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Does anybody still think Ginn over Quinn was a bad idea?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Pauly, Oct 14, 2009.

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  1. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    Knowing what I know now of Peterson, no. At draft time, every player is the next Adrian Peterson, Dan Marino, Jerry Rice, etc. So I would go for team need over luxury. :wink2:
     
  2. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    He was a consensus 1st team All-American, and the Butkus and Lambert award winner in 2006. How is that overshadowed? It's obvious people outside the SEC knew he was good.
     
  3. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, if I were in Muellers shoes, coming off of a 6-10 season where the "D" was top 7 or so in the NFL, and Thomas coming off of a pro bowl year, Willis just would have made no sense, not with Carter, Holliday, Traylor, JT all over 30 yrs old and with a mediocre at best Wr Corps.

    Booker and Chambers were not striking fear in anyone.



    Oh I agree, I'd seen Willis and he reminded me alot of those great Miami U ILB's who are sure things in the NFL, he was large, physical, and had a high motor.

    But Ginn and Okoye would have made more sense strategically speaking, Okoye for new blood on the Dline, Ginn for more big play ability, we had the caretaker Qb in T Green so Quinn never made sense to begin with.
     
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  4. finserg

    finserg Well-Known Member

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    Were losing a valuable spot by him being here and doing nothing so yes it was a bad idea.
     
  5. Crappy Tipper

    Crappy Tipper AKA Hero13

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    My happiness with the way things worked out had nothing to do with Quinn or Ginn and everything to do with the fact that I am happy we ended up with Pennington last season and Henne for the future.
     
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  6. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    Which means he's an elite player....

    John Offerdahl made the prow bowl every year on a defense that forced Marino to score 40 to win.
     
  7. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    I understand that, but he was underrated and yes, overshadowed by "bigger" names. He won the Butkus award because he deserved it, not because of a popularity contest (which has been the case with such awards in the past).

    I paid very close attention to the draft that year solely because of Willis, and I'll tell you, the guy did not get as much attention, prior to the Combine and his play in Mobile, as did his counterparts at that position. It just was not the case. He deservedly won the Butkus, but many websites rated him 2nd or 3rd fiddle afterward.

    People affiliated with NCAA football knew who he was, but fans did not. Up until he had 15 or so tackles at the Sr. Bowl and ran a fast 40 (4.39 and 4.38, respectively), he was not "popular". Nowhere near as popular as Laurinitis and Posluszny.

    Maybe some of you here knew him because you pay attention to college ball, but many did not until the waning days before the draft. And even then, he was rated below other LBers.

    You can laud all of his accomplishments now, but I remember posting them prior to the draft on another popular Dolphins' MB because not many people knew about him. I felt as if I had to show his accomplishments as a player to substantiate why I wanted Miami to choose him that year. Even then, many were skeptics. He only started to gain momentum up til the very end.

    Like I said, I paid great attention to the draft that year, and he was definitely overshadowed by the more popular names.
     
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  8. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    I dont remember too many on here(or was it FH at the time?) wanted Quinn all that bad, Id say it was split. Quinn was inconsistent in college and had some question marks at the time. He didnt seem like a QB that was NFL ready at the time. He looked like he needed alot of grooming to do. On one hand you had those that wanted Quinn and those that wanted Willis/Okoye/Leon Hall/Bowe. No one wanted Ted Ginn. Brady Quinn seemed destined to be our franchise QB however when he dropped to us at number 9. When the pick was annouced, everything went quiet for a minute like, wtf did we just do? Then it got angry, real angry. And then some people liked the pick, saying it was a think outside the box type of pick. Of course, we all know the story, Cam sealed his fate when announcing what type of player the Dolphins picked: a great kick returner. So far, Ginn has shown flashes of being just that, but as a WR, his impact has been minimal at best. Hopefully, after the Jets game, he has the confidence to go out there and just freaking play.
     
  9. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    remember how that happened?? I was pissed that Camarrillo jumped on him after the score
     
  10. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    you pop in and say one line stuff like this at every opportunity.. but never back it up with any content.. just smarmy one line disruptive comments.
     
  11. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    That is an incorrect statement.. many wanted Ginn, including Simon and myself.
     
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  12. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    I wouldn't say many, but a significant minority.

    My recollection is that a lot of people got caught up in the Brady Quinn hype, especially when it looked like he would be a top 5 pick and we wouldn't have a realistic shot at him.

    I was just glad we skipped on Quinn, the playing the big fish whilst still in a small pond made me very nervous about him.
     
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  13. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    I really dont recall, the consensus seemed to be either for Quinn, or a top defensive player.

    Many draft experts had Ginn going in the late teens and 20s in the first round. Some even had him going in the early 2nd.

    A reach is a reach, and still hasnt yet come close to his potential.
     
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  14. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    +3

    We needed speed on offense and a returnman, Ginn fit the bill perfectly. Willis was intriguing, but as padre pointed out, our defense was top notch at the time and I felt Ginn was more of a priority.
     
