I don't think he has regressed at all at WR. I don't even think his return skills have regressed at all, though perhaps his confidence in this years return scheme from last years has (possibly due to lack of reps?). And the FO won't hesitate to cut someone who doesn't show value to the team, but truth of the matter is Ginn is more valuable to us than anyone else, and it makes no sense to cut him (financially or even from a onfield/team standpoint) until after next year. I never said running out of bounds or letting punts bounce is going to get it. I also don't see where people get that he can't run routes, as I have seen him run plenty of variety of routes in all the times I have seen him this year. Do you guys mean he doesn't run crisp routes? Then yea, he has plenty to work on, but so do like 90% of the WRs in the league and most of them aren't 2nd year guys. I definitely think his routes are better this year then last though.
Please tell me how many times Bess has returned one for 6 in his football Career? PLEASE TELL ME because quite frankly Ive seen Bess bring it out to midfield ONCE Dude are you serious? I COULD HAVE THROWN THAT. Cobbs was WIDE ****ING OPEN and that seems to be the only time Pennington throws it when its GUARANTEED. LOL IVe already said he was a project at WR. John Beck had no problem finding Ginn last year neither did Cleo Lemon. Just admit that Pennington is not going to wait for Ginn to finish his route Pennington isn't patient enough for Ginn on his short comings as a Route Runner. Pennington will always choose the safe throw which is a great thing he will throw to who ever is open, the problem is Ginn isn't breaking when Pennington looks his way and were talk a .5-1 sec look Ginns way if Ginn is open or hasn't broke his route Pennington will look to another WR.
Which means Ginn has exactly 1 more TD than Bess in 5 times as many tries, and including that 1 (ONE) long punt return, he still has worse numbers than Bess...take away that 1 (ONE) 87 yard TD and he has less than half the average of Bess.
I don't care at least he has the capability to return one for 6. OOOOOO Bess gets out to the 25 Awesome 5 yards better than taking a knee in the endzone.
That's true I dont know which is why I said I "doubt". No one on this board knows absolutely. It's all opinion. My opinion is Both Bess and Ginn can be valueble assets but Ginn appears to be having issues. I think Bess is doing well and will get better. Ginn has physical potential that I would love to see come out in his play. I would guess Parcells and crew are doing everything they can to help Ginn progress without sacrificing live team play as any manager would for an emplouee that the company is paying.
What? Next time Ginn returns a Kick-off for a touchdown will be the first time. In regards to Kick-returns, Ginn had an average of 22.7 yards last year. This year, Bess is 22.2 yards per kickoff.
Yeah, I guess even a blind squirrel will eventually find a nut. Ginn had 63 tries at it last year.....just saying. Listen, I DO think that Ginn should be in on KR right next to Bess, Not sure why he isnt, but I am not Tony Sparano. Just saying all this nonesense about how much better he is than Bess is statistically shown to not even be close to being true. Here, go look it up yourself. Have fun Miami Dolphins Stats
And you'd rather have someone that will return one for a TD once or twice a year, yet consistently mishandles punts and kills our field position; than someone who consistently get under the ball and never breaks one? Please. Ginn should only be returning punts when field position is not an issue. I've seen him let too many balls bounce 15 yards because he can't get under them.
Well, you can look at Greg Jennings second year stats and Brandon Marshall's second year stats. Ginn as of yet, has not cut it. I'm not giving up on him, but he is running out of time, this staff will be looking for WR's in FA and the draft.
Not saying those guys aren't good, i was just saying 1st rounders from last year. And as to the last part (as in the whole sentence) I agree with all of it, except for the bolded part. I only say that because I think hagan is gone after this year unless something drastic happens, london could potentially be gone if we find an upgrade, and Wilford may be gone. I think Ginn, Camarillo, and Bess are the only safe ones. So I expect them to go after WRs in draft and FA regardless of Ginn's performance(s), though his play may influence exactly where we choose to go after WRs at (draft range/FA money).
except we are all talking about kick returns. Where Bess is if not last close to last in Avg. return. Bess has been good on punt returns.
