Terdell Sands

Mission Accomplished then...:

I seriously think there will be, the Owners have it in their interests to reset their salary situations, the players have little interest in that happening for one season, but if the Owners cross their arms and say "No cap" the players cannot do a thing.

 

JT doesn't really count padre, he has a long history in Miami.

Fergy and Fasano I'll give you, I'm not that impressed with AA to consider him stellar, he may or may not be in our long term plans. I could very easily see the Phins draft someone like Micah Johnson as a replacement (fingers crossed). You're projecting alot onto Thomas and Haynos, neither one has contributed much of anything as of yet.

So for the most part, this FO did a great job of pillaging their former employer of established players, but alot of the less than stellar signings came from outside FA's (McCown, Wilford, Torbor, Crocker, McKinney, etc). I don't expect every FA signing/trade to be a starter, but if you're going to call them stellar I would expect more.

And I'm basing my opinion on Grove from what I've seen in Oakland, he just isn't the player that folks thought he would be when he came out of college and he isn't the player that some folks think he is based on his contract and "newness" to the Phins.

Well if that is the case, that would be alot of money spent on a guy that would need to be taken out.

We'll have to wait and see on both players. Trust me, I would love nothing more than for folks to bookmark this and rub it in my face at the end of the year when both players do extremely well. If that happens, it means that the Phins benefitted and that is much more important than who is right or wrong on an internet forum. I see no shame in admitting being wrong, I hope I get the chance.

 

Absolutely...

However a forum is the best place to discuss and disagree at times on the issues.....I'd say it would get pretty boring if all we did was high five each other and agree all the time.;]


JS

 

Sure he does, he was a FA, we signed him, and cheaply as well.

There is no such thing as a long term player in Miami anymore l2g, they contribute this season, or they are relegated or released.

And Akin A had the same stats as Bart Scott did..as in within 3 tackles..

Well so far you simply discount the good players and focus on the mediocre ones, JT and Penny "count" Smiley "Counts" Torbor even "counts" it doesn't matter who they miss on, it matters who they keep and how they play.

I doubt you'll "get" that L2G, no offense meant of course.

What I love about the NFL is it proven...on the field...right now...the NFL does not have Baseball's 3 or 4 yr learning curve, a guy can play or he cannot.

Now players do get beaten however good players do not get beaten consistently.

 

I agree. Im very scared to see an uncapped year, and I'm also annoyed that it's directly affecting Ronnie Brown's potential contract right now.

 

Possibly.......but it would also give guys like Snyder and Jones the opportunity to turn their teams into the Yankees and Red Sox. I doubt the majority of owners want to see that happen...



JS

 

Well if other owners want to dump salary in tough economic times and those two wish to spend that is just the way it will work out.

Jerruh just spent 1 billion on his stadium, best believe he will pay through the nose trying to win a title, and he is dead against revenue sharing,

 

If you want him to count, one could make the argument that this FO ran him away when Parcells refused to acknowledge him during what would have been their first meeting after the new FO took over. Now I think JT is a primadonna and wanted out, but I also believe that the FO was tweaked off at his Dancing With The Stars nonsense, blowing off camp and practices. There is always the possibility Taylor doesn't leave if Parcells shakes his hand.

I disagree, if you want to build a winning team you have to think of players as being a part of that, you can't expect to win if every position is a revolving door. AA doesn't fit that mold IMO, he's a stopgap player who is only going to be around until they can find someone better. Our ILB spot wasn't one of our strongest assets this time last year, AA beat out whom of importance? He had a good year, but good isn't stellar.

JT doesn't count IMO as I stated above, Smiley was injured which was a concern when we signed him, Torbor did what again? And like jetssuck said in an earlier post, Penny fell into our laps at a time when most other teams already had their QB situation on a path to be settled (post draft and FA). Had Penny been released at the start of FA, he would have had more suitors and who knows how that would have turned out.

So to clarify, I'm not ignoring the good ones to focus on the mediocre ones, I'm highlighting the mediocre ones to make the case that the '08 class of newbies wasn't stellar. Again, that word implies a level of success that our FA's just didn't reach IMO.

Come on brother, keep it above board.

