Francoeur has been hitting like he did early in his career since the trade. The power seems to be coming back and he's driving in runs constantly again. He definitely seems more comfortable in New York. So far, so good.
If he gives us 20 hrs, 100 ribbies and plays stellar right field - which he is capable of doing - why does it matter if he bats .267?
Batting average isn't the best way to judge a hitter but if you want to use it fine but a .267 batting average isn't very good to begin with. When you add that average to the fact he doesn't get on base much (his OBP is career wise .309) which means he gets on base only 30% of the time, so the other 70% he's failing to reach base thus making an out which ends up hurting the team. Not to mention an OBP of .300 is terrible. I know he's a free swinger but there are other free swingers that have very good OBPs and are actually good hitters as well. Francoeur isn't one of them. And who's to say he's going to even hit 20 home runs or drive in 100 RBIs? His career SLG % doesn't show that, not even factoring in he now plays 81 games at Citi Field or that he has had almost no power the past 2 years. Plus did I mention he's a corner OFer where that position needs someone who actually hits for power. All of his offensive numbers are poor no matter how good his defense is. Right now his career stats scream out 4th OFer at best. The only thing he has working on his side is that he's still 25, thus some people think he could turn it around. If he was 28 or 29 he'd probably be out of the league or the 25th guy on a team.
Oh that's great. Good for him. What has that to do with anything? Nick Swisher has fun too but still bats .240 a year with a terrible glove but at least he gets on base 35% of the time and takes pitches and makes the pitcher work a little bit.
67 games with the Mets Church = 2 HRs, 22 RBIs. 13 games with the Mets Frenchy = 3 HRs, 15 RBIs. TERRIBLE Trade!
Calm down buddy, just making a statement. Usually guys who are having a good time are loose and play better overall baseball.
I disagree with you disagreeing Omar put the stake in his heart yesterday. He is getting killed on all sports talk radio, and rightly so. 1. The minor leagues are a joke. 2. Tony B has been doing this crap for years. 3. The major league team has no heart! Yes injuries played a part in it, but he has made many mistakes. Its time to clean house.
I disagree with 1 and 3. This years team has heart just lacks in ability. The injuries certainly play a role but Beltran played hurt, Reyes has been willing to play hurt but the team wont let him. Cora needs surgery on his thumb and can hardly grip a bat (not that he hits anyway but its the heart we're talking about here), even Castillo has shown heart. As far as the minor leagues being a joke, not really. It takes time to redevelop those minors after all the years they were ignored for. We have some good prospects but theyre mostly at the lower levels. Guys like Ike Davis, Wilmer Flores, Ruben tejada, Reese Havens, Jeffrey Meija have not been playing pro ball very long. Theyre streamlining Brad Holt through the system as he came out of last years draft pretty close to being ready and now he's starting to get his secondary pitches over. Mike Antonini and Dillon Gee are/were pitching very well...Gee just got hurt a short while back. Ike Davis is starting to crush off speed pitches which was the only reason he wasnt the first 1B drafted last year and instead was the 5th. Hes got more homers and I believe a higher BA/OBP then any of those drafted in front of him. Niese, Murphy and Evans have come through the system on Omar's watch to contribute. The prior regime gave us Wright, Reyes, and Pelfrey but its on Omar's watch that they became stars, well Wright and Reyes have anyway. This regime will end up giving us more from the farm but its takes time when youre signing a bunch of International FA's who are 16 when you sign them as was the case with Fernando Martinez, Wilmer Flores, Jeffery Meija, and Ruben Tejada. This team is in the exact same place the Red Sox were almost a decade ago; an overpaid, often injured underachieving major league club who is just starting to have some players come through their system that cant get to the bigs fast enough. There's a couple other reasons working against Omar being fired though: We're still paying Willie. Jerry may get canned too and if we fire Omar he definitely is because the new GM will want to bring in his guy. Omar still has 3 years left on his deal. Are the Wilpons going to want to pay 3 people who are not working for them anymore? I dont think so. Like it or not, Im pretty sure we're stuck with him for at least another year.
I totally agree with what Klapisch says in the Bergen Record. http://www.northjersey.com/sports/pro_sports/Klapisch_Omar.html I think he is dead on. Omar had a chance to change the culture, but just made us more screwed up.
