PFT: Dolphins may use Ginn on returns again

Which is what you and your fellow Ginn apologists are doing.....because up to this point, he's done very little.

The guy has 4 TD receptions in 34 games.....the much maligned Chris Chambers, had 7 TD's in his rookie season alone. His QB?......Jay Fielder

It amazes me that you're actually blaming someone for "ignoring" things.....when ignoring things is the only way one could possibly defend the guy.

 

ive ignored nothing. Ive admitted countlessly you would like to see him come down with those catches. I have said there were extenuating circumstances. You have ignored all of those in an effort to prove your point. Its amazing how quickly you can seem to forget anything you have said.
Its also amusing how you just try to generalize people by calling them apologists, then criticize the way others argue. Perhaps you should read a book or two about debate.

 

But it's ok for myself and others to be called Ted Ginn "bashers".....

Would you like to borrow the book when I'm finished?

Saying us "bashers" are irrationally attacking Ginn, is his best defense. Lord knows ya'll haven't got much to cling to otherwise

 

Jay Fiedler took a hell of a lot more chances downfield that Chad Pennington did. Look at a Chambers highlight reel in Miami and tell me how often we've seen the 30-40 yard passes the past two years like we do in Chambers highlight reels.

 

Well, we all have to wait and see what effect Henne has on Ted Ginn, as for returning kick offs, this may be offbeat but to me it means Ginn as a Wr is not impressing the Staff so they calculate they have little to lose by using him on kickoffs.

To me, Penny was a big part of the TD problem the only TD pass I recall him throwing actually into the endzone was the two that Teddy Ginn did not catch, other than that, dumpoff passes and "hope" they can carry the ball into the endzone.

Penny just would not risk it, Henne will or would, if Henning and Co let him.

 

Yeah, Fiedler was really lighting it up....

Fact is....

Chambers first few years > Ginn

I saw a 30-40 yd pass at the end of the Colts game....and it went right thru Ginn's mitts.

 

I'd say it's safe to say, Penny nor Ginn are red zone threats....the two together are a recipe for........well, not much. lol

 

i don't refer to anyone as bashers. Do I think some of what has been said is irrational yes. I think alot of it has to do with people just being pissed and ginn handling a reception that would have won us a game.

and fyi heres the stats for the td passes by penny last year
he had 19 td passes
bess - 1 td
ginn - 2 td
cam -2 td
martin - 3 td
fasano - 7 td

that tells me more about our style of offense and less about ted ginn.

 

Iam a ginn supporter, But i think JS has some valid points, hes got a beef with ginn, and i respect that, theres no question he deserved the demotion on return duties this early, and has definetley lost some confidence at receiver from his recent play, the charger game has put him on the spot on some level, I think the criticism is justified...Thats the bad news....The good news is, i think some of his frustration, and lack of performance is atributed to Chad pennington's right arm...lets see what happens when you have a qb that can lead him in his routes, and get the ball on top of him in a hurry, so he can make moves on yac....this is especially important for davone bess. watch out for this cat now that henne is behind center. talk about the importance of getting the ball quickly on a player like that, and what it can do for your offense, shoot, iam confident bess will become the black wes welker.

I expect growing pains from our new qb, but i also expect our offense to be more dynamic, and for our players to use their max talent without compensating for other's weaknesses.

Iam happy if were gonna put him back on kickoffs, and damn it, lets keep him there, i think he will find a rhythm.

 

I think it also tells you that our number one WR is not a TD, or red zone threat......if there's anything in his game that you feel makes him a red zone threat, please share

 

if theres anything there that shows you we have any red zone threats then our te's please share. in other words when it comes to td passes its more then likely going to our te. in fact 10/19 times total 52.6% over any wr.

 

I think Henne will help Ginn....and like you said, make Bess much more dangerous..

My concern is how much help will Ginn be to Henne.....I just don't see the physical effort from him. If the pass is near perfect then yeah....it's a home run. Otherwise, it's likely a long in-completion.

It may surprise some....but I do expect more out of Ginn from now on. I expect to see more from all our WR's......but this team has no real red zone threat and we desperately need one.

 

Eh, Ginn on a skinny post or a fly route maybe a ball to the corner of the endzone.

Penny would not throw a ball into the endzone, period, defenses would simply collapse into the endzone and keep the play in front of them and force Penny to dump the ball off and they knew he would dump the ball off.

