No, it's more of: NEW School = Talk loud and play emotional if you want, as long as you can back it up. OLD School = Just play and don't say a word. Often, get grumpy with those who don't share this philosophy. I really can't side with any of you who are making this into a huge deal. There's way too many "if's" and "could of beens" in most of these theories. The fact is that SF had no time outs left. The ball was ours to kneel down and end the game, after Porter made the play that won it. The whole driving drunk correlation is really just comical. You can't compare the actions of a football game to a situation that can dictate life and death. That's just a ridiculous analogy.
ok, then why are we acting like porter's helmet flew and killed pennington as he was coming out to the field
UNSPORTSMANLIKE.....nothing else needs to be said for his actions!! I do love the posters that defend his actions....then add "but if it ever costs us a game, I would rip into him........" Anyway, I moved on to worrying about KC.
Yea, unsportsmanlike. From the same people who bring you the No. Fun. League. "Don't you celebrate your own success, that's not very nice!" "Joey! Don't you take your helmet off, Shaun Hill might get offended." You would have to be assuming that Porter didn't know they had no timeouts left and that there wasn't a little over a minute left in this game to make this argument really hold any kind of weight. I highly doubt that he didn't know either of those variables.
Manny has been around for a long time too, but teams aren't exactly lining up to sign a guy who puts up great stats because his actions overshadow them. Porter needs to be more responsible and professional, sooner or later his words and actions are going to hurt us. What then? Noone is saying that, but responsibility and character are important. We can all laugh or wag our fingers at a TO or Chad Johnson for being disruptive and for their actions, but we shouldn't overlook our own problem child because he's performing well or because he's on our team. Since Porter has been here he has gotten into a brawl at a casino, made derogatory comments about another player, berated his coach and had a hand in turning the locker room against him, didn't know the playbook a few weeks into the season, has defended the actions of Vick, etc, etc, etc, and now this. Someone needs to tell the guy to just play the damn game, all of this other nonsense isn't needed.
Do we really want the NFL to become the circus that the NBA has become? There are rules for a reason, the NFL wants to keep the sport respectable the same way that we here at thephins want to keep this board respectable. We could allow people to do whatever they want regardless of TOS, but would that make this site (or any site) better? Just like the NFL we expect our members to act a certain way, we value quality, and so does the NFL.
i don't have a problem with ocho cinco and TO when it comes to celebrating. i have a problem if they rip into their teammates and things like that. but hoestly, i don't find anything wrong with celebrating a great play. Porter's play didn't cost us anything.
I'm not saying anything about the site. All we're doing is debating and sharing various opinions, which is a normal and intelligent thing to do. My point was about "unsportsmanlike conduct" and how the NFL chooses to prioritize. According to the league, you can get caught with/doing coke and play for another 10 or 11 weeks, but we'll be damned if you celebrate a big play at nobody's expense. Which do you think makes the league look worse and diminishes quality?
don't see how celebrating a play takes away from the game. as long as he isn't literally in another player's face taunting them its fine.
I disagree with you, but that is just a great statement, cracked me up. I understand everything you are saying, but don't want to argue anymore so lets just agree I am right and be done.. I think Mike(L2G) is making the best arguement for my side, I defer to him.
if its a 3rd down play he does that and they get a first out of that no crap people will rip into him, in that case he wasn't aware of what was going on and he made an idiotic decision. in this case there is literally, NO downside to what he did.
Are you referring to Porter throwing his helmet off? I screamed at the TV and couldnt believe what I witnessed when he did that. He should have known better and I am glad he got the penalty and hopefully will recieve a stiff fine for it. Hes a 10 year vet, the schmuck should have known better. Actions like that could cost us game's.. Just imagine if he did something like that and the Refs gave the ball back to SF along with 15 yards. Thankfully, it didnt affect the outcome of the game, but this team overcomes way too many close calls with crappy teams and one of these times we arent going to be able to overcome something.
the ruling is a post possession penalty does not effect a turnover on downs. No offense to you it is pretty common knowledge. not sure if he receives a fine for it.
We are now making comparisons to a DUI and Porter throwing his helmet off when the game was over. What a ridiculous comparison and I'm sure if it was another player who did this it wouldn't be as big a deal as it seems a majority here dislike Porter.
I love his fire and as penalties go, this one was harmless, but with is MO of trash talking, he also has a tendency to go too far as well...This was one of those times...good leaders don't do that...again, it turned out to be harmless as to the outcome of the game, and if we'd been up by more than one score, I'd have been even less concerned, but we weren't and what effect does that kind of thing have on the younger players ???
This post here shows your strong dislike maybe even hatred towards Joey Porter because he isn't a happy go lucky guy who keeps his mouth shut at all times. I don't laugh at TO I find him annoying to be honest because he kills every team he has been on and the media can't get enough of him, I have no problem with Chad Johnson all he wants to do is have fun and people bash him for it. I know you will bring up him falling asleep in a meeting and getting into arguments with his coach so I will respond by saying he wasn't the first and won't be the last to fall asleep in a meeting. The arguments with the coach likely came out of frustration with the team continuing to lose and he is being forced to play in place where he wants out of. There isn't hatred between the two I think they are close but Chad wants to win and he can't do that in Cincy. He was one of the many players in the locker room who had problems with Cam but was the only one who had the cojones to stand up and say something, the casino thing was bad, do you have a link saying he didn't know the playbook a few weeks into the season and who cares about his personal opinions about Vick, Burress etc. they are his opinions should he just agree with the majority because they think it was wrong.
