Ginn and Bess redemption...

You call the knee play "decent?" Jmo but if Bess looked sharp then so did Ted!

Amen brother!

So true!

I just had to go back and reread some of the post (nothing out of the Club section) about Ted and the remarks made about him going into his third year. Please note that I'm not picking on the thread starter here (VO) but it just turned out the way it did using only the mains.

http://forums.thephins.com/showthread.php?t=32679&highlight=ted+ginn

http://forums.thephins.com/showthread.php?t=31840&highlight=ted+ginn

http://forums.thephins.com/showthread.php?t=17048&highlight=ted+ginn

Even Ted's distractors didn't bash him like they now appear to do. It will be nice to see just where Ted's stats end up at the end of this season, to see if he will meet or beat the figures suggested by some.

On a side note its funny how well R. Wayne is thought of as a #1 yet he has only really shined since M. Harrison was cut out of the picture. Since Teddy caught 4 of the 5 passes thrown his way (the 5th being 3 feet behind him - uncatchable) last night it will be interesting to see if he has truly adjusted to Henne's passes. BTW the same seems to be able to be said about Bess and his hands!

 

I dunno, I think a good argument can be made for Bess...some of the catches he's been making are seriously highlight material.

 

Yes

You're making a big deal outta nothing......I see no one in this thread really bashing him. Do you need to make it out that way so you can protect him? "geesh"

 

Ginn had more catches, yards, yards per catch and touchdowns than Bess did last year.

 

Ginn's numbers would have been even better if Henne's two other passes had been on target. He was open on those plays.

 

I think Henne is the X-Factor here
as the IceMan acquires a feel for the game
& the Receivers adjust to his throwing arm
everyone will improve proportionately

the PerfectStorm should create ideal conditions
for airing out the ball from time to time
as defenses hunker down in the box
trying to stop the pounding from the run game

I love it!

 

i dig the haiku analysis. somehow seems to fit with orcas and dolphins

 

I'll go with it was nice to not see these guys dropping the ball this game.

Personally though I seen something different in the passing game last night than in weeks before. Henne looked sooo comfortable in the pocket last night. He didn't have guys in his face, coming in behind him, no where. Henne wasn't forcing the ball out in 3 seconds or less, if it wasn't there he tried to let it develop, if it didn't he got rid of the ball and lived to play the next down. Completely changed the game.

 

Bess had a great game. His hands seem to have come back and he even caught a deep cross. He also was successful gaining some yards on those quick screens. I was most surprised by his play as a punt returner though. Usually he calls that automatic fair catch even when he has space. And after his muffs this year I didn't want him returning punts at all. But last night he was actually aggressive on a couple of returns. He did fair catch one with plenty of space but it was a huge improvement from earlier in the season.

Ginn also had a great game. As a kick returner he's making an argument for being the best in the league. Teams fear him and he's accounting for 15 -20 yards better field position on every return compared to where we were starting out earlier this year. As a WR he made a couple of tough catches. Those were bad throws by Henne where the WR bailed him out (same with that one Bess catch). It's been a while since any of our WRs did anything to make Henne look good.

 

I don't know that we have seen Henne in charge of a game before tonight. Without being pulled for the Wildcat every few plays he seemed to take the field with a different purpose - like he was in charge and this was his team.

If there is any silver lining to the Ronnie injury - I think it means we can let Henne go out and win or lose us a few games. Good to see the training wheels come off.

 

Biggest problem with Ginn is that he is not progrssing at the position he is getting paid to play, WR. He's had a few good plays at WR but over all he has been HORRIBLE. AND while he had a could great runbacks against the Jets... That and the bomb (1st Jets game) is pretty much all he has done this year. On the flip side he has lost (or I should say helped us lose) more the a couple of games with his dropped balls tipped passes for TD's and so on.

Overall Teddy has had a really bad year.... Having said that, I hope that last night was the turning point for his career and that he starts to be more productive from here on out.

The guy is a Dolphin so I will always support him.

 

You realize Bess is 13 career receptions behind Ginn right now? And Bess didn't start until Cam got hurt.