Oh I don't know, maybe the fact he has knocked in 100+ runs twice in his VERY brief and young career and came within one HR of hitting 20+ HR's twice as well. Also like to know where it is written that corner outfielders have to be power hitters, there are MANY examples of very good players who have excelled playing the corners without power. In fact the great Carl Yastrzemski averaged a HR every 30.9 AB's, the EXACT same number Francoeur has and in the RBI category Yaz has a RBI every 7.6 AB's where Francoeur betters him a RBI every 6.7 AB's. WOW. So a guy who has 100+ RBI seasons in his first five seasons is a 4th outfielder?? How many 4th outfielders can lay claim to that?
The problem with Frenchie, and I've said this many times, is that he continues to revert back to his bad habits. He changes his stance, where his hands are held, and still wraps the bat with that long swing and misses the belt high fastball. Once guys figured out the book on him, he made no adjustments. We hear alot of talk about how Jason Allen struggles because when the pressure is on, he forgets everything he's been taught and goes back to the old ways. Even Rudy Jaramillo couldn't fix Jeff. I wish him the best, but until he can get away from that long swing and be a little more selective, he's gonna continue to struggle.
I can't understand this part, he had an offseason last year and struggled in the 1st half of this season until getting traded here and now it looks like he has found his grove like he did his first three seasons, and don't forget it is sooooo tough to play in your hometown, I think he just needed to get out of Atlanta so we can see the real Jeff Francoeur. My point is some of you want to point to 2008 and the first part of 2009 to suggest that is what we can expect from him instead while ignoring his first three seasons in the Majors. And it's not like we are talking about a 30 year old here, the kid is just still 25. Not to mention it doesn't look like he is struggling anymore does it?
I'm not sure about this part. I mean, Brian McCann is doing pretty well playing in his hometown. And when you consider that Atlanta is not New York or Philly (where the fans let you know if you suck) Jeff hasn't really had it that rough. Sure, he's doing ok right now. But he's had nice stretches with us over the last few years then went completely cold again. Again, I wish Jeff the best. But he's had only 1 walk in 52 AB's since joining the Mets... 1 ****ing walk! What happens when he cools off? (and trust me, he will)
Com'on, you really didn't think I was implying this happens to EVERY hometown player do you? Plus from what I recall growing up Francoeur was a bigtime HS legend in Atlanta, you have to admit it can be very tough to live up to the expectations of everyone has when you put on a pedestal of that magnitude. His job here is to be a RBI guy and play stellar right field in a very spacious park, it doesn't bother me about his lack of walks, that's not what he is here for. Plus I am sure you can find a weakness in just about 99% of the players in the majors today. And again I fail to see why everyone is basing that this guy is done because he has struggled in the past. There are plenty of players who have been wrongly written off only to prove everyone wrong.
Hey you know what you're absolutely right on the part I bolded. The Mets from 2005-2009 remind me of the old 1999 to 2002 Red Sox. Good call on that.
That's an excuse, and not a very good one considering he did live up to the expectations in the early part of his career. Pitchers made the adjustments, he hasn't. And again, what happens when he struggles in a place like New York? I think there's even more pressure on him now than he ever had in Atlanta. It's rare nowadays. The steroid era helped alot of guys come back (Tim Salmon and Bret Boone come to mind). I can't think of anyone else in the last few years who's done what Francoeur is attempting to do. Could he hit 20 HR's and drive in 80 runs? Maybe, he is very reliable and is rarely injured. But his OBP and K totals will more than make you wanna pull your hair out. Braves fans have dubbed him "Rally Killer" that last few years.
Yeah because RBI is a great measure to tell whether a player is a good hitter or power hitter. RBIs is a function of guys getting on base for the hitter to knock in. Francoeur has had great players hit in front of him like Chipper Jones, Brian McCann, Teixeira for a short time etc. Can we talk about how his SLG % has gone down each year since he's been in the big leagues. Or that he hasn't hit 20 home runs in 950 at bats since the last time he almost hit 20 home runs. Brady Anderson hit 50 home runs in a season one year should we call him a 40 plus home run hitter? How about a 30 home run hitter? Is it at all possible that his 2006 season was the fluke and the 2007, 2008 and 2009 season are the real Francoeur? 1B, 3B, LF and RF are power positions. Show me some examples of very good players who have excelled playing corners without power on good teams. Sure it happens but I bet it's because those players either had tons of speed (which Francoeur doesn't), played really great defense (Francoeur does have a nice arm and glove I will give him that), and you know actually had high batting averages and got on base (which we know Francoeur doesn't do). Do you really want to compare Yaz with Francoeur? I mean seriously. These are compete cherry picking stats and are pretty meaningless too. Let's compare a HOFer to a lousy hitter. I mean Yaz only batted .285/.379/.462 with 452 home runs and over 3400 hits in his career. How many MLB players can claim they have a career stat line of .267/.309/.426 as everyday players? Francoeur's numbers show he's a 4th OFer. I don't know how you can ignore that the guy isn't a productive or good hitter?
