Joe, CK made a very good point about this with regards the Giants in another thread. Worth checking out.
That brings up an interesting point...where do you think PJ or Peterson or whatever he is calling himself now days will end up? Personally I think he is a 3 year college guy that ends up in the 15-30, maybe even higher if he continues on his present course. He is not exactly Butkus tackling but IMHO he is fantastic coverage wise, hips, turn, tracking the deep ball, accelerating, break, angles, hands, etc.......and he flat out produces.
High praise. I can see that easily. I am probably discounting him 10 slots or so because of his youth and we do not know what may happen and I am a conservative type..........but yes I can easily get on board with that evaluation. Thanks Boom.
I know he had a huge, Ted Ginn like drop against UGA, but I'm still on the Demaryius Thomas bandwagon. That stiff arm and score on a quick pass gave me a chub.
The difference is that Thomas doesn't drop a lot of balls and Ginn drops as many as he catches. Ted Ginn Jr. has to be the worst pick we have had in our franchise' history. I know we had Jamar Fletcher but Ted Ginn Jr. went #9. Everything is better in hindsight but could you imagine if we would have taken Patrick Willis....Wait Jason Allen was a worst pick.
Of course not, I only made the comparison due to it being an easy catch that cost them the game (even though I don't believe you can pin an entire game on one play, no matter how important it is). I just wonder how many TD's Thomas would have if he played for say, Texas or Houston.
Its not just the dropped passes. Thomas also disappears in games. Much like Ted Ginn. I don't want another decoy. I want a wideout who produces. Thomas averages about 3 catches per game. Compare that to other big name wideouts. Danario Alexander averages 9 catches per game. Jordan Shipley averages 8 catches per game. Golden Tate, Dezmon Briscoe, and Jeremy Williams average 7 catches per game. Mardy Gilyard averages 6 catches per game. Austin Pettis averages 5 catches per game.
Actually Demaryius averages closer to 4 catches a game. However, he is not at all a decoy. Here's a breakdown of all those passing games- GT - 64 completions on 141 att. Demaryius has 44 catches, 68.75% of completions go to him. Cincy - 262 for 383. Gilyard has 75 catches. 28.6% of the completions go to Marty, Mizzou - 259 for 436. Alexander has 107 catches. 41.3% of the completions go to Alexander. ND - 301-447. Tate has 93 catches. 30.9% of completions go to Tate. Texas - 325 for 462. Shipley has 99 catches. 30.5% of completions go to Shipley. Tulane - 234 for 343. Williams has 84 catches. 35.9% of completions go to Williams. Kansas - 320 for 506. Briscoe has 84 catches (doesn't even lead his team). 26.3% of completions go to Briscoe. Boise St - 247 for 383. Pettis has 62 catches (doesn't lead his team either). 25.1% of completions go to Pettis. No player listed above is a bigger part of their teams passing game than Thomas, the closest player is Alexander. Of course all the guys you listed average more catches a game when their teams pass the ball close to 3 times as often as Georgia Tech does (some teams throw it more than 3 times as often even). Not to mention GT is the only team listed above with less than 50% completions on the season (maybe even only one under 60%). When there are three games in a season where the QB has less than 10 throws how could you possibly blame the WR for being "invisible" at times?
Dude- Thomas has 44 catches for 1077 yards and 7 TDs this year. And he's playing in a triple option spread offense that runs the majority of the time. He's averaging almost 25 yards a catch. Get a grip.
Start taking a look at Elon WR Terrell Hudgins, small school yes but so was alot of top WR's in the league. Looks like he could add a little muscle and drop a few 'bad' pounds and be a Boldin, A.Johnson type WR. Nice sleeper pick?
Nice job! Thank you. Its funny how you can form an incorrect impression of a player off a few games. Last year I caught three Georgia Tech games. GT vs FSU - Thomas had 2 catches for 21 yards and zero touchdowns. However now I realize Josh Nesbitt only went 4 for 5. GT vs Georgia - Thomas had 1 catch for 19 yards and zero touchdowns. Nesbitt only went 1 for 6. GT vs LSU in the Chick-Fil-A Bowl - Thomas had 3 catches for 32 yards and zero touchdowns. Nesbitt actually attempted 24 passes in that game but he only completed 8 of them. Needless to say I was less than impressed with Demaryius Thomas by the end of last season. This year I caught the GT/North Carolina game. Thomas had 3 catches for 35 yards and zero touchdowns. Nesbitt went 7 for 11. I also saw the dropped pass against Georgia in highlights. However looking at his stats Demaryius Thomas did have a pretty good season. Looks like he had very good games against Miami, Mississippi State, and Georgia. Plus a decent showing against FSU. He'll be a tough one to evaluate for sure. No Senior Bowl and limited game tape.