Rookie year vs Rookie year

Bess
54 Catches
554 Yards

Ginn
34 Catches
420 Yards

The one area Ginn has clearly outperformed Bess is TD's 9 TD's to 1 by Bess. Also, Teddy has never lost a fumble (in the NFL). Lastly, Teddy has a better YPC avg but that is to be expected because of their roles in the offense.

 

Not sure how anybody can take Ginn to task after that game.
Equally, very disappointed some want to take Ginn bashers to task (Of course I am of the latter).
Ginn was pretty good at WR and did the small things very very well.
Couple that with his returns and he did indeed have a very steady game. Very good for him. Let's hope he can have 2 or 3 in a row.
Bess seems to remember the ONLY reason he made the team in the first place is his incredible hands.
The guy knows how to get open, and while he's not gonna outrun anybody finds space, makes a nice target and has hands like Chris freakin Carter.
Truth is, we needed both of these guys to dramtically step up, and BOTH equally did.
Good game Mr Ginn. Good to see a good guy have a good game.

 

I don't understand this argument that he hasn't progressed at all. In terms of getting open and finding holes - he is LIGHT years ahead of last year. He was never open this year - he seems to always be open this year. His routes still aren't perfect like Cam or Bess - but he has a knack for getting open.

The argument against his hands is well noted - but was never an issue before this year. If the argument is that he hasn't progressed at all - I have to argue that he has progressed significantly at getting open. The problem is that his hands have regressed. But a WR suddenly dropping balls doesn't strike me as something that will last.

I definitely understand a lot of the criticism of Ginn and the anger that comes with failed expectations. He definitely has the ability to be a much better player and needs to pull his head out of his *** and start making the catches we all know he can make.

 

henne:
which came first the chicken or the egg?
throw on a side of bacon & couple sliced tomatoes
& you've got nice little breakfast going for ya'
the IceMan is the X-Factor
it is as it should be

 

Comparing their rookie years doesn't really prove much? Bess is only in this league because he was a polished WR with limited potential. Ginn came into this league with high potential but very raw. I don't think any of us expected Ginn to put it together his rookie year.

Then again, none of us expected it to take him this long.

Either way - great game for both. We have put together an entire team of role players - now we just need to sprinkle some playmakers in and we will be a force!

 

he was in charge against the jesters in the monday nighter too i thought. i think there are games where henne feels confident and a touch of cockiness comes into his play. agree that the silver lining here will be our offense being forced to figure out how to throw. the days of relying on the run game are over. time to figure out how to use the pieces we have to their maximum potential

 

I agree with everything except Ginn and the redemption part.He merely did was he is supposed to do.Catch balls.The one off the knee was nice.
Bess getting his confidence back last night was impressive to me.I think he's a better receiver than Ginn and he showed why with his savvy, getting open on that 3rd down, and that great stab on the sidelines.

 

that made me laugh

 

It is also better because Bess cannot get open on a route beyond 15 yards with any consistancy due to the fact he is really slow.

 

Isn't that what Bess is supposed to do?

 

Sure,your right about that.They are both WR's in the NFL.They should catch anything when their hands touch the ball.
There is a BIG difference between Ginn and Bess though.
Draft position and where they were drafted.Bess wasn't remember.
And what the talent difference of the two "should have" been coming into the league.Whether or not we drafted Ginn in the 9 spot he would of been drafted in the 1st round anyway.Look at the route Bess took to get where he's at now.Bess stumbled a bit for us this season,but last nights game showed me he's back on track.

Ginn will always be Ginn when it comes to being a reciever in this league.

 

So Bess just stumbles and Ginn will always be Ginn. I understand now.

 

Draft position has nothing to do with it. Posters bashed Ginn because he was next in line. Yet everyone gives Bess a free pass. He was just as bad as Ginn, but Ginn is the one who was resposnible for us losing.

I'm not sure I follow you when you say Ginn will always be Ginn.

 

I thought they were perfectly thrown....very safe throws that Ginn could drop straight to the ground and cradle catch. When you're throwing to Ginn over in that area of the field, that's exactly what you wanna see. You'll get no YAC of course but in that situation it's the money play. He can either go low with it like he did, lead him and let Ginn make a play in some traffic or over the outside shoulder and let Ginn catch it with his hands and tight rope the side line. The last two just aren't Teddy's game...