I think the hometown thing can go both ways, and I also believe it hurt Jeff badly when he was struggling. Think about it. Francoeur was a hero playing baseball in the Atlanta area his whole life. He was a legend in high school and busted out on the ML scene in 2005 and became even bigger than he already was. But then 3 years later he started to nosedive and couldn't break the slump. Now all those people who watched him and loved him while he was a kid growing up in the game, are seeing him struggle on a consistent basis. They're in the stands for every home game, all his friends growing up, all his old classmates, his family, etc. I would think that gets really hard to deal with. That's why the trade IMO was the best thing that could have happened to him. It gets him away from that intense pressure of playing in your hometown.
I am not implying he wilted under the pressure of playing in Atlanta but that he just simply needed a change of scenery and I don't think that is an excuse at all. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/drewj.01.shtml http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/dyeje01.shtml http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/konerpa01.shtml http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wellsve01.shtml http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sheffga01.shtml These all players who have struggled at one time or another in there careers and rebounded, again I think some people are putting TOO much stock in a young player having a off year. It happens more than you think. And it only took me five minutes to find these players. I have never had a players OBP pull my hair out, I am not that stat driven I guess, as far as K's better that than a DP, now that is a stat that drives me crazy.
Uh, yes it is, I can't fanthom why anyone would think otherwise. And all good RBI men have had good hitters in front of them, so we are now going to marginalized a stat because it hurts your arguement Wow. Again. You are talking about his power numbers going down over a two year period, can you let the guy breath at least. He's freakin' 25 man and you are acting like like he is 30 and his numbers are going down over a four or five year period. Ridiculous. In 2007 - TWO YEARS AGO - he hit .293, had 19 homers and 105 ribbies and to you that is a bad year? That is a hellva myth there, there are hundreds of instances where that has not been the case. You are the one who is claiming the corner OF'ers have to be power hitters, I am just showing you that is not always the case, and I also think you calling Francoeur a lousy hitter and with the fact you think he has a miserable year in 2007 you seem to have some axe to grind with him and are having trouble being impartial. Yeah man, you keep thinking that, but it won't make it anymore true. By the way I love when someone answers my question with a question without answering my question.
I don't think the guys you listed compare to Francoeur. None of them played this bad, for this long, and rebounded. Maybe they had a down year, like Konerko did when he was injured, but for the most part they were much more consistent.
Umm no because RBIs aren't a good indictor of whether a guy is a good hitter. It has more to do with the guys getting on base in front of him. It doesn't hurt my arguement that Francoeur is a bad hitter because he is. Ask around to any scout or anyone in baseball and they will tell you that RBIs aren't a good measure to use. Ichiro is a great hitter but he doesn't drive in 100 runs because he gets on base so other guys can drive him in. Dustin Pedroia didn't have 100 RBIs last year but he's a good hitter, ditto for Joe Mauer who's a great hitter. Nope I'm talking about his SLG % going down every year since his first year in the major leagues. Not just a two year period. Why can't a 25 year old player stink? Seriously just because the guy is young automatically means he can turn it around? Can we argue about Angel Berroa next? No it was a decent year. His OBP and SLG % were still low. But it probably was Francoeur's best year. Again if you have to go back 2 years to help your arguement you're climbing an uphill battle already. No it's historically true. Corner players should be power hitters. Regardless Francoeur is neither a power hitter or a good hitter based on his stats. My favorite team is the Red Sox. I'm neither a Met or Brave fan. Nor do I care one way or the other about Francoeur or either the Mets or Braves or any team in the NL. You're more bias than I am since you're a Met fan in this arguement. I have no axe to grind at all. How is calling someone lousy that has a career line of .267/,309/.426 wrong on my part? You don't value OBP, which shows you're behind the times anyway, but even a BA of .267 isn't good! Francoeur isn't a good hitter. He's just not. He has a career average of .267. That's not good. Ok fine I'll answer you even though you answered my question of naming me some good corner players with less power on good teams with a question yourself. But anyway let's see just this year Andruw Jones, Cliff Floyd and Matt Stairs. I would also put Gary Sheffield and Ken Griffey Jr. in that list too. Let me ask you a question if you don't think a career .267 hitter isn't lousy what would be your definition of a lousy hitter?