Did you just tell me to get a grip? I know his stats but Thomas accumulated 101 yards against Jacksonville State, 174 yards against Mississippi State, 76 yards against Vanderbilt, and 89 yards against Duke. That's a total of 440 yards and 3 touchdowns against weak opponents. 40% of his yardage and almost half his touchdowns are padded. Compare that to a wideout like Golden Tate. He had great games against Michigan, Michigan State, USC, Pittsburgh, Connecticut, and Stanford. I'm the first to admit I was off in my analysis of Demaryius Thomas but don't get fooled by his numbers. Remember none of us are professionals. We're all here to learn and inform.
he's given me 2 chubs this year....saw him go up for a deep paas, elevate, snag the sh%$ out of the ball, and drag a defender to the house...yup, 2 chubs.. lol
Nice to see someone else recognize Hudgins. He's got good size and good hands. Not a burner, but isn't going to go down easy.
I've said multiple times Thomas is one of the hardest WRs to evaluate. But I don't fault him ever for being "invisible."
he's numbe 19 [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSVmi5RUOr8"]YouTube- Elon Football vs. UT Chattanooga 10-28-07[/ame] looks slow and sluggish for a WR to me. Plus he's playing against hobbits. makes it impossible to really evaluate. gonna have to wait till the senior bowl or east west shrine game. has he been invited to any of the all star games
Taylor Price of the Ohio Bobcats. Put this one together myself recently. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIOwxj0oh6Q"]YouTube- WR Taylor Price vs Tennessee Volunteers 2009[/ame]
Ok, let's look at his stats against some worthy opponents: Clemson 3 rec 93 yds 1 TD 31 yds/catch Miami 6 rec 133 yds 1 TD 22 yds/catch Georgia 5 rec 127 yds 1 TD 25 yds/catch Against Virginia Tech he had 1 rec for 51 yards- not great, but not bad. And they're ranked what, 12th in the nation? His numbers are prety consistent accross the board. Golden Tate has had a phenomenal year and he's a higher rated prospect than Thomas. So what's your point? You were off in your analysis of D Thomas, and I wasn't fooled by his numbers. And if I had a choice between Tate and Thomas I'd take Tate, but that doesn't make Thomas any less of a prospect. I think that you're being kind of harsh when it come to Thomas without any real basis for doing so.
I'd take Thomas over Tate. Barely, but I would. The size, speed, and stength that guy has are off the charts. Not in my lifetime have the Dolphins had a WR who could do what he does... unless you count David Boston, which I don't.
I already acknowledged the fact that Demaryius Thomas had very good games against Miami and Georgia. I agree that you could include Clemson too. I merely brought up Tate as a basis of comparison. If that doesn't work for you that's cool. I suppose its fair to say every wideout's stats are padded but some are more padded than others. In the case of Demaryius Thomas I felt that 40% of his stats were padded. That's a pretty high number and enough to be a concern. Not a deal-breaker but a concern. Big time players step up in big time situations. Thomas didn't step up in the Bowl game last year and he didn't step up against Georgia this year. That's another concern. For me anyway. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. I don't believe I'm being harsh at all. Not any more harsh than a GM looking to spend a valuable draft pick would be. We already have Camarillo, Bess, Hartline, Ginn, and Turner on our roster. The only reason to draft a wideout is to upgrade the position right? So the question is would Demaryius Thomas be better than any of the receivers we currently have? I don't know if he is or if he isn't but you've already said he's not better than Golden Tate. I don't believe he is better than Arrelious Benn, Brandon LaFell, Damian Williams, Mardy Gilyard, Jeremy Williams, Danario Alexander, Austin Pettis, or Dezmon Briscoe either. So what does that mean? To me it means Thomas isn't worth a 2nd or 3rd round pick. I would consider him if he slid to the 4th round but that seems unlikely. Also I want to apologize. When I said don't get fooled by Thomas' numbers it was in response to your post. Look at it again and try to be objective. Its a very short post consisting mostly of stats. However we all know stats can be deceiving. You also bring up a very good point about the type of offense that GT runs and then tell me to get a grip for some reason. Take Greg Salas from Hawaii for example. He almost leads the nation (1559 yards) among wideouts but that doesn't make him a 1st round pick. Why? Because nobody is fooled by his numbers. His best games were against Central Arkansas, Washington State, UNLV, Louisiana Tech, Idaho, Utah State, New Mexico State, and Navy. Not exactly powerhouses. Admittedly padded stats are much more of concern with Salas than with Thomas. I only bring up Salas as an example to illustrate my point.
