Hassellbeck is the defination of above average but not great. McNabb. I dont know what to say, hes a polarizing figure isnt he. Either you believe in him or not. I personally dont. I dont think hes got that "it" factor. I think hes a bit to inconsistent, and I dont consider him to be an especially clutch guy. Yeah I know hes got some playoff wins under his belt, but as much as I hate TO, its hard to go against what he said. McNabb puking his guts out, loafing around during the crucial SB moment. I dont know, he just doesnt do it for me.
Well yes I think so. I think you have to be able to make every throw to be an elite QB because to be an elite QB that means you have to be an almost perfect QB which means doing everything a QB has to do. Plus I think you must be consistent year in and year out to be an elite QB and for Pennington two Comeback Player of the Year awards doesn't bode well for that. I love Penny and am so glad he is in Miami but I just don't have the confidence in him that I would with Brady or P. Manning as the Fins QB. Truly Pennington is great but not elite in my book as well.
Pennington is required to do different things, he not only has to operate the offense, he must control the clock, and line up as a Wr in the WildCat. Chargers are making a nice game out of this one, and Rivers has yet to complete a pass to a Wr...odd game..
We'll have to agree to disagree because I look at McNabb and I see a guy whose led his team to the NFC championship game 4 times without any reliable targets other than Westbrook. He's changed his game from a run first QB to a pass first. He has the accuracy and power.
I think it does. Holding on to the ball too long means looking to make the big play and underthrowing an interception just means he was trying to make a big play down the field and got picked.
he passes for more yards than pennington this year, after not starting a game since high school. he showed drastic improvement throughout the season. i see great things in his future. but i can see how some may doubt. just because he makes all the throws, doesnt mean he always makes the right ones. many very skilled passers have been ruined by their costly turnovers. cutler has a way to go in that department, IMO. Great, but not elite. great at playing the position. but he has limits that will keep him from making the types of plays that manning is making tonight. not neccessarily noddle arm. but just his downfield game in general. sometimes he is money downfield. but when do you ever see him nail a bullet pass on a deep corner route? or a deep comeback? or a deep post? his strengths are the short to intermediate game, his touch passes, and his decision making. those are the makings of a great QB. but not an elite one. no offense to chad, and i wouldnt trade him for the world. his completion percentage is inflated by screens and passes to the flats. Leading a team to the super bowl does not an elite QB make. Trent Dilfer is not elite, he has a ring, McNabb does not.
For me, an elite Quarterback is a consistent guy, much like your definition. For me, you don't have to have the great arm strength and make every throw. If you can get your team somewhere with the tools you have, your in my book. In the end, Pennington fits half of that criteria and I'm split on it lol. He does nothing in the Wildcat.
Both teams are tackling really solidly at the moment. Out comes Sceifers, Wow...that was the best punt I've seen all season, 67 yds from his own 20, and pins the Colts inside the 10...again...
Nope, not anymore. He's never been the same after his knee injury. The guy looks rough... Even Jaws who wants his babies has conceded Palmer's elite status. I think there's only 3 elites. Brady, Manning, and Brees (in that order). Brady might slip off of that depending on how his rehab goes and 09. But I agree with Cutler. The guy is flat out overrated. He makes a ton of dumb throws... I don't want the "his D sucks" argument.. It's a cop out. If he were Elite, he'd over come that ala Peyton (most of his career). Not to mention he plays against awful defenses which help inflate yds/tds.
Yes he does. I know a lot of the times they line up in the Wildcat and motion him out of his WR spot and Ronnie flips it to him and he throws it down the field. Its been used several times this year.
I agree somewhat, but the defense was what generally carried that team, and Id argue Westbrook was their offensive MVP. My biggest issue with McNabb is that he doesnt seem to be consistent in pulling out that close win. Him on that last drive in the SB epitomizes his failing to me in this regard. Just kind of wandering around, in no hurry, throwing up, no leadership. Manning or Brady would have been dragging teammates to the line, setting up plays and getting the play off fast, running about, taking command and leading. I dont see that from McNabb. That said, when hes on his game, he can be spectacular. But in a close game there are many other QBs id rather have. As for Penny, hes not elite because hes not a points guy. If your down by 21 do you think Penny will hit some quick strikes and bring us back? Not really. If we had Manning or Brady Id never count us out. With Penny, we have a QB who is ideal for our system. He doesnt make mistakes, he controls the ball, he can win a tight game, milk a lead and make some clutch plays. But he doesnt have that extra gear of a Manning or Brady.
