Ive said the same thing 2 or 3 times but noone is listening. Agreed though, much to our surprise, Atlanta does have a very good oline this year. Top 10 I believe.. Those who say Atlanta doesnt isnt watching Atlanta play
Makes me sick.. Hopefully Henne can cure this ill. Imagine if CP had Brees arm strenght with CP accuracy and ball placement.. WOW!! Granted longer throws are lower percentage throws compared to CP shorter, higher percentage throws... but still.. be nice to see more than twice a game.
We already had a good LT in Carey. If Ryan turns out to be a stellar QB, we did not make the best choice. Period. Now, it isn't a "wrong" choice, but not the best choice.
There's the wording I was looking for. Not a mistake, but not the best choice. We just have to keep our fingers crossed that Henne is the guy otherwise this will be yet another chapter in Miami's book of "How to Just Say NO to a Franchise QB".
Top 10 LTs are harder to find than top 10 QBs. Reality is that great QBs are found in every round and even in FA. Great LTs are almost always drafted in round 1 and I can't remember the last time one hit FA. If both Ryan and Long go on to probowl careers than Long was the right choice. Simply b/c we'll have multiple opportunities to find an all-pro QB (maybe we already did in Henne). Obviously, you still have to make the right decision, but the opportunities have been there. If we had passed on the LT we might go another 10 years before we had the opportunity to get one again.
There may be less "elite" LTs out there, but Elite QBs help your team more than an elite LT does. You can mask a not so great LT, you can't mask a shoddy QB. NYG LT from last year just slid right over and performed. You take a QB ten times out of ten. I find it hillarious you say we just go for QBs in later rounds, multiple opportunities etc. I also find it curious that in this discussion (this isn't at you rafael) that our line from last year became super duper crappy all of a sudden. They were peforming well last year until of course disaster struck our whole team.
Jones Walter Seattle Seahawks 1st round Thomas Joe Cleveland Browns 1st round Peters Jason Buffalo Bills undrafted Pace Orlando St. Louis Rams 1st round McNeill Marcus San Diego Chargers 2nd round Light Matt New England Patriots 2nd round Samuels Chris Washington Redskins 1st round McKinnie Bryant Minnesota Vikings 1st round Adams Flozell Dallas Cowboys 2nd round Clifton Chad Green Bay Packers 2nd round Brady, Tom Patriots 6th round Manning, Peyton Colts 1st round Cutler, Jay Broncos 1st round Manning, Eli Giants 1st round Rivers, Philip Chargers 1st round Roethlisberger, Ben Steelers 1st round Palmer, Carson Bengals 1st round McNabb, Donovan Eagles 1st round Brees, Drew Saints 2nd round Romo, Tony Cowboys undrafted here's a breakdown of essentially the top players at their positions. It seems to me that you can just as easily get a left tackle in the 2nd round as the 1st whereas its myuch more difficult to get a top quality QB outside of the 1st
Ronnie Brown had more total yards at this same time last year than this and yet some say our line is better?? By the end of the year, yes I hope so, but not yet.
Right and teams have won the Superbowl without having an elite QB, but many teams see their seasons go down the crapper because they can't protect their QB. What people need to remember is that Parcell's and Co. focused on fixing the OL and DL, QB wasn't as high a priority because this is going to be a run oriented team that wins the battles in the trenches.
Stats of the RB are only one thing that you look at, you also look at QB pressures, sacks given up, etc. IMO the OL is much better, last year we had defenders in the backfield alot more than we do now. I remember too often last year Ronnie was dodging defensive players in the backfield as soon as he touched the ball, that's something that we aren't seeing this year.
I guess I'm in the minority, but I think we did better than we would have if we drafted Ryan. Why? Well we have a solid and getting better every week OL, can't win in this league without it. And as L2G and Rafeal have said, you can win a Superbowl without an elite QB. We drafted Merling, which I don't think we do if we drafted Ryan. In fact our whole draft would have been different, we could be without Merling and Langford. Yes, Henne needs to prove himself still, but seems to have the tools. So I will stick with this draft. (not that I have a choice)
You can also win the superbowl without an elite LT. How many elite LTs are there anyway, 3? 4? And we forget, we had a good LT already. Carey was good enough in the LT spot according to those who know how to grade him. Who says we don't pick up a RT in the draft and build a solid line? For those with more acute analysis ability, how has Jake Long performed? I saw him get manhandled by someone not named Mario Wiliams on Sunday. Even though mario got the sack, Jake got pushed into Pennington which forced him forward into Mario's loving hands.
Name one that was drafted after the 32 pick? We all knew Long would have a Long (No pun intended) day against Williams.
Matt Ryan reminds me of Favre. Throwing off his back foot, trusting his arm to make plays that maybe he shouldn't and so on. He may end up being a great QB and has certainly showed hints of that this season, but I also think that it's going to come back and bite him in the butt that he tries to make all the throws he does.