Hardcore, I'm with you in terms of being a fan of D Thomas. But I still would go for Tate before him, with some regrets. Tate is lighting it up, and he has everything I'm looking for in terms of a WR except size. I'd love to get a big WR like Thomas, but I have one problem with him- I don't see great explosion in him. At least I haven't yet. I like him quite a bit, but I'm struggling with that issue. Desmond Briscoe- I haven't seen him play, don't know much about him. But I saw a clip of him posted here recently and within seconds I could say, yup, he's got it. That doesn't mean that he's the right guy- he might be a pain in the *** and Alen made a good comment about his lack of work ethic. But the explosion- it's like looking at a pretty girl, you can tell quickly whether she does it for you or not. Same thing with that clip of the Ohio WR- he looks like a good prospect, but within seconds the explosion warning alarm went off in my head. Maybe I just have to see more, I don't know. But regardless, if we could land D Thomas in the seocnd round I'd be happy with that. But back to the problem of opportunity cost- if we could have D Thomas or Dan Williams- that would be a tough call for me. I'd rather get Benn in the first round, hopefully bury the #1 WR issue, and go get Williams in the second. And maybe a good MLB or OLB falls, you never know. As usual, it's going to be interesting to see how the draft plays out this year.
No offense intended, sorry about the get a grip comment if it rubbed you the wrong way. I didn't mean anything by it. We all have our opinions and genrally speaking I like and respect yours- we just disagree on this one a bit, that's all. How I view my opinions in general- take them and a quarter and that will get you a cup of coffee. In a cheap joint at that. D Thomas- I like the guy, but as I just mentioned in another post I'm concerned about his explosiveness. I would take Thomas over Lafell, not over Tate and it would be a tough call for me in terms of him and Gilyard. I've read plenty about Gilyard and was able to see him last weekend against Illinois. Gilyard strikes me as a talented, efficient gamer- he seems to do everything right. Great hands, good explosion, but his size is an issue- dude has a small frame. But the guy is damn good- I can see him becoming what Ted Ginn was supposed to be, an accomplished WR and KR threat- not quite as fast, but way more productive. When it comes down to it I'd take Bryant first, then Benn, then Tate, then Gilyard or Thomas, then I guess Lafell, who just puzzles me by the way. I don't see much of Dwayne Bowe in him, at least relative to what I've seen. Danario Alexander- I don't know enough to even have a crappy opinion, but I do know that he's been on fire. It's just that he strikes me as a very large, not so fast or quick glider. We already have one of those- Pat Turner. I'm zeroed in on Benn because he can be a one stop shopping magic bullet for what our WR core lacks. That and the fact that Bryant will probably be gone by the time we pick in the 1st round. Anyway, cheers, and we'll see how all of this shakes out eventually. It's just a fun analytics and guessing game- I guess that's why guys like us enjoy the draft.
I'm a Stafford fan. I said last year I'd take him over Bradford, but his decision making isn't there yet. Maybe it will improve as he matures, but he trusts his arm way too much.
I didn't believe Thomas' speed is off the charts. Somewhere in the 4.5 - 4.6 range which is good for a guy his size but not off the charts. I'm becoming very familiar with the wideout because of my debate with Stitches and jim1.
I thought it when he was a freshman at Georgia and I still think it now- Stafford has one of the best arms that I've ever seen. He'll take his lumps along the way, but I think that he has a chance to be very, very good. Guys like Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Bress- on top of everything else they have the mental part of the game down pat. Stafford has a lot to prove in that regard. Brees- I was very, very impressed with him against the Dolphins, and statistically he had one of his crappier games. Boy did we let that one slip through our fingers- actually that can refer to the game and to Brees. I don't care if he's Doug Flutie's height, dude can play.
Thomas might only be an Hback in the NFL. He won't be getting open like he is when he's not in Tech's offense.
Not having seen any ND games this season, I have a question on WR Golden Tate: Does he have legit 4.37-4.45 speed range that I have seen listed around the draft sites is that just a "guess" on their part?