And this isn't me bashing him, I'm happy to get any kind of positive contributions from the receivers right now. We desperately need it. I'm just saying we need to quit asking too much of him and just take what we can get. He's getting us nice field position and he if he could just chip in with nothing more than a few first downs a game, that would probably be enough to help him stick around.

 

I was gonna say.
I bet there are only a handful of recievers in the league that hold onto that. Millen mentioned it last night and he was right. If henne leads him instead of high, hard and behind him, Bess is in the endzone.
Regardless, it was a great improv by both Henne and Bess, and those plays will get better with time.
Once again, I can't believe anybody would belittle either Ginn or Bess after that game.

 

just saying

5 losses.......16 catches.....157 yards.......9.8 avg....21 yards long
5 wins.........7 catches.......93 yards........13.3 avg....53 yards long

asset or liability ????????????

 

just saying

5 losses.......17 catches.....170 yards.......10.0 avg....24 yards long
5 wins.........11 catches.......111 yards........10.1 avg....18 yards long

asset or liability ????????????

Spoiler

Greg C

just saying

5 losses.......26 catches.....209 yards.......8.03 avg....21 yards long
5 wins.........20 catches.......188 yards........9.4 avg....25 yards long

asset or liability ???????????

Spoiler

Davone Bess

PS:

Spoiler

We're 6-3 when Ginn scores a TD, 0-1 when Bess does, and 2-2 when Cam does. Just saying.

 

I disagree. The perfect throw would have been away from the DB's side and in front of the WR. Henne missed low and behind. That's actually his pattern. Periodically he'll hit some inaccurate stretches and they are usually low and behind. That's what he did there and Ginn bailed him out, especially on the one he pinned against his leg. There is no way Henne or anybody else would say that was a perfect pass.

Bess also bailed out Henne a couple of times with some nice catches which were, ironically, high.

 

What is this even supposed to prove? When Ginn doesn't put up stats we win? What kind of backward logic is that, and what point is it even trying to argue? If you watched the Jets' games you know that Ginn was a critical factor in those wins, that's inarguable.

 

Forget about Ginn and just look at the stats for the whole unit. Forecast what they should have by seasons end.

We desperately need some more scoring threats at WR for Henne. Joey "the bumbling giant" Haynos, is on pace to out score the entire unit. That makes my head hurt to even consider.

 

Ginn was really close to getting clear in that long return up the left sideline. He was a big contributor in this win. Hopefully, it will help restore his confidence, because IMO, the drops were mostly due to him pressing too much after the first couple. His hands were never a topic of discussion before this year.

I'll bet Ginn takes at least one more kick all the way this season.

 

Actually, I'd say for Bess it would be an anomaly. Snafu being an acronym for Situation Normal All F**cked Up, would be used more appropriately for something that continually goes wrong. For Bess to drop passes would not be the norm.

 

Ginn led the team in receptions last season. Granted, had he not gotten hurt, Camarillo probably would have.

 

and hopefully that will be the silver lining in the Ronnie injury. We will have to throw and the receiving corps if it doesnt want to be the goats will have to step up. Henne also. This could benfit us greatly in the long term. Just as Will Allen getting hurt helped us speeding up Vontae's learning curve Ronnie getting hurt should force Henne into developing a better relationship with his receivers. Instead of throwing 20times he'll start throwing 30. This can only help us for next year. One we may develop some good QB/WR combo thats not apparent now and two we will definitely know who needs to be replaced next year and upgraded. I think its still unclear due to the many factors of having a new QB, a run first philosophy, conservative playcalling, etc.. All of that should go out the door and with it will ccome a clearer picture of just what we have

 

It is not supposed to prove anything. I was looking at the stats on NFL.com they had them broken down by wins an d loses. It was odd to see The production that Ginn did have didn't really help us win. The games he had little to no production we won. So is he an asset or liability.....the stats seem to suggest.....well what do they say exactly?

 

we need a #1 WR

 

qft