I disagree again (shocking, I know )

Alot of players take a few years to reach their potential, it may not be as long as the MLB, but the NFL also doesn't have a farm system where prospects can be held back by vets earning big money, that should be taken into account when talking about the time it takes to get to the majors. In the NFL you are thrown into the fire, some players can shine right out of college and others take a little while to get their sea legs. Ginn is a good example of that, he's shown steady progression and is looking to once again improve on his prior season in year 3. For some players it takes a little time, some positions are a little harder than others to excel at right out of the gate.

 

Absolutely, I love to debate and despise the "rah rah" type threads. That's also a reason that I like to talk with rival fans, it's keeps our head out of the aqua and orange clouds.

 

lol......me too

Unfortunately it's always pegged me as being a "negative" guy that wants to pee in everyone's cornflakes...;p

Fact is, whether we agree on the issues or not, we all want the same thing. To see the Fins win a SB before we die.....and me I'm gettin old. lol


JS

 

OMG, Padre never said AA is stellar as a player. He said that our front office was able to get 8-9 solid starters so cheaply was stellar, and it is.

 

That basically fits any player. Of course some will be harder to replace with better players than others.

Again, no one called AA a stellar player. Just you misread what Padre was saying.

 

They did play slightly more, true. During the season a starter would play 12 quarters in 21 days. Thats 0.57 quarters per day, relatively, in terms of recovery time compared to playing time.

In the Panthers, Bucs and Saints games the O-line starters probably played, what, a total of 8 quarters (assuming they played 3 quarters, 3 quarters, and 2 quarters in the respective games). That's 8 quarters in 11 days, which is about 0.73 quarters per day.

Obviously a lot less rest.

I don;t know if that explains away Grove's performance.

 

By the way, none of the teams we faced were a 3-4 team. Grove was signed because he is great against NT's in a 3-4.

ALL our important AFC rivals are 3-4 teams: Patriots, Jets, Steelers, Ravens.

I will judge Grove after seeing how he performs when blocking a man at 0 technique, not at an angle.

 

The purpose behind saying you wouldn't get it is that failures happen, we could have 4 Wilfords, it is the 1 Bess that matters, this Staff is not afraid to sit a player who underperforms or to cut them ASAP when a better player is found.

Imho people are chained to the Wanny Teams that brought in mediocre talent than watched as they blew games for us only to be put back out onto the field the next week.

Taveres "Asbestos Helmet" Tillman or a Guard who stinks but we paid him well so they play no matter what, this regime goes two deep on positions in the draft and signs mid level FA's to generally small to modest contracts.

For example McCown was traded ASAP as soon as we acquired Pennington, yes there have been cap hits, but so what? They usually discover that a younger player can do the job as well if not better than the player who left or the FA who underperformed.

His'n did his annual "how the roster was created" thread, if anyone cares to look it is now mostly Ireland players, even down to Cam Wake, have we had a salary cap issue?

Not at all, the only good player we have lost was Andre Goodman, and Irish was surprised at the money the Broncos were willing to pay for him, they basically made an offer we could not match in terms of a signing bonus.

 

Courtney Bryan, the player who was execrably bad as our 9-millionth string Safety under Cam Cameron is not worht lamenting for being cut.

We have a player who was on the Giants Superbowl winning team as a starter the same year that Bryan helped us go 1-15 as the, what, 6th safety to play the position after Worrell. Bryan wans terrible.

How can we compare Gibril Wilson (68 games, 489 tckls, 13 INTs) to Courtney Bryan (19 games, 14 career tackles, O INTs) ?

 

Well the salary cap "issue" isn't a problem now.....the problem will arise in the near future and you can't just say oh well and brush it under the rug like it won't matter.



JS

 

Stats or not.....I saw Courtney Bryan break up some passes, while Wilson can't seem to get in the same zip code as the football.

Not saying Bryan was the answer....but Wilson's play thus far has been disappointing to say the least.

Ppl keep saying it's only preseason.....well Sean Smith has only played in preseason. Should we discount that as well? Or just the bad stuff?...lol


JS

 

I think the salary cap is sort of B$ JS simply because Snyder averages one major signing an offseason and the Skins have not had cap problems for years, to me the Cap is a flexible as an owner wants it to be and a team has not had cap problems since the Niners in the early 2000's and the Wanny phins after he spent money on and lots of it on terrible players.

But that was 5 seasons ago..

 

Well look at this way, once the season starts the Ty Culvers and Bryans won't eat into the number of plays Wilson will see during the season, Gibril rarely played in the second half, that is a ton of opportunities to make plays on the ball.