But your goal should be to build a winning team. You need good lines and a decent QB at a minimum. A great QB alone won't get you there. Reality is that looking at just the past 10 years we've passed on (in the draft or FA) many QBs who went on to be at least decent somewhere else. I can't remember one LT that we passed on. Just this year we picked up a QB who is rated 6th in the NFL. (In fact he is out performing Ryan) A QB like that is usually available every couple of years. If you believe that you can pick a QB and you have a 3 year rebuilding plan (like Parcells said we did) then you take your one shot at the LT when you get it and believe you'll acquire the QB within the next few years. Also while our oline wasn't horrible early last year we had some holes. Carey was ok at LT but wasn't a guy you could leave on an island. We had no RT either. You can't mask both sides. And IMO the rating many had on Ryan wasn't much higher than what many had on other QBs in the draft. So the upside to taking Ryan vs those other guys wasn't worth the higher cost. On the other hand, you had Long and what most saw as a large drop off to the Clady, Otah group. I also don't think most had Ryan rated as a can't miss prospect while Long generally was. So I don't agree that it makes sense to take the lower overall rated prospect at a position that's easier to fill with other similarly rated guys available at that same position over the higher overall rated prospect at the harder position to fill with no other similarly rated guys at that same position.
There were a few OT/OGs picked up after him. The fact remains, it's easier to find an RT than it is an elite QB, no? We found a donald thomas all the way in the 6th round. That wasn't Mario he was facing when he got overpowered. It wasn't even a swift move or anything.
It's not just about the draft. Here are the top 10 rated QBs in the NFL this season: Passing (Qualified* | All) Rk Player Team Pos Comp Att Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD Int 1st 1st% Lng 20+ 40+ Sck Rate 1 Philip Rivers SD QB 102 165 61.8 27.5 1,489 9.0 248.2 14 4 65 39.4 67 23 9 8 109.4 2 Drew Brees NO QB 159 224 71.0 37.3 1,993 8.9 332.2 12 6 82 36.6 84T 26 9 6 105.0 3 Tony Romo DAL QB 128 200 64.0 33.3 1,689 8.4 281.5 14 5 72 36.0 72T 24 7 7 103.5 4 Brett Favre NYJ QB 112 157 71.3 31.4 1,124 7.2 224.8 13 6 59 37.6 56T 13 4 12 103.0 5 Kurt Warner ARI QB 149 213 70.0 35.5 1,708 8.0 284.7 12 5 86 40.4 79T 16 4 13 102.8 6 Chad Pennington MIA QB 94 137 68.6 27.4 1,101 8.0 220.2 5 2 50 36.5 80T 13 2 9 98.8 7 Aaron Rodgers GB QB 124 193 64.2 32.2 1,482 7.7 247.0 11 4 62 32.1 62 18 7 13 98.0 8 Jason Campbell WAS QB 115 179 64.2 29.8 1,262 7.1 210.3 6 0 61 34.1 67T 14 2 12 96.2 9 Ben Roethlisberger PIT QB 79 124 63.7 24.8 947 7.6 189.4 7 3 49 39.5 49 7 3 18 95.7 10 Jay Cutler DEN QB 146 228 64.0 38.0 1,694 7.4 282.3 12 5 81 35.5 72 21 3 2 94.8 Of the top 10 we could have drafted or traded for 7 of them in the last few years. Top LTs are only available in the draft. Here's an article excerpt talking about this: Teams in search of a left tackle need not dispatch scouts to Saskatchewan, Barcelona and Grand Rapids. They need not set up a visit with every street free agent who fills up a doorway. They need not butter up agents of undrafted players with fruit baskets and sweet-whispered promises. All anyone in need of a left tackle has to do is select one in the first round of the draft. As cows come from farms, left tackles come from first rounds. Last season, 20 of the league's 31 starting left tackles--64.5 percent--were first-round picks. Left tackles aren't like quarterbacks, receivers, defensive backs or interior offensive linemen--all of which can be found in many of the same places as loose change. The elite skill of the left tackle is so clearly definable that left tackles rarely slip through the cracks. Only two of the starting left tackles in the league last year were undrafted coming out of college--Barry Sims of the Raiders and Derrick Deese of the 49ers. There are fewer left tackle prospects than prospects at most other positions. Phil Savage, Baltimore's director of college scouting, says the Ravens start out with 25 prospects on their board who can play tackle, compared with 50 who can play on the interior. And less than half of those 25 have quick enough feet to play the left side, where players must be both strong enough to stop a power rusher and quick enough to head off a speed rusher coming around the corner on the quarterback's... The hit parade at left tackle.