 

I agree, we don't....I've said so many times. In fact I just said so seconds before this in another post..lol

Teddy Ginn is our number one WR, cashing checks for being our number one WR......he should be our red zone threat, he aspires to be our red zone threat....but to this point he's a disappointment.

We don't have any physical WR's.....which is the root of the red zone problem. And our number one WR is the least physical of them all.....not good

 

he won't be a traditional red zone threat because he doesn't have the size. Given his improvement in route running and a stronger armed qb I think the only logical conclusion is that he can develop into a different threat that is a red zone threat, just not a traditional red zone threat.

I don't think we need physical wrs in so far as to run over dbs. I think we need guys who aren't afraid to block or take hits. I think bess and ginn fit that mold as well as cam. Now before you say ginn is soft, you have to admit he's taken hits and popped right up. Like it or not that is the sign of a physical wr, as is his indifference to go after balls in double coverage where penny set him up to basically get nailed. Now if you are expecting him to take on a db or lb, I wouldn't hold my breath. He's just not built to do that.But, I don't think thats a bad thing. Some guys are finesse.
My biggest gripe against ginn is he is not consistent. There are times he seems to play like an allstar and other times he just disappears. However, given his progress I have faith he can turn that around.

 

Maybe so, but you could likely count those times it's happened on one hand.

Why?.....because Ginn does everything he can to not let that happen, he either hits the ground like he's been shot by a sniper in the stands or scurries out of bounds just as fast as those skinny little legs will get him there.

Well that and 25 cents is still just a quarter.....because it's not like he makes those catches.

I agree with you there.....problem is I've seen nothing in his tool box that tells me this will change.

 

Not really. penny has hanged him out there more then 5 times I can guarantee you.

Doesn't change the fact that he pursues the ball and takes the hit. And him being hung out to dry is the fault of penny not the wr.

His progress should tell you something and make you think he will change, as he has already changed.

 

fight!!!!!!!

 

His "pursuit" of the football is nothing to brag about...in fact that's one of the holes in his game.

Other than improvement in route running, which should be expected by someone in their 3rd year, I don't see where he's showing much to get excited about...

Shocking I know, but I think he'll have a good game tomorrow.....but I also expect him to soon disappear again. I just think he is what he is, a decent number 2 WR.

 

instigator

you must be bored

 

you would prefer he didn't pursue the ball? If you are referring to him fighting for the ball, I agree, to a point. Regardless his pursuit contradicts any theory that he is afraid.

I think he is what he is, a guy whose improved year after year. More then route running, especially for a guy who was coming out of the draft considered not a true wr.

 

Oh I don't think so...in fact I don't I can ever recall a player as soft as Teddy G. Just watch tomorrow.....if he makes any catches you'll get to see him perform the "sniper" and the "sideline hurdle"...lol

Improved at what tho?

Getting in the end zone?

YAC?

Catching passes in traffic?

Blocking? (oh you better not...lol)

Breaking tackles?

Breaking free of slight contact?



The only improvement I see is that he's a better possession WR.....which would be great if we didn't have a roster full of those already and he wasn't our number one WR...

 

It's hard to be a threat down the field when your QB can't get it to you. First play last week was a TD if Chad can throw it in stride. He's had a good amount of plays where he simply hasn't been given a chance.

 

and again you would expect what him to take on dbs. come on now. hes not earl campbell very few wrs are.

You already admitted he improved his route running. Too late to go back on that now bro. Thats at least one thing. The earlier knock his first year was his route running and he was almost absent during games. Now he is existent so far in 2/3 games. Last year he greatly improved how many games he was a factor in. Again improvement.

 

But that's just it.....it takes a near perfect throw for him.

The ball was just beyond his out stretched hands......did you see him make any attempt to lay out for the ball?...Do you ever?

Unless the throw is almost perfect, don't expect much on those routes....

That catch Brown made? Ever see Ginn do that? No, if that throw is to Ginn, that's an in-completion.

Ginn's speed allows him to be a down field threat, but the pass better be right on the money....

 

What was he supposed to do? Warp into super speed mode and run 10 yards faster than Usain Bolt to catch it?

It wasn't barely overthrown it was a good five yards. The Pat White play? Those weren't close, they were balls he had no chance on.

 

Well, last season when Penny showed up he made the offense better because you couldn't really fool him, he knew how to get the ball out to the receivers.

With Henne, this isn't, or shouldn't be a "make do" offense, the offensive players "know" that a 50 yd pattern can be completed, so to me Ginn should run his deep routes a bit better with Henne.

