The thing though is the Dolphins would stupid to trade Hill before June 1st due to the hit on the cap. So would the Ravens or any other team trade a 2nd round pick for the 2026 draft? Maybe a 2nd for THIS year’s draft but not next years.
I’m not suggesting they should trade him before June 1st. Any trades concerning draft picks would need to be picks in 2026. I don’t think it would matter for a team looking for Tyreek now if it was a 2025 or 2026 pick.
My entire comment was talking about Echols getting to him. I was surprised he got close enough to trip him up on the dive. Achane is fast, I never expect to see him caught from behind.
Echols was one of the fastest CBs in his draft class, one site had his 40 time as 4.36 and an other 4.34 and had a free run from deeper up field. Meanwhile, Achane (who ran a 4.32 at the combine) had to cut and take contact from 27, but he still beat Echols. I just don't know what you were expecting. It wasn't a foot race. A person running a 4.30 forty yard dash will be a little less than 22 inches in front of someone running a 4.35 after 40 yards. How long is a stride? How long is an arm? If Waddle sees the safety in time and blocks him even a little that's a TD.
Sure. I didn't know that AT THE TIME. When I was watching the game I didn't know anything about him, and when I made the original post, I didn't know. All I was saying was that when I was watching it, when Achane broke through into the open field, I was really surprised to see him get caught from behind by Echols. That's it.
We’re so used to the SPEED of our skill players that when we see one they caught and tackled, at first we tend to think they’re losing a step.
The NFL has evolved into a sport where at the WR position, almost all guys are toast by the time they reach age 31. A handful are productive at 32. Almost none are beyond that. This past season was the most extreme yet. One player had more than 745 yards at 32+, DeVante Adams with 1063. Even more striking is that only seven players over the age of 25 had 1000 yards, and none of them reached 1100. The WR position has become a very young man's game, with the top 14 this season under the age of 26. Tyreek turns 31 in March 1. He's been playing hurt since December of 2023. Whatever time he has left is quickly running out, and trading him for anything of value would be a win, because the odds of him living up to his 28m cap number next season are really, really low. Had Grier not stupidly given him a free money extension last season, we could have easily moved on this year. How fans saw this coming and the team did not is sad.
Let’s not forget he also signed an injured, 32 year old OBJ to be our number 3 WR. Granted, it wasn’t for top tier $, but for the contributions we got, every dime was a waste. PS. Interesting stuff about the state of the WR position, Unlucky.
Its been trending this way gradually since the 2011 CBA, when they started to get tougher on PEDs. My educated guess is that players who were already in the league were grandfathered in to a degree, and ended up still having longer careers because of that. But virtually any player at the WR position who's coming into the NFL since then as a rookie has had a STEEP drop off in their production and skills between 30 and 32, if they made it that far. The few who remain at a higher volume are almost always slower, possession types. Among all WRs to enter the league after 2011, the player with the most catches after age 30 is Adam Thielen, with 288. Next is Danny Amendola with 259, then Keenan Allen all the way down to 178. All three of them slower, short route types. This has also been largely true at other positions like the OL and LBs, they just don't have the easy counting stats that the WR group does.
I think a bigger reason is that these guys are just letting up sooner because they can. They make so much more money today. They make their money, let up, and retire sooner. In 1995, the entire Dolphins team made $15m. PED’s are still rampant in pro sports. Watch what happens to an offensive lineman a year or two after they retire. Look what happened to Gronk. He un-retired and added like 20lbs in one offseason. Not fat weight, muscle. That’s PED related.
Yeah they can cycle all off season, and come off the roids just long enough to pass their drug test before the season.
That doesn't explain the steep decline that guys see as they get around 30, especially with players who clearly want to keep playing but aren't the same any longer. DeAndre Hopkins has dropped way off since age 28, now in his fifth season since then, skipping around. Julio Jones dropped way off after age 30, played four seasons after that, skipping around. AJ Green dropped way off after age 29, played five seasons after that. Davante Adams dropped way off after age 30, has played three seasons since then. Stephon Diggs saw a signifigant drop off from age 29 to 30, then was on pace to drop again last year before missing half the year. Those are the best guys to come into the league since the point I spoke about. Of the top 25 receiving yardage seasons after age 32 in NFL history, zero of them have come since 2013, and none of them by a player drafted after 2002. This despite the passing game opening up more than ever, QB passing stats growing more than ever, and the addition of the 17th game. Point being, anyone expecting Tyreek to put up numbers anywhere in the vicinity of what he did in 2022 and 2023 from this point on is hoping that he does something no one has in more than a decade, since Reggie Wayne and Anquon Boldin had 1200 to 1300 yards.
Here's a nice article on that from 2021. The author notes that it actually started happening from the early 2000's. And it's only gotten worse since then, especially since 2017. https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2021/12/24/22852551/nfl-wide-receiver-age-decline-over-30-cooper-kupp The only explanation he proposes is "the draft is not only more rich with wideout talent than ever, but teams are also looking for pass-catchers at tight end and running back more than previously", which means they're less willing to take on the risk of an older WR.