I know brother, just making the comparison to point out that the NFL doesn't want to end up like the NBA. Well, you take one incident in which the player was ultimately suspended after he was allowed to appeal. Should the NFL abolish the appeals process altogether? It's not as if the NFL didn't consider that a big deal, they had rules to follow and allowing Jones to appeal was one of them. Unsportsmanlike conduct happens within a game, getting caught with drugs in your car does not. Porter was punished as soon as he broke the rules, Jones was suspended, but appealed and had his punishment delayed. So the situations are different.
First of all, I don't hate anybody. I dislike the way in which Porter conducts himself, but I respect his ability out on the field. With that said, you can't deny that he has been a lightning rod for controversy during his time in the NFL. I didn't bother to mention some of the other distractions that have followed this guy around, everything from his dogs getting loose and killing a miniature horse to Porter getting shot in the ***. It's one distraction after another with this guy. So in my mind the comparison to TO or Johnson is a valid one. My gripe with all 3 is that they make themselves bigger than the game and upstage their teammates to draw attention to themselves. Chad Johnson is a great example of that, and while the fact that he fell asleep during a team meeting isn't severe, it shows a lack of professionalism and dedication. But the thing that bothers me the most about him was the way he conducted himself in the offseason, going infront of every camera that he could find and professing his love for every team he could think of. One day it was the Phins, the next day it was the Pats, the next day he was begging players and coaches at the ProBowl to trade for him. How does that make his teammates feel? That isn't a leader, that's a spoiled brat that only cares about himself. Maybe Porter's helmet throw didn't go that far, but it's farther than he should have gone. I like my football players to play hard and be respectful to their teammates, Porter only fits part of that description.
Thats who he is and what he does. Thats just it. He brings the intensity, and the "Never say quit" mentality and he never gives up on a play. When he celebrates, celebrates with passion. Thats what he is and the "baggage" he comes with. In number of interviews people tried to bring it up. His answer is always the same "Talking trash is part of me and the way I play" Not talking trash = not Joey Porter = Different football player. So if any behavior changes equals his decrease of intensity and big play ability on sundays, im against it. These distractions dont affect him any way (if you dont count the fact that he got shot in the ***) He was never suspended. He has been fined for only speaking his opinion. He delivers on the filed, and he doesnt "cry" about thing ala TO or 85. And while there are times I wish he should keep his mouth closed, I (and some other people might agree with me) Dont care what he does/says as long as it doesnt lead to suspensions, as long as he keeps playing the way he does with the mentality that he does.
Porter was flat out wrong for drawing that penalty, but I won't bash him, nor will I blame him for the show of emotion. While he is a bit on the selfish side, I think he fits into our current roster perfectly, it's easier to win a hand of poker when you've got a wild card.
I knew that already, when I said "Just imagine if he did something like that and the Refs gave the ball back to SF along with 15 yards." I meant if it was 3rd down or something of that nature where the play would have been affected. My point is it was a stupid move and he should know better. Under no circumstance, aside from injury, are you allowed to take your helmet off on the field during a game. I really hope he gets fined for it.
I think it depends on how you were brought up... I don't think there is a right or wrong answer in this situation, but how you were brought up. If you were brought up with Csonka, Griese, and those guys like Marty, then you have an old school belief system... But look at myself and Sick, we were brought up with guys like Terrell Owens, Joe Horn, and Joey Porter who did their thing and let people know about it. We don't care if they back it up. This is really nothing to get worked up over.. The fact is though, football players 30 years ago showed little emotion on the field compared to today... Today? They show a lot of emotion. That's how I want to see a game played... I don't want to see a player walk off the field as if nothing happened, however I don't want them going overboard. Drawing a penalty when you had nothing to lose other than kneeling the ball 15 yards further back... is not going overboard.
If anyone happened to notice the play clock actually expired,there should have been a delay of game penalty.If they would have called it they would have retained the ball,add porters 15 yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty.Which would have been a dead ball foul,and we have ourselves a nightmare.
Both sides have good points, I'm one of the Fans who thought it was simply awesome...we haven't had a reason to be psyched for a long time, JP was mirroring what most fans (IMO) felt once we had nailed down a winning record. Now the downside of it is, this is the second on the field episode of JP getting out of hand and letting his emotions become a piece of the game in a detrimental manner. That ain't good Leon... We will be playing games that count, JP has tame himself.
I don't think that matters. I think dead ball fouls are outside of accept/decline issues, committed is commited.... I think.
i'm actually pretty sure its a dead ball foul and stops the play. also, as to the previous poster's comments, since it'd be a dead ball foul the play would have been called dead and therefore there couldn't have been a penalty on porter i don't defend porter for everything he does, but in this case i could have cared less. i'm sure he knows the rules, and was saying to himself pre-play "i hit this son of a b and the game is over. end the game joey, end the game" so when he hit him, his mind was saying "game is over" and he ripped his helmet off in celebration. he certainly isn't the only person to take his helmet off ever and certainly won't be the last. in this case i think its fine
porter has made plays on 3rd down before, there is no reason to assume that he would that if was 3rd down instead of 4th down. he should know better? know better for what? drawing an insignificant penalty? i'm pretty sure he knew taking off his helmet was a penalty, he also knew it didn't effect the game one bit.
No, I don't think so. Like when a team takes a delay of game for better field goal position (like if they are at the opponents 1 yard line and on the right/left hash mark and need more room for the kicker), the opposition will normally decline it... so the kicker has to work with the bad field position.
This debate should go down as one of the most sillyest ever. Years ago before the NFL became the No fun league no one on here would of been talking about this , my how the times have change. Someone on here said " that's only 20 " said something about players today play with more emotion, thats not true at all.Players now ah days get fined for every lil thing they do or say and are much more afeard to show any real emotion. I'm 34 and back in the 70' and 80's if a player did what JP did no one would of said any thing about it.