To me Penny taught the Wr how to run routes and Henne will finish the process, that is a bit of an optimistic prediction, however it is not without basis.

 

oh come on.... earl campbell?

Nobody has to be within 5 yards of Ginn to get him scampering out of bounds...I'm not asking the skinny little guy to butt heads with anyone.....but damnnnn......just a little effort would be nice.

I didn't take it back.....I did say he's improved as a possession WR in that last post. And his route running is why. I give you that one...lol

And IMO he was existent in 1/3 games......he was 2/26 yds vs Atlanta. He didn't exactly light it up. Hell Joey Haynos was 1/20....

And in Ginn's one good game, he let the game winner go thru his hands....

He may have improved but he's still a pretty mediocre player.

 

A lot closer than your exaggeration would imply....

Close enough to give it more effort.......but, that's something you don't see from him. He doesn't lay out for passes. Is that okay with you?

 

I still think that the first pass into the endzone to Ginn against Indianapolis was a case where Ginn expected to have to go back to the ball because usually Pennington underthrows him...

I can't wait until 4:05PM ET tomorrow...

 

I agree the blocking must improve or Ginn,Bess or whomever will not get past the 20.

Yeah Penny hasnt done **** in over a year here, didnt we go 0-16 last year?

Oh please that ball was overthrown by a good 5 yards, there is no denying that, to do so would be incredibly stupid.

 

That could be GiK, now however, Ginn has to put on the Big Boy pants and run his routes like the ball will be there because...the ball is going to be there.

Teddy Ginn and really DBess are going to be required to man up because they may have learned how to play Wr under Penny, now they have to put their "school" lessons to work out on the field.

It will be interesting to see "who" becomes Chad Henne's security blanket, DBess would seem logical, but then again, maybe Greg Camarillo will be, or less of chance..Brian Hartline who can run, has size, and is about in the DBess position of playing regularly if Greg C is deemed as not creating enough separation.

As for Ted Ginn on kick offs...why not? P Cobbs has a track record, 22 yds per return, Ginn's "off' year last season was 21.3, so a foot an a half is not really worth not trying Ginn on them.

 

Pretty much sums it up. I think we'll see a different offense tomorrow. Giving the first team receivers a week to prepare with Henne should help a bit. I think the biggest thing to get use to will be the velocity Henne put's on his throws compared to Pennington.

 

Penny was a great leader......I'll give him that. But if it weren't for the introduction of the wildcat and solid play on defense. We're maybe 8-8 last season.

I think you're exaggerating but regardless........do you EVER see Ginn making a great effort to get to balls like that? And why is it ok that he doesn't?

I'll tell you this, he'd be a better WR if he did.....

 

Agreed, it's not just a lack of deep throws, it's having to wait on the ball to get there or not making the throw at all because the window closes too fast.

 

That is true, and one of my concerns about Henne, Receivers are used to a nice, soft, receiver friendly pass to float in as soon as they get their head turned, now they have to understand as soon as they turn their heads, or before, a rocket hard pass is coming in.

Huge difference.

 

I didn't say you took it back I said you admitted that he has improved. Which should give you hope for his improvement, of which earlier you said you had none.
in atlanta no one lit it up. and in ginns one good game he broke 100+ yards. A good sign and more signs of improvement unless you just want to see it as a fluke.

 

ok well I disagree on exaggeration..I did lol however

I think he plays ridiculously soft and getting to the ground or out of bounds seems to be his first instinct...........as opposed to finding which way the end zone is and heading in that direction.

I did say he has improved, but that doesn't mean he's going to improve to the level we need from him as a number 1. His lack of physicality will hold him back, I'm afraid.

And yeah he broke a 100 yds vs the Colts.....but he also had 175 last year vs the Bills. And yet instead of solidifying himself as our number 1 WR since then, he's made it pretty clear for us that we still need to search for a true #1.

I think he's fine as a #2......but he's limited. I expect good games from him on occasion and for him to disappear on occasion as well.

If we can find a real scoring/red zone threat, it will deff take some heat off of him......

 

Yep, I do remember that, in fact, those penalties had nothing to do with springing him on those returns.

 

I recall 2 returns for TD's that happened on.

But in 08, it was NOT the same Teddy Ginn returning kickoffs, he dropped the ball, he hesitated, he veered to the left and out of bounds quickly, in 07 he was much more fearless.