No disrespect, but you apparantly haven't seen Spiller play very often. I on the other hand have. You guys can nitpick back and forth that Spiller is different from Harvin b/c Percy is listed as a WR and CJ is listed as a RB, but the bottom line is they are both serious playmakers.... and playmakers is what we need. Percy was not a polished route running WR coming out of UF. He was an Xfactor that was used all over the field. In 3 years, Harvin had 133 receptions, compared to 194 runs. In 2008, he had more rushing attempts, rushing yards, and rushing TDs than receiving. Harvin career Receiving: 133 catches....1929 yards.... 13TDs Harvin career Rushing..: 194 Runs........1851 yards.... 19TDs Spiller Receiving: 105 catches....1184 yards.... 9TDs Spiller Rushing..: 503 runs........2909 yards.... 24TDs The disparity isn't as much as you're tying to make it seem, and if you've watched Spiller play, you'd see that Clemson will split him out wide and run wheel routes etc with him b/c he has solid hands, can catch downfield, and is faster than Harvin. CJ is being used more and more as a major big play receiving threat. In fact, Spiller's receiving longs of 83, 82, 68, 63 is superior to Percy's 80, 66, and 67. Riddle me that. CJ is MUCH more than just a RB and can be used ALL over the field. End of story.
Good points, but as an example Ronnie Brown is fast, has great hands and can split out wide- that doesn't make him a Wide Receiver. The Dolphins need a Wide Receiver first and foremost- the multitasking is great, but secondary. Post #78 item #2 pretty much sums it up. Harvin is a multi talented WR. Spiller is a multi talented RB. Also, there is no lack of Clemson games televised down here in south Florida and yes, I've seen the guy play- but not nearly as much as some of you. He still strikes me as a very, very good receivng RB, not a full time WR, end of story. It's just my opinion, and my thoughts on the subject are pretty much exhausted at this point. BTW, Ponder made a bautiful touch throw to the left back corner of the endzone, should have been a TD. Good chatting with all of you, bye for now. edit: for the heck of it I tried to research the issue a little. Mel Kiper (whom I like, by the way) thinks very highly of Spiller- I thought that he said that Spiller was also the best WR prospect coming out- which shocked me- but that was some guy on the Seahawks website: "But for me the undoubted #1 at either position is C.J. Spiller. He's taken on greater responsibility with Clemson this year and although the stats aren't mind blowing (864 rushing yards through four games with a 4.2 average per carry), he's shown a flexibility that a team like Seattle would value. The Seahawks want balance on offense and a back who won't sell their play calling - Spiller fits the bill." ESPN's Mel Kiper offered some thoughts on Spiller this week: "I get asked a lot what I see in Spiller and one thing I know is this: The ability to put six points on the board in an instant in a variety of ways (he has scored a touchdown as a rusher, receiver, kickoff returner and punt returner this season) is what makes him so highly thought of in NFL circles. While his yards per carry for the season is rather pedestrian, he is averaging 15.7 yards per catch, 37.8 yards on kick returns and 30.0 yards on punt returns." - Mel Kiper, ESPN Hey, if I'm wrong it won't be the first time. Cheers. http://seahawksdraft.blogspot.com/2009/10/mel-kiper-on-clemsons-cj-spiller.html
Jim, I understand where you're coming from, but you're also using stats. I've watched almost every Clemson game the past 4 years <notice the Signature below>. I don't need stats. LOL. 4.2 YPC....can you tell me about his offensive line?....how good or bad they are at run blocking this year and last? He's also playing for a 1st year 30 yr old OC and 1st yr wet behind the ears coach. There is no concern about him playing in a 2 back system bc we use a 2 back system, and if CJ is on our team we will find ways to get him involved. Just bc we didn't use Cobbs much does not mean the same for Spiller. Dez Bryant will more than likely be off the board when we pick which would make it very difficult for any team to take a WR over CJ when they are sorely lacking playmakers. Ronnie is not fast. He is fast for a big guy, but he is nothing like Spiller. CJ has world class speed who is Chris Johnson fast and quick. If you split Ronnie out, a defense can put a LB on him. If you put a LB on Spiller, you lose. Posted via Mobile Device