I understand your reasoning and I have always stood by the premise that the three positions you must have are QB, pass rusher and LOT (and CB for teams that play a lot of man to man). I guess where I differ is that I have left tackle as third on that list and QB first. I think you can compensate for not having a left tackle by having a tight end, guard, fullback and running back all help out while there is no way to compensate for having an average or poor QB or average or poor pass rusher. Still its a vital position since compensating for a poor LOT means that your losing a vital weapon on the field. Also, I find that every year produces a left tackle prospect or two or three whereas the surefire QBs come out every two or three years so when one appears like Matt Ryan or Jay Cutler you have to take them. This next year is completely bereft of QBs unless Stafford comes out which means if we passed on Henne and Favre stayed retired we would be stuck with McCown and Beck for two more years in all likelihood. Its not as easy getting a QB as you make it sound IMO. I think our history or the Lions history has proven that Bottom line its just a different way of viewing the game and positions and the worth of those positions. There's more than one way to build a championship team
Ryan was cant miss by quite a few professionals, although on internet sites he was largely disparaged because of the ints. Also quite a few people had questions about Longs feet and ability to play left tackle so he wasnt as much of a slam dunk and I'm not sure how much higher he was rated than Clady. I know I had Clady rated higher though I acknowledged he had a much higher bust factor due to the college he came from. Clady by the way, may be outplaying Long. Its tough to tell because they're running the Broncos blocking scheme which puts an emphasis on agility for linemen but I would say right now he's probably ahead of Long on the ROY list though its a slim, slim margin. He's a stone wall on pass protection although Long is better at run blocking. Its close and both seem to be suited for their schemes Bottom line is we picked one of the top three rookies with our first overall so we should pat ourselves on the back. We avoided the landmines that Chris Long and Vernon Gholston may end up being and Dorsey has been outplayed by Ellis so far. Its all about avoiding the bust and we definitely did that
Way too early to say whether Ryan will be an elite QB or whether Long will be an elite LT. We won't really be able to answer that question for a couple more years. However, the fact is we needed both a franchise QB and a franchise LT...it was just a question of which we would take first and Parcells is a big believer in building from the trenches. Just remember though: mediocre QBs have won the Superbowl many times. Mediocre offensive lines have very rarely done so.
True, but Elite LT does not equal elite Oline. Oline is made up of 5 players. A decent to solid LT can be a part of a good line. David Diehl slid over one spot and helped the Giants go and win the superbowl.
You had good instincts about him bro even though there many of our more notable posters who thought he would be a bust . And most of all I commend you for not gloating about your prediction. Having said that I am till happy we drafted Long and Henne
me too. Our first four picks (Long, Merling, Henne, Langford) were like Christmas at the Playboy Mansion for me and Donald Thomas was like returning for New Years
I'd sign up for this thread if it was a Brady Quinn vs. Ted Ginn thread. However I'm going to have to pass on Long vs. Ryan. The team picked the right guy. Long is going to dominate for years and years. Did you guys see Mario Williams tear our *** up on the right side last sunday? You can't win games if your QB is on his ***. Ask Tony Romo, he'll tell you all about it.
Yes I would but not about Colston. Remember Sean had to beg (according to insiders) Parcells to take on Tony Romo. So at this stage its Sean Peyton +1 and Bill Parcells -0.
Ryan should help the Falcons out and it looks like he will be a good QB, but there is no gaurantee he would have been any better as a QB here. He sounds like he is a sharp guy and learned the playbook fast, but I think we have our LT for the next ten years.
i still think Long was the right pick. a lot of us have been preaching we need to build the trenches and we finally got a chance to do that.
current performance does not reflect future I understand this, but what it shows is the Ryan is a real NFL quarterback. He is on a poor team and has made a major improvement in the KEY position on the team. He is the main piece in a huge puzzle but they seem to have found the perfect fit.. the question simply was if Ryan pans out to be the REAL deal NFL hall of fame type QB we will be kicking ourselves.
Yeah, I'll admit to being in the "Matt Ryan is not worth the #1 pick" crowd, and considering our needs andthe talent available, I still stand by that. He has done well so far, but it's too early to tell if he's "elite". But I give ya credit Adam, you were one of Ryan's biggest fans and it looks like he may have a pretty good career ahead of him. Whether he would have had the same success here is another thread all by itself. I wanted Chris Long, he isn't doing much right now, but he's also playing in a different scheme (The Rams are a 4/3, right?). In the Miami D he would have been playing the Matt Roth role, which I think would suit him better than a 4/3 DE. Gholston seems to be a box of rocks, the NY papers were saying he was having trouble grasping their D, so that was a dodged bullet. But again, he has the potential, too early to write anyone off.
But that's jumping way ahead, and while Ryan has done well, he hasn't done well enough to really warrant that comparison/suggestion IMO.
good point about chris long in the 4-3 versus 3-4. he probably is better suited for the 3-4. i only watched one rams game (thats enough torture) and thats when they played the giants in week 2 i believe. he couldnt do anything that game and that was a game where he actually got a sack (1 of 2 for the season). when i tell you he couldnt do anything i mean he would take two steps and just get engulfed by the lineman completely taken out of the play. he was being driven back three to five yards on more than a few occasions. the sack he got was a play where eli didnt have anyone open and just stayed in the pocket and drifted into chris's area looking downfield. it was a coverage sack more than pressure applied by him. but we'll see how he develops going forward. same with gholston. i definitely think jake has shown more than chris in terms of future potential at this early stage
Sorry but I don't believe Ryan has proven anything yet Matt Ryan 82.9 QB rating 5/3 TD/INT...he's doing well enough, but I wouldn't say his performance puts him into any elite category. He's been a part of ATLs 4 wins, but I'm not so sure it's accurate to point to him as the impetus behind those wins. Our OL had been neglected for way too many years. Long was the right choice.