Hopefully Grier isn't allowed to make another choice that adds money beyond 2025. I don't trust him to get value trading anyone away, but just ridding ourselves of Tyreek is a win regardless.
Another problem - even if Grier did get decent value on a trade, say a second or a third and a fifth, do we trust him to pick the right players with those picks? In the words of the late great John Pinette: “I say nay nay”
Regardless of whether tyreek is back or not, the question is who is going to replace him? Waddle is not on prime Tyreek's level and won't be able to replicate the same production hill had in 2022-2023, especially if Hill is gone next year and defenses start to focus on Waddle more.
Other than keeping Tua healthy, the most important thing is improving the OL. Do that first, then fix the run game with REAL running plays, not tricks and cute junk. So that, then continue what they had with Jonnu and Achane this past season, which was great, and what Washington was adding in at the end. Do all of that, and then deeper passes to Waddle will be there a lot more often, especially via play action. And then, you can add a solid possession WR as the starter across from him who doesn't need to be anywhere close to what Tyreek used to be. The goal should to become a lot more like what the 49ers have been, which is where McDaniel came from, than the bombs away silliness that Miami did in 2022 and 23.
The collective fandom of Dolphin Land has been shouting that from the rooftops for years. We can only hope that Grier’s statements at season’s end means he finally heard.
Except Waddle had a full yard better average on Y/R this past season. Tyreek isn’t “prime Tyreek” anymore. Throw in more targets for Achane and Jonuu and I think the offense is just fine.
You don't think having Tyreek on the field affected how defenses played us? The other recievers benefited from.defenses doubling and tripling tyreek. Even if he was not producing like we are used to his presence still helped the offense this year.
I think having Tyreek definitely affected how defenses play us. But I don't think you need to replace like for like if you get rid of Tyreek. Get us a good 2nd TE (which is why I like the idea of picking Warren if it comes to that) or another possession WR and beat defenses by having enough targets. Tua's strengths are accuracy + speed of decision making, so he will probably be successful if you just have enough targets.
I agree with cbrad. Defenses have to account for him, but the dichotomy he seems to bring in regards to Tua forcing him the ball seems to hurt more than it helps because Tyreek has either lost a step or isn’t playing hard anymore. Spreading the ball around more, to guys just as fast as Tyreek, would be more beneficial.
Nobody on the team is as fast as a prime Tyreek, Waddle has never run over 23 mph like hill used to, and even now I think Tyreek is still the fastest on the team.
Tyreek's career top speed is 23.34, waddles career top speed is 21.68. There is a clear difference. You can also see it on the field, Waddle does not have quite the speed Tyreek has or had before this season. Even now I still think.Tyreek is a bit faster but thy are much closer now that Tyreek seems to have lost half a step with age.
Tyreek’s time was 10 years ago. Waddle’s time was 2 years ago. Waddle beat Tyreek in a race recently.
I think Armstead being in and out of the lineup really hurts the O line as a whole. The biggest issue over the last several years had been having a different lineup every week. They never get to develop chemistry. Armstead needs to go and we need to get the same five guys to be out there every week. The draft is the best route to go. If we take any position outside OL with the #13 pick then Grier is dumber than we thought.
Of course, this is not projected to be a great draft for OL, especially interior OL; maybe a trade down a few spots would be good and they could pick up a guy like Donovan Jackson or Tyler Booker and add another pick somewhere.
That would be ideal since TE, S, G are all positions of need but may not be worth the #13 pick. Starks maybe the only blue chip prospect that makes it to that spot.
Waddle jumped the gun when they raced, on the field Tyreek still looks faster than Waddle. And the numbers still bear it out. In Week 5 of the 2024 season, Hill reached 22.01 mph, that's still faster than Waddle's career best of 21.68.
You know what I really like about Waddle over Tyreek? He gets to the stadium on time. He doesn't get handcuffed for rolling up his window. He doesn't assault dock workers and he doesn't get a different girl pregnant behind his wife's back 5 or 6 times a year. He doesn't refuse to play and quit on the team. To me there's more important things than 40 times.
I wouldn’t be upset if they got Starks at 13. TE Warren would be another good get if they stay put - with him and Smith on the field, I would worry less about replacing Hill and spend more time developing the Washington wideouts.
A true Y TE like Warren would do wonders for our run game. And Warren has good hands, too. I’d be ecstatic if he was the pick at #13.
yeah, but, most teams are throwing to 3-4 other receivers not to mention the TE's. Back in the day there would be a #1 another WR, and TE wasn't always part of the passing game.
Well he doesn’t want out. that would be an even more dumb moves that what he’s shown as a dolphin. while I know he works hard and plays hard he’s very immature as a man, but so are most 29-30 year old men. Him staying here and being a good soldier is his ticket to a gold jacket. so shape up, keep you’re mouth, stop lying to the team and grow up….”Bruh”
Well, I'm not really comparing today to ancient history though. Most of those huge numbers were set in the 90s and early 2000s. Plenty of teams were throwing to RBs and TEs throughout that era.