Man.... I hope Jhavid Best is ok!!! He looks like he broke his back on his TD leap where he was about 12 feet in the air and landed on his back with his knees around his head. Scary!!!! Posted via Mobile Device
Fine, make it a DB then. It's a mood point bc we can't have Ronnie in 2 places at one time, and he's not a 3rd down back either. Posted via Mobile Device
If Ronnie's such a mismatch in the passing game, why don't we use him as such more often? Posted via Mobile Device
Ummm.... I think I lost his number. We'd be much more effective if we could keep Ronnie in the backfield while moving CJ around IMO. Side note: another Todd called CJ the most explosive player in the country: Blackledge. Just sayin. Posted via Mobile Device
Spiller is absolutely nothing like Reggie Bush. Reggie is very shifty, but slows down a LOT to make his moves running the ball. This allows a defense to converge on him quickly. He also has absolutely no ability to lower the shoulder and get a few extra yards. Spiller on the other hand doesn't slow down making his cuts, he makes them with authority. Always moving forwards even as he moves to the side. Also he has very good balance and can lower the shoulder to finish a run. Spiller wins as a back in pretty much every aspect that Reggie fails in. And trust me I hate Clemson right about now.
I think Todd knows what I was going for. Side note: I think Reggie needs to be moved to WR "full time." I actually think he could excel there.
Alex, Stitch was just tryin to bust my balls about the Reggie comment. Just bc he says something doesn't necessarily mean he believes it. He looks for holes in arguments for fun. LOL. The trick is knowing when he's serious or not.
FSU had like a 15 yard head start. Side note: CJ is getting very frustrated with his porous OLine. I think they need to be auctioned off on Ebay as a spaghetti strainer with a lifetime warranty!
I think you're right about Reg. He's like a "straight guy" who enjoys showtunes and Steel Magnolias. Just come out of the closet already and get it over with will ya!
So by deduction I guess that means that CJ would make a good WR, too. I hear a whip cracking. Point to Todd.
Gees, I can't believe Clemson snuck in a receiver also wearing #28 to catch a down field 56 yard TD pass! The refs didn't catch that?
Its very early but these are my thoughts. Assuming we don't have a Top Ten pick which would rule out McClain, Berry, Suh, Bryant, and Spiller. 1st Round 1. ILB - Brandon Spikes or Sean Weatherspoon 2. S - Chad Jones or Morgan Burnett 3. DT - Marvin Austin or Terrence Cody 4. WR - Brandon LaFell 5. TE - Jermaine Gresham 6. OLB - Jerry Hughes 2nd Round 1. ILB - Rennie Curran or Eric Norwood 2. S - Reshad Jones, DeAndre McDaniel, or Nate Allen 3. DT - D'Anthony Smith 4. WR - Arrelious Benn or Golden Tate 5. TE - Ed Dickson 6. OLB - A.J. Edds 3rd Round 1. ILB - Quan Sturdivant or Perry Riley 2. S - Deunta Williams, Myron Rolle, or Justin Woodall 3. DT - Dan Williams or Lamarr Houston 4. WR - Dezmon Briscoe 6. OLB - Jermaine Cunningham Later rounds ILB - Mike McLaughlin S - Crezdon Butler DT - Al Woods WR - Seyi Ajirotutu Also I know we're stacked at cornerback but it would be hard to pass up Javier Arenas if he somehow doesn't go in the 1st and slides to the 2nd round.
What are the guru's thoughts on Clay Nurse the DE from Illinois? The games I saw him play (Ohio St and Gophers) Has been a terror. This guy owned Pryor 1 on 1 and made our Oline look silly. He was wrecking ball against the Gophers today so I ask where does he project as a OLB? Seems to be a pretty solid talent.