I think that he's a product of Josh McDaniels. He doesn't always make the right ones but neither does every other Quarterback in this league, even Peyton Manning throws bad balls. If you can lead my team into the playoffs year in and year out, I don't mind how you do it. You can dump off every pass for a decade straight and win me games. He's a conservative Quarterback. He's always been like that and I can't blame him for that. As I said earlier, we must have different definitions of elite. He's thrown downfield many times in the past and has had high completion percentages. I find McNabb heavily underrated. Underthrowing a ball means to me that he tried to make a throw that he couldn't make or was not able to at the time. When your holding the ball, you have to have a timer in your head that goes off and tells you when to get rid of it. That's what killed Drew Bledsoe in Buffalo, he never had that timer in his head and got beat up because of it. Point is that an 'elite' Quarterback or any QB IMO should not hold on to the ball that long.
Ryan didn't impress me against Arizona. He only made one throw that honestly impressed me (the one that White dropped) the rest were on 2-3 yard passes, or 7-8 yard passes that were his first read. He definitely has potential but he does not deserve the praise he gets whatsoever.
But you give Cassel all kinds of credit? I live in NE, and watch a bunch of their games. Matt Cassel should get on his knees and thank god he has a highly simplistic offense to run and great talents like Moss and Welker who rack up tons of YAC and an O-line that gives you all day to throw, which creates separation in the secondary for his 5 yard passes that turn into 20. WR screens, RB screens, drags, do not make you good. Matt Cassel is the next Scott Mitchell if he leaves NE. Bank it.
Keywords. So far. I'd rather have other QB's over McNabb as well but I wouldn't sell him short and say he's not an elite QB. Just my opinion. Also, I think he's always had less talent than other quarterbacks. He's had Todd Pinkston, James Thrash as his ones and twos at one point. Freddie Mitchell was on that team in the slot! Three guys who are on the bottom of depth charts or are not even in the league at the moment. I think he's always done more with less. As for Penny, hes not elite because hes not a points guy. If your down by 21 do you think Penny will hit some quick strikes and bring us back? Not really. If we had Manning or Brady Id never count us out. With Penny, we have a QB who is ideal for our system. He doesnt make mistakes, he controls the ball, he can win a tight game, milk a lead and make some clutch plays. But he doesnt have that extra gear of a Manning or Brady.
One of the few things I miss about Chambers are catches like that on the sidelines. He's one of the best at those
This is turning into a very enjoyable game. As for Pennington, as a field general, I'd put him up there with Tom Brady, as a "pure" passer, he's just above average, but you have to look at the total package. Could Pennington lead us back from three TD's down? Depends on how much time there is...he could do it, but it would be an orchestra and not a solo act.
He had a great timer in his head the rest of the game I thought and remember he is still a rookie and will learn more as time proceeds. Just because I think he doesn't look like a typical rookie doesn't mean I think he is perfect or doesn't make rookie mistakes. For a rookie QB the guy looks nothing like your typical rookie QB. His praise I think is deserved and no one else really deserved the Offensive Rookie of the Year Award except maybe Slaton or C. Johnson in Tennessee.
Glad to see Chambers contribute. I like the Colts and dislike the Chargers but I want San Diego to win. In the off chance we were to meet, the Colts are the last team I want to face in the playoffs. Our defense isn't complex and Manning would probably pick us apart all day. Not to mention they could run the spread package we are so poor against. Not that I think they would kill us, I just think that would be our worst matchup. Of course we need to beat Baltimore and then the Steelers for this to be relevant at all. Just saying.
I absolutely agree that he looks nothing like a rookie. However, you can't dismiss that he is one and it showed in that game with some plays.
The thing is that people call Matt Ryan a franchise QB. The next Marino/Brady/Elway. He hasn't shown anything near that. Short pass patterns don't make you an amazing QB. They have protected him just like they did to Big Ben. Just to note that Mr. Burger has played extremely poorly at times. He was the next hall of famer too.
If I were the Chargers, I couldn't be happier with the first half of this game. Up 14-10...handling Manning pretty well so far, Special Teams performing incredibly well, and Rivers really hasn't had to do much except not get sacked.
What's your thoughts about Pennington. joke by the way I think he is a franchise QB but Marino/Brady/Elway well that is no where near been seen yet. Those guys are very rare and I will never say anyone can achieve that level until years of work. Also the Colts are blowing this game.
Cassel, agreed, but a product is a product. Cutler, I dont see any Manning in him. I see an overconfident young man who is on a mission to be better than Elway, making many mistakes because of this agenda. McNabb, yeah, he does a lot of things well, which is why I put him on the cusp. But we cant just go around calling just anyone elite. Elite is reserved for the best of the best. McNabb is not that, IMO. Pennington, iI know where our difference is. And I think youve got this one right. Im qualifying as elite passers. Youre qualifying as elite quarterbacks. There is definitely more to being an elite Qb than being an elite passer. Perhaps I shouldnt require that a QB be an elite passer to enter my group of elite QBs. But one would have to be as good as Penny is to overcome such a criteria. Great debating this with you. Always enjoy your point of view.
I completely agree. It's a shame tht his one good WR in his whole career was a creep (T.O.). Why Philly has ignored that need during McNabb's tenure is beyond stupid.
