding of football you've got to be willing to discard to arrive to that conclusion.

He's a rookie that is going to spend most of his time running the ball. People seem to have no difficulty at all grasping the idea that you need to give a runningback multiple carries for him to get going in the rushing game, but somehow this is irrelevent to a rookie quarterback.

Secondly, he's not really throwing the ball either. You've got a formation where half of the playbook is on hold because he's a rookie.


Oh, yeah, as a Post-Script... I did the "Pat White killing drives" thing in the other thread. He doesn't, there have been precious few drives where this has been the case, and overwhelmingly the Dolphins have scored off drives he was in, even when his contribution was negligible.

 

Im sorry, I don't think its completely fair to give up on a guy playing the hardest position in football after a few months.

Give him 3 years at least.

Next week he scores a TD, and most of you will be praising him.

Just let him develop, give him a CHANCE.

 

Do you have the numbers? Not questioning you, I'd just like to see them if you do.

 

Put me on the "We need to show the league Pat White can pass before the option can truely be an effective weapon" list.

The WNTSTLPWCPBTOCTBAEW list for short

 

See, I don't think people are calling him a bust or as you put it a "failed experiment". I also think that for the most part people on this site are knowledgeable fans and understand he's a rookie and that he needs time to develop. We could have made the same argument for Henne last year, yet you didn't see the dolphins having a "Henne Package". The fact is and yes its a fact that if you evaluated all the plays hes had this year and what he has done with them he doesn't warrent playing time. The mere 4.2 YPC he's offering us could easily be picked up by any one of our current backs and well is 0-3 pass attempts could be covered by well, anyone on the team really.

 

The thing is he isn't a very good runner. He isn't quick or fast enough to make people miss like Vick, he isn't big or strong enough to bulldoze players over.

at this point it needs to be shelved because its an accident waiting to happen.

 

Wow..... Just wow lol =)

 

Can any one of our current backs throw 60 yards to Ted Ginn though? The threat of that, and the potential for us to complete plays like that is the difference which may mean that he does warrant playing time. Just because we haven't seen stellar results doesn't mean the plays are unwarranted.

He was a better runner in college than Vick was, and a better passer as well. We haven't had enough of an opportunity to see if he'll be a better runner in the NFL, but you can't just write him off as an untalented runner.

 

Ok but let's say you are driving and it's first down.....would you rather trot Pat White out there..... or give Henne a chance to throw on that down? If you're gonna mix it up, wouldn't you rather just put the ball in the better player's hands and let him push it up field?

What are your thoughts on us at least trying to come up with a couple plays to get him the ball as a receiver?

And wouldn't you agree that with his abilities in the open field, the idea has some potential?

 

Who cares what he did in college what is he doing in the NFL?

All I'm saying is he nothing special.

 

You really don't think he doesn't have the quickness to make people miss?

Im pretty sure he made at least one person miss on that 31yd run he had on the draw/sweep or w/e it was. If he didn't then he just ran right past them.

He hasn't exactly had ALL that many opportunities to play as of yet, and I know college and NFL are different, but you don't get 4,000+ yards in any league by mistake. Its not like he never had to make anyone miss.

Is he a GREAT runner? No, but he has some wheels, and I really do believe he can make people miss.

 

Who wouldn't care what a player does in college is the better question. Otherwise we might as well scrap our entire scouting division. Whats the point? Very few rookies are special through 12 games, so I don't see any foundation for your argument whatsoever.

 

WOW !!! We all really wanna party with all you guys after a BIG WIN.

We got six DOLPHANS chugging beers and talking about how great Henne played, wake and Davis being Playmakers, etc.

How the hell could we possibly forget how White did, or may do? Silly Phans are we. All you "Phans" would be welcome, for about a minute or two.

We all cannot stop LAUGHING in amazement. If we are not showing respect, IT IS WELL EARNED.

Joe, Pat, John, Ernesto. Mike, & Gene (along with COUNTLESS PHINS PHANS)

 

I'm fine with White if Brown is still in there running the WC but what is the point taking out the supposed franchise QB to potentially taking a sack, Loss of yards, or a turnover?

Thats not what I meant. I'm saying once they get to the NFL college stats mean NOTHING.

Lets see were in the playoff hunt and were going to take out the best QB on our roster that gives us a chance to win games to run a couple of gimmick plays that go no where?

We shouldn't run the WC or Option that died when Brown went down.

 

I hear you, but this is a discussion board. Not much point to a discussion board where people just say "Woo hoo! We won!" or "Damn! We lost!!" I can do that all by myself.

We won by a point. We can all think of a half-dozen plays going the other way that would have led to a different result. So, it's worth talking about what we could have/should have done differently.

 

Lol =) I thought the same thing. Enjoy ya beer's/Drinks guy's but this is a valid discussion =)

 

What White doesn't get 3 years like the Ted Ginn experiment ?

 

No he does but he is a back up QB therefore shouldn't be running gadget plays.

WC died when Brown went down. Let Henne run it full time.

 

Still on the fence about White. He depends on Ronnie because the success of the Wildcat depends on Ronnie and White's playing time depends on the usage of the Wildcat. And if he ever breaks free from the WildPat label, he's left to be -at best- a backup QB. Don't think they should can the guy, but man, that's a 2nd Rd pick we spent on Pat (which probably could have otherwise landed us Boldin in the offseason).

 

The real question is what should be give him 3 years for? What will he even be in 3 years? I have no idea what position he is actually supposed to play in the NFL. We have our quarterback of the future. I never want him coming off the field. Ever.

 

I went over the drives in this thread.