I have casually watched Clemson play, I haven't analyzed them as you and some others have. As to their OL, it doesn't seem like anything special, but the one interior OL is supposed to be good, if I see them again this year I'd like to key on him. I also liked how the Clemson QB threw the ball, I don't know his name. I'll have to look again because I don't recall what stats I used, as per your comment. And Ronnie Brown is fast, ran what, about a 4.4. at the combine? Not sure what he lost if anything because of the ACL injury. And you're right, that doesn't make him Spiller fast. I'm not knocking Spiller. I'm simply saying that he's a great pass catching RB, not a WR. That 58 yd TD was a good play- but it doesn't make him a WR. That being said, dude is a play maker, you're right. Will he get drafted early? Yes. Could I see the Dolphins taking him if their WR, ILB or whoever else they might want is gone? Yes. Given the choice between Harvin and Spiller would I take Harvin? Yes, because Harvin is primarily a WR, trained as a WR, and Spiller is not. And I would imagine that Harvin still has plenty to do in terms of learning the nuances of being split out wide. Again, just my opinion. You guys made some great points about Spiller, and you watch him far more than I do- your opinions are well heeded on this end. Cheers.
As I've said several times in this thread, I'm not sure I'd take Spiller either. But he would be in the discussion. And I don't believe the Dolphins would remove him from the short list b/c he's listed as a RB and not as a WR. Personally, I think that Bryant and even Gresham are higher on my board. I probably wouldn't have any ILB above Spiller though b/c I expect that a good one will be available later in the draft. Also FA activity at WR or TE could also push Spiller up. Basically, Spiller is on my short list and I expect he's on the Dolphin's list as well. That doesn't necessarily make him the top choice but he's on the list.
Ditto to what you guys just said about CJ. Not our top priority, but should still be high on our board. Posted via Mobile Device
A lot of interesting names for sure on there. Ryans would far and away be my number one choice. Some of those guys have signed extensions though I believe. Tatupu and D.J Williams for sure. I think Ruud did but I cant find anything at the moment.
And the list of free agents is starting to shrink. What a surprise. D.J. Williams signed http://www.milehighreport.com/2008/9/7/609307/denver-broncos-sign-lb-d-j Lofa Tatupu signed http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2004297404_webhawk21.html DeMeco Ryans has already entered negotiations. http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?STORY_ID=5214
DeMeco is a 4-3 linebacker, I dont think he would do very well here. Think Jonathan Vilma in a 3-4 vs 4-3, HUGE difference. I was hoping for DJ, but I guess thats gone.
Already in negotiations and now that he's hurt he's got nothing else to focus on. If I was a betting man I would say the Browns get 'er done. Wait a minute. I am a betting man. Anybody want to bet me that the Browns sign D'Qwell Jackson to a contract extension? http://www.kffl.com/player/13782/NFL
That's from July. Given his injury and lack of a contract at this point, he may be willing to test the market.
I have a feeling that Pat White is supposed to be our CJ Spiller. In other words he is supposed to be our explosive playmaker on offense. With that in mind I believe the chances of us drafting Spiller are very slim. Extremely slim. The more I think about it the more I feel inside linebacker is the priority. However if McClain and Spikes are off the board I would draft Jerry Hughes over Weatherspoon even though Hughes would play outside linebacker. He is just too talented to pass up.
I don't agree at all about White being our play maker. This offense needs play makers for Henne to use. If we are ever going to be SB contenders again it will be b/c we get more play makers on offense. If we keep trying to go cheap on WR and TE, etc (3rd rd picks or later and/or no big FAs) we'll probably end up being as successful as we were under Wanny. Defense and a running game can only get you as far as an early exit out of the playoffs.
What can I say? I was too busy working as a scouting consultant for captains during pick-up dodgeball, kickball and softball games during P.E. class (tip: in games where they force a certain number of girls on both teams, make the most athletic girl in the class your top priority as soon as you chew through the kids that look like they should be in high school already).
I totally agree that we need a #1 wideout. I don't believe tight end is as important but I certainly understand why some people do. Tony Gonzalez, Antonio Gates, and Jason Witten can be difference-makers. That still doesn't change my opinion that the front office views Pat White as an explosive playmaker much like CJ Spiller.