He has been playing off for only a year and half, I mean honestly big deal. You guys are trying to make it sound like this has been going for three years are so. And as far as being consistent he is only his 5th year in the league, don't you think you are being quite unfair with him at this early stage of his career?
I don't think Im being unfair, no. I was a huge Frenchie fan and defended him last year on Braves boards when others bashed him. However, I think 5 years for a guy is a pretty good sample size. There's a reason the Braves traded him. They did everything they could to wait for him to turn things around (even sending him to the minors) and saw no improvement. I hope he tears the cover off the bal for you guys (just not against us lol) but I saw nothing in his swing or approach this season to make think he's going to rebound.
He's been in the league for 5 years now, normally players figure it out by now. He should be able to make adjustments to big league pitching, which he hasn't. His numbers across the board are bad and have been going down. He hasn't shown any improvements. Outside of 13 games with the Mets against the weak pitching of the Reds, Nationals, Astros (without facing Oswalt or WayRod) and 1 game vs. the Rockies that you guys want to hang your hat on you have no good arguement that he can turn it around other than the fact he had a good year 2 years ago. Everything else is an excuse for the guy on why he's not doing well. The Braves were going to non tender him (wich basically is a nice way of saying we're releasing you) a contract after this year if they didn't trade him for anything because that's how bad he's been.
Frenchy had a good month of April too. The truth of the matter is though that he's been bad much more often than he's been good. If the "pressure" of playing around people that care about him and support him is too much how is he going to handle the rabid New York fanbase when he struggles again? And he will struggle again. I watch almost every Braves game, I live in Georgia. I've seen enough to know that Frenchy gets excited when he has some success and just reverts back to whatever he feels like doing, and then the struggles return. Give me Church's consistent mediocrity. It's fine with me and it's fine for Atlanta right now. Church platooned with Diaz > Francouer. I was as big a fan of Frenchy as anybody but it is what it is.
Ichiro is a lead off hitter!!! Of course he is not going to get that many RBI's. And I am just curious, what baseball scouts did you ask if RBI's was not a good indicator of a batters worth? Again we are talking about a young player here and I think people like you are too stat driven that you forget to take your eyes off the stat sheet and see the bigger picture here and that is we are talking about a 25 year old player who has a load of potential and who has so far in his brief stint with the Mets has started to show that potential everyone talks about. Angel Berroa? You trying to be cute or something? Good god, a decent year? How can someone in their right mind say a 100+ RBI season is just decent?? I am not even going to touch that. No it shouldn't, what matters is that you have enough power hitters in a lineup too offset any lack of power you have, great example is Chase Utley and the Phillies, he hit 33 homers last year as a 2nd baseman and because of that the Phillies were able to get away with a 3rd baseman with average power at best. So any opinion you have about the Red Sox we should just discard because you are biased? I am not saying you are biased I am just going by your flawed logic. Uhm huh? But anyway let's see just this year Andruw Jones, Cliff Floyd and Matt Stairs. I would also put Gary Sheffield and Ken Griffey Jr. in that list too.[/quote] Again huh? The difference between you and me is your relying to much on stats, they are useful yes but they should NEVER be the only basis for your arguement. What I see in Francoeur is a nice player who can drive in runs, hit for some power hit over .270 and play a stellar outfield in a very spacious park. And the best part is he is ONLY 25 win most players are just breaking into the league.
Bro, there is a reason why a lot of good players have gotten traded early in their careers, don't mean those teams were always right. And five years would be a good sample if he was 30 or older. He is just reaching the prime of his career at 25 so it's WAY too early to write off. Bottom line.