50% more plays Gibril takes part will lead to more production in the passing game.

 

For the other team?

I agree with you here. It is much easier to standout in the 2nd half of preaseason games. Wilson, IMO, will play a more active role during the season. (or so i hope )

 

But AA fits into the collective. If someone is going to use the word stellar to describe the FO's ability to bring in talent, I expect to see some stellar players to back up that claim, which is something that I don't see. I see one or two very good players, a few decent players and a few "meh" players. That doesn't scream stellar to me.

Using your example, 4 misses out of 5 isn't stellar, it's a blind squirrel tripping over a nut. Of course you have to turn over every rock in order to find a diamond, but I just don't see the talent that would lead me to say the FO did a stellar job.

But I think that discounts (or at least minimizes) the fact that this FO planned on McCown being our starter until Penny fell into our lap, that has to count for something. Had the Jets held onto Penny we would have been in a real mess last year. It was by luck that we were able to upgrade that spot, not skill, a keen draft eye or shrewd negotiating.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the season hasn't even started yet, has it ?? With your reasoning, Davis and Smith are busts already...wow....just wow...We can at least wait to bash Ireland when and IF they actually fail us, can't we ??

 

Now that's pure speculation and conjecture. Your conjecture may have very well been right, but you are forgetting what else might have happened with Henne at the helm. Then we'd have wanted a more solid backup than just Beck and McCown could have supplied that...again it's all conjecture but we can't go back and say if this didn't happen (Penny) the season would have been totally different ??

 

Not at all.....unlike Grove and Wilson, Smith and Davis have looked very promising.

No one's calling for Ireland's head, just saying that he needs to start doing better in FA if we want to win a SB. A lot of you seem to want to continue down that same path as ppl did during the Wanny years and just sit back with the notion that the FO is beyond criticism. And while I'm happy with a lot of the things this current FO has done, I'm not all that impressed with their FA decisions. Some I have liked a lot........but quite a few others, not so much.

 

The majority of you don't want Henne starting now or anytime soon......but it's ok that he starts last year?

And what's wrong with speculation on a fan forum?.....if nothing else, it creates some discussion and debate

 

We're not saying your calling for JI's head. What's ridiclous is how you are already saying Grove and Wilson are bad free agent signings, and how you want a redo. You even compared Bryan to Wilson, which is laughable.

 

I'm "speculating"....look it up

And no I didn't do a comparison or say that I felt one was better than the other.....what i said was I saw Bryan defend some passes and Wilson did not. Which is a FACT......

Maybe you should read a little closer before grandstanding and getting personal...just giving my opinion dude. Don't like it, don't read it.

 

Ok, you're speculating, I'm disagreeing with your speculation. If you're not happy when someone disagrees with you, then you should stop speculating.

 

I needed a 2 beer intermission on this topic.
Nah,I have no input either.It just causes trouble or I get ignored.
I will say it is most entertaining though.
It's great to see the season is only 5 days away.
Now back to our program.....

 

If you do not want to think getting 8-9 solid starters so cheaply was a stellar effort on Ireland's part, then fine. Agree to disagree on that. I am saying Padre never referred to Akin individually as a stellar player. You seemed to respond as if you felt he did. He did not. You singled Akin out of those he mentioned, which included lesser contributors to this point. If you want to use the reasoning that Padre should not use the word stellar to describe what Ireland has done, Akin was not the weak link of his list of examples anyway.

Akin is and has been a very solid starter for that matter, even though he is often, unjustified, a favorite whipping boy of the huddled masses here.

 

Not happy? I could care less.....just sayin maybe you should offer more than some simple condescension. Seems like you travel the threads looking for someone who isn't guzzling the kool aid and then jump in with nothing but attitude. Which is what is really 'ridiculous" and "laughable"....as you put it.

Personally I'm done responding to you until you actually put something on the table to discuss...

 

How am I giving attitude? Because I disagree with your assertion that Gibril Wilson and Jake Grove are terribe signings after 4 preseason games? If you can't stand the fact that someone is disagreeing with your opinion, stop posting.

 

It's fine that you disagree, really it is..;]

Have a nice day

 

You too.

 

well that's only interesting for about two posts.

now talking about how players who haven't played an official down yet for the dolphins aren't worth their contracts, THATS a conversation starter.