  15. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    I wanted Bowe or Meachem (didn't know he was hurt at the time), given I didn't expect Quinn to be there. I figured we wouldn't take Bowe or Meachem just because it seemed a little early for a WR. I never expected Ginn (though people had posted much that pointed in that direction), especially not with Quinn there. But I never expected Ginn to last beyond pick 20. I figured he'd go between 15 and 20 for sure.
     
  16. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    I think it was pretty evenly split between Ginn, Quinn and Okoye from what I remember.

    And there were some who had him going before us (Washington?). There was also talk after the draft that the Rams were set to take him in the early teens, but we picked him before they had the chance. I think his stock was low because of the injury, no he wasn't as polished as some of the other WR's, but he presented better value for us at the time.

    He didn't have the proper QB to take advantage of his skill set.

    Now he does :up:
     
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  17. byroan

    byroan Giggity Staff Member Administrator Luxury Box

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    I also wanted Ginn at #9. The only reason they had him out of the top 10 was because of his foot injury.
     
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  18. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    That team had GAPING holes on both sides of the ball including many key positions. Cameron, Mueller and Huizenga were somehow under the impression that they had a contender. They felt they were in a position to gamble on luxury picks, when in fact they needed to be focusing on core positions along both lines.

    And not to mention how much it should make you cringe when the coach comes out after using your top ten pick and says I look forward to seeing the excitement this young man will bring to the team............returning kicks.
     
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  19. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    A lot us, including myself, felt that way. On one had, we needed a franchise QB, after the musical chairs of QBs that came our way after Marino. Brady Quinn however, just didnt seem to fit that bill. I didnt buy into the hype, I always thought with all those weapons Quinn had, he still didnt wow me in his college career. He, like his draftmate JaMarcus Russell, both looked like they were destined to be major busts. But on the other hand, I was willing to give him a shot if somehow he lasted until 9 but it didnt seem likely. When he did indeed fall that far(and even further), it was almost like we were supposed to draft Quinn, like it was a certainty. I wouldve been happy with either Quinn or a stud defensive guy or WR, even though there didnt seem to be too many options at #1 WR at our spot. Bowe and Meachem looked like solid 2's, and I didnt think we would use our first pick on a posession reciever, especially given Cam's vertical offense. When Ginn was taken, I was shocked, but not pissed. I was willing to give CaMueller the benefit of the doubt, maybe they and the rest of the league knew something about Quinn that the rest of us didnt. With Ginn, I didnt like the fact that he was a project type of WR, which to me is worse than taking a possesion WR first. And being a glorified KR in college and an average WR didnt quite impress me. But I was willing to give it a shot. Three seasons later hes showed flashes of being pretty good but nowhere near elite but also quite inconsistent. Im not sure if he'll ever be what we need him to be, but he's still go time to change that. Its up to him.
     
  20. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    Great job of taking that out of context, try and convince me you aren't smart enough to understand what he meant.. this is just like that lame *** "family" crap.
     
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  21. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    That was logical though. It generally takes WR's a couple of years to really learn the NFL routes and work their way up the depth chart. Ginn was an excellent returnman in college and ST's is probably the easiest area for a rookie to break in. If Cam had set the fan hopes too high and Ginn didn't beat out Chambers or Booker, then what?

    He was trying to emphasize what Ginn would bring to the team immediately, yet folks thought he was saying "Umm yeah, we just spent the #9 pick on a returnman. In round two we're going to select the best damn long snapper available.". That wasn't the case. :wink2:
     
  22. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I can't say what everyone wanted, but I can say a bunch of our own draft experts say that Ginn may be the pick. I can also say that a bunch of the supposed draft experts say Jamarcus Russell should go #1, and that Casserly was an idiot for picking Mario over Reggie. i can further say that Adam Schefter who, when someone said Quinn was our guy, said, "Not so fast" and we picked Ginn. Then his sources said that Ginn was going in the next pick.

    I agree, he has yet to reach his potential, but now we shall see. Henne is a QB, he wants to go deep and we only have one guy who can get deep (damn that's a lotta homo eroticism in these football terms ... I feel like I'm on the set of Top Gun)
     
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  23. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    That's another one that bugs the snot out of me.
     
  24. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    Take note that I am neither a Ted Ginn defender nor do I want him cut, but the fact remains that he's the #1 WR now. Even though its not his fault he was the #9 pick, hes got to step it up. Concentrate more. Study more film. Practice longer.Do whatever it takes. I think hes a good kid, but Im not so sure he has that competitive fire thats required in order for him to be successful. If not, Devone Bess is still looking like the best WR on the team, and with us needing a consistent deep threat, thats not a good thing.
     
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  25. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    To be fair, the "family" crap was used quite well by Michael Silver over at Yahoo

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-32questions1013009&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

    he includes a link to the video of it too. That's pretty funny
     
  26. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    Well like I pointed out earlier, he didn't have any QB to help him with his game. Instead he was asked to become a more well rounded WR and learn the position from scratch. In college he was a burner, starting last year he was getting a crash course in the rest of the position. I think he'll be fine now that he has had a year of learning the WR spot and now that he has Henne.