For anyone that hasnt watched...the SNYTV split screen from yesterdays PC over the firing of Bernazard....amazing...and so funny: (Omar vs. Rubin....classic) http://web.sny.tv/media/player/mp_tpl.jsp?w=mms%3A//a1503.v222062.c22206.g.vm.akamaistream.net/7/1503/22206/v0001/mlb.download.akamai.com/22206/2009/daily/07/072709_nym_omarpresser_800.wmv.wmv&type=v_free&vid=8852&_mp=1
Any baseball scout. Email Keith Law or Rob Neyer at ESPN.com because they will respond. Ask them about using RBIs to measure how good a hitter is and see what they say. Seriously RBIs aren't good indicators. OBP/SLG/OPS those are good ones. Yes I know Ichiro is a lead off hitter but if you have him bat 5th or 6th in Francoeur's spot he'd have 100 RBIs too. My point is RBIs is a bad measure of whether a guy is a good hitter. Taking stats away Francoeur swings at everything thrown to him. He swings at bad pitches or pitcher's pitches and thus gets himself out. He's easy to pitch to, hence why his numbers stink. Yes I'm absolutely trying to be cute. Because Berroa won the Rookie of the Year award in '03 as a young player and then fell off the face of the earth because he was a hacker much like Francoeur. My point? Young guys can stink too no matter how much potential they may have. And sometimes a good young player can't/won't make adjustments and simply fade away. Why can't that happen with Francoeur? Because his OBP, SLG %, K rate and OPS weren't good. You're looking at 3 stats, two of which (RBI and batting average) aren't as important as other stats. You're not touching it because you're living in the stone age that you value RBIs and batting average. And again 19 home runs from a corner OFer isn't good. No I'm simply pointing out that I'm unbiased in this matter because you said I had an axe to grind. I called Francoeur a 4th OFer so in your next posts earlier asked me to name 4th OFers who have driven in 100 runs in the past, so I did. That's the list. The difference between you and me is your relying too much on his potential and what he could possibly do and not what he's done which the stats back up my arguement.
It's not so much that Franc. is a 4th OF'er its that in no case should you rely on him to be your best hitter. He's fine in there everyday if you aren't relying on him to be "the guy" and drive in runs for you on a consistant basis. He's kind of like Dan Uggla with a better batting average (lower OBP though I think), except Uggla plays at a position where his line is "acceptable" because of his power. Where as Jeff plays at a position where a better line is expected. I'm not saying Jeff is a good player, just that he isnt terrible either.
What's happening with Minaya, and the front office and the media? Time to bring back Steve Phillips? I think Omar has a contract for three more years....OUCH!!! What a mess. In other news, the Phillies magic number to clinch the NL East is 58.
Jeff has been more selective actually. His k's are down here and most of his counts hes seeing 3-4 pitches which puts him in the middle of the league. You dont have to walk to be an effective hitter. You have to hit and be selective to be an effective hitter and Francoeur has done that so far. Do I expect him to continue to hit 326? No. But theres no reason he cant hit 300. I detailed a few pages back everything that has gone on with Francoeur in Atlanta a few pages back. It wasn't an excuse then and its not an excuse now. Francoeur's downfall wasn't that he was playing in front of hometown fans and probably pressured himself a little more then he should have to perform but what really messed him up was the braves offseason conditioning program after the 07 season. It affected Yunel Esconbar just as bad. Frenchy added 15lbs of muscle and the braves tried to make him a pure power hitter which he is not. I detailed his relationship with Braves management and how that affect him. Does he have flaws? Absolutely. Are those flaws correctable? Absolutely Perhaps Dan Warthen giving him the book on how pitchers on the mets were pitching him has helped him realize that what atlanta was telling him all those years wasnt just being told to him to hurt his feelings. Perhaps its just a change of scenary. Perhaps its just one big tease so far. Or maybe he has it figured out. I'll say this much and its indisputable...So far he has held himself accountable at every turn as a met. He has spoken his mind in the clubhouse and to the press. Right now, he is emerging as a leader on the Mets and it would be a mistake to trade him. He has the leadership abilities, swagger and charisma that some say Wright and Reyes lack. Next year when this team has reloaded a bit and has more players healthy he is an ideal 6th hitter on this team. The Mets were going to non tender church. I guess that makes it even. Except that Church still sucks and Frenchy has played well so far. At least Francoeur has a chance to become good again. Church isnt even a has been. He's a never was, never will be. If you and many others choose to believe that OBP/OPS is the most important stat by all means go ahead. How many championships has it won the A's or Depodesta? Zero. You know why? you need players that can HIT the ball. Francoeur has the potential to do that as he did for the better part of 3 years at the major league level. That he doesnt walk, and doesnt have a high OBP is finding something to pick at on a player because you prefer a sabermetrics guide to baseball as opposed to the traditional stats which myself and some other prefer.