I do have to say, considering the other WR's on the list, yeah he might stick another year...but it depends on who becomes available via FA and where we end up in the draft.
when people say Ginn is running out of time i laugh. His cap hit alone protects him from getting cut. Jason Allen, who has been unable to get on the field in his 3 seasons as a pro, is only on the team because of the cap hit we would take from it.
I am not saying that Pennington's arm strength is the reasoning. I am say it's his style of play (quick release passes, that's why his completion percentage is so high.. he throws 5-7 yard passes. Again, not a bad thing, just doesn't suit Ginn at this moment) that does not blend well with Ginn. Another reason why Camarillo is succeeding, because his style of play blends with Pennington. Pennington is not a long term answer, I would bet if he starts next year, it'll be his last year starting for Miami. Fact is though, Pennington is holding back Ginn because of his STYLE OF PLAY, not his arm strength. And that play you show to prove that Pennington has arm strength... No one was around Cobbs, all Pennington has to do is loft is up there with no touch whatsoever. Pennington can throw it deep enough, we get that... But he can't throw it deep like that with touch.. And that's why I'm excited for Chad Henne/John Beck, whomever succeeds in Miami.
Pennington is holding back Ginn, or Ginn is holding back Ginn? If Ginn is going to be a legitimate #1 WR, he needs to be able to do everything, not just some things.
I never fully expected Ginn to be an elite #1 receiver... His stock was so high because he offered a good receiving threat AND a good return threat. If he couldn't return kicks, I bet you he goes in the 2nd round... You can compare them all you want, be disappointed all you want... But those teams you guys bring up have a sense of direction that we never really had up until this year...
It depends on what expectations you have of him.. I don't expect him to be a #1 WR, I expect us to draft one in the first round next year or bring one in through trade or free agency. I don't buy the "He was the #9 overall pick, he better be a #1 receiver" argument because I stated previously... He wouldn't have been a #9 overall pick if it wasn't for his return abilities...
Kinda like matt cassel had to do with randy moss? except pennington put more touch on his pass which made it into cobbs hands whereas cassel didn't put touch on it and it ended up in front of and to the left of moss. (i'm talking about last nights SD game). pennington is accurate through and through. you aren't considered the most accurate QB with X amount of throws for no reason.
What? Bess is barely behind where Ginn was last year Bess is at 22.2 while Ginn was at 22.7 last year. Guess that extra 18" makes quite a difference....Yeah, now I see what your talking about...
You're comparing a quarterback who is essentially a rookie and a quarterback who has been in the league for over what? 10 years? You're also comparing a quarterback who was drafted for who he played behind (Leinart, Palmer) compared to a quarterback who was drafted for how he played. You're comparing freaking Matt Cassell to Chad Pennington for crying out loud.
Every inch means something... Ginn did this with crap for special teams, Bess did this with a decent special teams... Leave Bess on punt returns, that's fine with me... But for the love of God, put Ginn on kick returns..
okay. tony romo missed a pass that should've been made this weekend, too. cassel isn't even essentially a rookie he's been in the league four years.
You're really nit picking, aren't you? I said Cassell is ESSENTIALLY a rookie... He was never a starter at USC, he played behind the likes of Carson Palmer and Matt Leinart... Then he was drafted in the 7th round or something by New England... And who does he back up there? Oh wait... Some guy named Tom Brady... Yeah, Cassell is a real veteran with some good experience.... tsk tsk...
Wait a minute...you are beating yourself here champ. Correct, Ginn DOES have Chad Pennington trying to get him the ball...... Also, I agree with your next post, and have been. Put him in on KR, NEXT to Bess. Create some plays...but for whatever reasons, they aren't doing this, and I still say that coaching staff knows more than you, I, Pete...heck probably as much as Boomer.
His cap value is like 1.7 which is not much, so laugh away. We could also trade him. Chambers cap value was 7.3 Million if your looking to compare.
I hate to go here, but there's another guy that people were consistently deflecting his shortcomings as a wideout to our QB.
Yeah, I WOULDNT go there. Chambers was what he was. He is also the best WR we have had since ohhhh probably Irving Fryar... or even the Marks brothers. Realistically, there arent enough #1 recievers for everybody to have 1. I dont think there are enough true #1 for 1/2 the teams to have one. We havent had one in quite some time, but Chambers is definately the best I remember in recent history