    I actually think our QB situation over the past 3 years might have made him a better all around player than he would have been if he just came in as a deep threat.
     
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  27. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    there were quite a few people in the Willis corner. He was probably the 2nd or 3rd favorite pick pre draft. The names I remember being badied about were Quinn, Ginn, Willis and Okoye by a few. I really dont remember other players names as having more than a few supporters. I think you're right in that people who followed college ball knew he was good but maybe the casual fan didnt
     
  28. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    didnt CK or Boomer predict we would draft Ginn before the draft?
     
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  29. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    payton was on the 85 bears lol
     
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  30. byroan

    byroan Giggity Staff Member Administrator Luxury Box

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    What's funny is viewing a related video at .31 seconds.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzQh9lK5Xuk"]YouTube - Miami doesn't want Quinn[/ame]

    "The Jet fans love it"

    I'm sure they loved Ginn torching Revis.
     
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  31. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    Like Sick said, 54 could have made Willis even better, just like Pennington mentoring Henne.

    I wanted Quinn, I was so sick of the garbage we called QBs since Marino retired. It sure looks like he isnt the guy.



    I dont think he'd admit that Henne is better than Quinn.
     
  32. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    This has absolutely nothing to do with that "lame *** family crap".......that family crap was was/is a stupid joke.

    There's nothing funny about using a top ten pick that you view firstly as a return specialist, when you have a team full of gaping holes and obvious needs at key positions.

    Pointing that out fact doesn't make me a smart ***, make me a Ginn "basher" or justify being associated with the "Ginn's family" crowd. Like I said before, this isn't an indictment of Ginn.

    Cameron and Mueller went way out on a limb on this pick. And I would be willing to bet that more people would agree with that statement than not. If for no other reason than you don't EVER see a team use a top ten pick on player who's claim to fame is on special teams. And if you're taking a WR in that range, he had better be what you would consider an almost sure thing, blue chipper.

    At this point where he was drafted should just be irrelevant. It's certainly not something that's on my mind when I'm posting about him no more than it is when I'm watching him play.

    Referring to what Cameron said to sell the fans on his selection, wasn't an attempt by me to dip in to the infinite Ginn family joke book. What he said leads to one of the two questions that should be used to question that pick.

    1. Did you really just use the number nine overall pick on a guy that jumped out at you as a kick returner first?

    2. Is this a WR that jumps out at you with elite talent and tools?
    A top ten pick type WR?

    The things Cameron said about Ginn's family was just some corny stuff you just shake your head at. But telling us that we're gonna love what our top ten pick does for us in the return game was another of those wtf moments in our draft history. What you highlighted wasn't my attempt at a joke.....well much :knucks:
     
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  33. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I am kind of piling folks together because some MBs have a plethora of "casual" fans. And there's nothing against it, but those fans are likely to jump on the bandwagon of Mel Kiper's top 20 before actually doing any real research. Even Kiper had Willis a mid-late first, which is fine, but I just knew the guy would be a player. He is definitely showing it. And Singletary is using him in different capacities. He rarely did any real "covering" in college, and now is showing his ability to shadow his guy pretty well.

    Oh, the "what ifs"!
     
  34. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    Everyone brags if the guy they wanted turned out to be a stud... I'm sure we could research every poster here and find out that they wanted to draft a guy that turned out to be a complete bust...

    But yeah, the "what if" game is pointless.
     
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  35. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    Very interesting the dearth of Brady Quinn supporters now. I can understand the Willis boosters thumping their chests, and they have good reason to do so.

    IMO Teddy was used mainly as a decoy in his first two years, so it will be interesting to see what happens with him actually integrated into the offense as a weapon to be used.
     
  36. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    well done, you convinced me :wink2:
     
  37. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Of course, but before that he was on some very bad Bears team.
    I remember Sweetness being a one man offense for awhile
     
  38. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    My thoughts too.:up: Mueller and Wayne hired Cam to build up the offense here. We were what? a 17 point average in 06 and all the talk was that if Cameron could work his magic and get our offensive average up over 23 points per game those close games we lost because of no offense would be won. Besides they were never going to let Cameron mess with the defense because they thought it was great so picking Willis at 9 would have been seen (by them) as a waste. If the defense had not imploded and we weren't hit by the injury bug we would have had a much better year than 1-15. Of course it was bound to happen, looking back, all the signs were there. I sure hope Cam has learned his lesson because I, for one, think hes a heck of a coach, offensive wise!

    As for Teddy, you could see just how catching that pass built his self-esteem. Imho this kid will knock himself out if shown some love and I really revised my thinking of Henne after watching him react with Ted. They will be a great pair you just watch.:up:
     
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  39. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

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    no, but Willis over Ginn would have been very nice !
     
  40. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    yeah but I don' t think thats even remotely comparable to the teams sanders played on.
     

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