You might want to skip straight to post #37 thread, I don't think I've seen any greater argument for the inclusion of a "Hall of Shame" forum here than that one.

 

On that point, I agree. How does White enter into the picture on a win or loss? He does not.

Hind sight is interesting to think about after a loss. NEWS FLASH- WE WON.

Name the half dozen plays? That would be of interest, not the same old stuff on White.

 

Yup, I cant quite figure out if the HATERs are mad at Henning or White or Both???

Clearly, cant figure out Why, but to all the HATERs here I suspect they can explain it.

 

Am I really drawing the wrong conclusion with this?-

That's 4 of the first 5 posts in the thread.

It's tremendously different.

Pat White needs a period of adjustment towards running the ball. If you have a guy who is going to spend a significant time rushing, he needs time doing so. And you're not really going to get that by giving him one or two snaps in a row.

You've got to get Pat White experience in order for it to be effective, and it isn't likely to be all that effective until you do it.

 

Once again... We've seen quite the opposite with New England. The guy has had rushes where it's clear he has good vision and speed.

You're not going to be able to draw the kind of conclusions you are with anywhere even remotely near the certainty you are until he gets some good repetitions in a row.

The only time I've really seen that happen are in two games, and in both games he had a 6 yard rush on 3rd down in the game winning drive vs. the Jets, and then he had a scoring drive vs. the Patriots where his formation essentially was the scoring drive.

 

You make a great point and I agree. We should give Pat white 3 years before we judge him as a quarterback. During that time he should be allowed to develop much the same we Henne was allowed to develop. Putting him in the game in critical situations so he can hand the ball off to Ricky doesn't support your point. Saying he has the threat of passing while true still doesn't hold any water if he's not allowed to. IMO if we're going to continue to use the wildpat package the run pass ratio should at least be closer to 3:2 (Run/Pass). If we are only using him to Hand it off or Pitch it out then my opinion is keep Henne in and let him run a play.

 

How long are you going to keep bringing up that 1 long run he had? Why do we need to keep running the offense with White? Last time I checked Henne is not injured nor is he sucking up on the field.

Pat White is not needed at this point because he doesn't make a big enough impact to warrant 2-3 snaps a game.

 

Considering the reality of what has happened when Pat White has come on the field from a drive success standpoint, I don't think it's really relevant. Pat White is not killing drives, even when he's not successful. The big loss today hurt, and it's arguably the first real instance it happened in.

Sure, he's certainly got potential in that regard. But you can't half-*** lining him up as a receiver. He's got to have alot of snaps and development in that area, and you've got to make the full time decision to put him there.

Pulling the plug on White as a spread option quarterback at this point is panicky, and short-sighted, and a far greater sin than drafting him and it not working out.

 

First off yes I think you are especially with me. I am more than willing to give the guy some time to develop as a Quarterback. Or a receiver or any other position the Staffs deems is a good fit for him. Right now that's as a QB.

As far as him needing more time in a game to be effective you may be right. Until he is givin more time to prove or disprove this theory know one will really know. As a fan I can say I don't think we have this luxury. We are one lose from being eliminated from the playoffs. His numbers in the wildpat this year are pedestrian at best. Henne is coming along nice. He's making good throws and good decisions. If (I know big word) we had a decent receiver corps his numbers would be much better. I would rather us nurture his development than try and give Pat more attempts to prove he's better than what he has shown.

 

/end thread

 

I mean if you make the argument to make him a WR because he is dangerous in the open field, couldn't you make the same argument with him taking the snap and getting him in the open field?

 

Is your point that if we are not one of those three we don't get an opinion? or is it simply that just your opinion counts?

 

We have Henne. Why put White in? The Colts don't need a Pat White type quarterback. Neither do the Patriots, or Saints, or Chargers, or Cowboys, or Steelers...etc..

I just don't get the need to have Pat White.

 

Usually the latter when someone trots out that tired, old cliche.
I recall hearing it about Dave Wannstedt, Nick Saban and Cam Cameron as well...

 

Thank you.

 

That's the point I was making.

 

It's that anyone who's not actually part of this Franchise, but spouts off about our BUSTS or STUDS, goes beyond opinion when it comes to what it takes for the Miami Dolphins to return to a Championship position.

 

I think you're argument is more about the play calling than anything else. I don't always agree with the play calling, but I always try to stop and think about it for a minute.

Who do I know in comparison to people like Dan Henning, whose been coaching longer than i've been alive. Is he perfect, FAR from it, does he make mistakes, of course; but the way he is looking at a defense in terms of attacking it or just what he see's in general, he is looking at that with 30+ years experience, vs me who has ZERO experience.

Like I said he isn't perfect, and he definitely makes mistakes. Could we gets someone better, probably, there are a lot of talented OC's out there, but will they fit our scheme and are they affordable, all that stuff that you have to take into account.

But I digress. I guess my main point is, I don't think its fair to say someone is a bust or should be traded "even if its for a 7th rounder" when he's been in the league for a few months. Lets just all relax and give the kid a fair chance to develop. If after at least 3 years, he never comes around, whether its just him or our improper use of him, then I am fine with letting him go. But exhaust all possibilites first.

Buckeye, I am not attacking you, so please do not take this personal. I made references to a lot of things said on these boards that you might or might not have said, I was just trying to explain my point of view, after reading some comments on Pat White and the play calling, ect...

 

why would you want to mirror the pats, cowboys, chargers, steelers,etc? you don't want to maybe find a way to be better?

 

Yes and he is getting stuffed now that he is on the field because 9-10 defenders are stacking the box. Until he burns the defense through the air he is irrelevant in this offense.

We can't afford to run White 10-15 times a game.


sorry my opinion bothers you.