I never said one way or the other that I liked/disliked the deal for either the Mets or Braves because honestly both players are blah to me. Here's the thing OBP measures hitting too though. It's not just walking or getting hit by pitches, it includes hits as well and is a better judge of how good a hitter is because it measures players reaching base safely (also known as not making outs which is the whole point of the game of baseball). Just because a guy has a high OBP doesn't mean he doesn't hit and just takes walks. All of the good hitters have good OBPs. The stuff about the A's or Depodesta isn't a fair arguement. Depodesta and the A's have made the playoffs numerous times since 2000. The playoffs is a pure crap shoot and there's a lot of luck involved with winning and the best team doesn't always win. Those A's teams had hitters on them like Giambi, Tejeda, Chavez (when he was healthy), Damon, Dye, Ramon Hernandez. They just had to get by better teams like the Red Sox and Yankees and couldn't. But getting to the playoffs with their pay roll you have to tip your cap to them. Also Depodesta pretty much built the Dodgers that you see today minus all the big spending Colletti has done signing Andruw Jones, Manny, Pierre, Schmidt etc. (most of them have been disasters for that team). The thing is you and others keep saying that Francoeur is a hitter yet his batting average is poor and wouldn't even indicate that he is. Again a guy with a career .267 batting average isn't a hitter nor is it good.
I am willing to bet my life more scouts think otherwise as they should. To underestimate how important it is to hit with men on base is mind boggling. Simple as that. With all due respect stop man, his numbers DO NOT stink, another mind boggling thought. How many MLB players had 374 RBI's and 131 doubles by the time were 25? I betcha it's not many, so how on earth can his numbers stink? Berroa had one good year, Francoeur has THREE. And by the way Berroa won the ROTY at the age of 25, the same age of you know who. And your living in the fantasy land of today with all these stats you keep throwing out there. Stats are like a lampost to a drunk, it provides support but not enlightment. And a reason why I hate Fantasy sports. And what I mean by that is you need to recognize intangibles in players as well and what they bring to their team minus the stats. What I have seen and heard of Francoeur since he has arrived in NYC, one he is a great teammate to have and looks he could easily be a leader on this team. An intangible. Plus I am watching the Mets game - where Francoeur has already knocked in another run - and Keith Hernandez was raving about how Francoeur seems to be thriving playing in NY and how that takes a different type of player to do this. Another intangible and coming from one of the smartest players to ever play the game and calls it as he sees it. Well you are the one that keeps insisting Francoeur stinks. I am trying to figure out why. By the time Stairs was a 4th outfielder h wase 34 and Sheffield, Griffey Jr and Floyd were either the same age or older. As far Andrew Jones the dude became a 4th outfielder because he so washed up. I mean com'on man...... Or what about what he has DONE?? You are trying to pretend his good years were an anomaly. And you can't do that, it's unfair.
Email Law or Neyer and ask them. Seriously. RBIs are a function of where you bat in the order and who bats in front of you. Hence why guys who bat 3rd/4th/5th/6th drive in more runs than other players on the team. You stick Ichiro or Mauer or Pedroia in those spots and they'll drive in 100 runs too. You stick Francoeur in the spots Ichiro or Pedroia man then he won't drive in 100. Because he has a career line of .267/.309/.426. Those are NOT major league numbers, they are bench player numbers if that. He doesn't hit for average or power or get on base. What aren't you seeing? He's not a good hitter. His numbers show it. You completely missed my entire point. I'm not trying to compare Berroa with Francoeur. I'm living in a fantasy land? You're the one saying Francoeur is not only a good hitter (when he has a career BA of .267) and he's a power hitter (when he has a career SLG % of .426). The stats I'm using are common now in the game of baseball and people just don't measure a player by HR, RBI or BA anymore. Read up on them and you will be enlightened. It's not my fault my stats don't make sense to you. I'm glad Francoeur is a great teammate or a leader or whatever. That doesn't make him a better baseball player. And have zero to do with the debate. Again it's his 14 game with the team. Small sample size. He has barely had 60 at bats with the team. Because I look at his stats and they do stink. Seriously he's a career .267 hitter with a career .309 OBP and a career .426 SLG. Again those ARE NOT major league numbers. You asked me to name 4th OFers with 100 RBI seasons and I did. Actually yes. Judging his stats it looks like his 2007 season was an anomaly in the BA and OBP. And his HR numbers in 2006 are an anomaly. They don't match up with his career numbers.
