Raiders vs. Dolphins - Week 11

Didn’t like the games without Tua but that was probably mostly because of the practice squad QBs and not really on him and it seems like that he learned a big lesson during that stretch.

 

Yeah, offseason priority — and it's a priority — is developing a good backup QB. We should be picking a QB in round 1-3 or 4 at worst. It's hard to be a good backup in this timing-based offense. You can't just sign any journeyman. We need to develop a 2nd QB. I hope Grier at least understands that much.

 

I think Minshew would be a good fit, like they said on TV. Think he would fit the mold and would be a good backup to Tua or you draft someone, depending on how Tua holds up.

 

I agree he might work out, and the Raiders might cut him. But personally I want a longer term solution through the draft. It's always a good idea to draft QBs to develop anyway.

 

Yeah ok bud

This post actually exemplifies most of my issues with you guys. It's that you minimize anyone's experience/opinion that differs from your own.

 

Nope

Not convinced that Mcd has adapted to or sees the pattern in anything..... He has a long way to go to prove that.

 

Kind of like when you had to log on Sunday after the win and wonder why other people are excited for a win and that they shouldn't be.

 

Obviously we have to see how the season ends, but we never saw the ability to move the ball down the field in a systematic way like the last 2 games when the deep ball was taken away. That is definitely progress. So yes there is adaptation. Small sample size I agree.

 

Finally someone understands.

 

Film breakdown of Miami’s win against the Raiders.

 

Not sure about that JT had that bend coming out of college. I remember watching film of him in college and I was like how on earth can be bend like that and get around the tackle. It was very impressive.

Chop needs to realize his speed advantage and fake outside then rocket back inside. He did that on his first sack, but I've not seen it again from him.

 

When you dont draft well that is how you have to build a team.

 

It was a good win but let's face it this team is a long shot to make the playoffs and anything under a playoff win is a failed season.
24 years and counting so fans on the other side have every right to be pissed.

 

like Cbrad said it didn't work. Also it turned that Luck wasn't worth tanking for. He was a decent/good QB but nowhere near a Mahomes level QB.

 

Whether or not Luck worked out or not is unimportant to whether or not they tanked.

They thought Luck was the guy, and they tanked and grabbed him.

 

Of all the 'sure fire future HOFer' QBs I can remember being drafter no. 1 overall the only one worth tanking for has been Peyton Manning. (*John Elway doesn't make the cut because of all the other HOF QBs in that draft). Maybe someone with a longer memory can dig back further than I can, but relying on a once in 40 years occurrence to come by in your window of opportunity may not be the most efficient way to do business.

 

Cool. This is my issue with you. So weirdly sensitive. Disagreeing is not minimizing. You disagree with posts and express your opinion, but then post stuff like this, all boo hoo emotion and no point or fact. <-- that was minimizing. See the difference?

 

Hindsight is 20/20. We can sing all the praises in the world about Manning however prior to the 1998 draft, there was ***MUCH DEBATE*** as to who was going to be number 1; Peyton Manning or Ryan Leaf. There was no doubt they were being 1 and 2…the only question was who was going to be number 1.

That’s why all of the tank talk to me is utterly foolish. You never know what you’re going to get. For every Peyton Manning in a draft, there’s 3 or 4 Daniel Jones.

Mitch Trubisky was drafted by the Bears at number 2 I believe before Patrick Mahomes was drafted at 10.

I’ve used this analogy many many times before but it’s better to build the race car (team) first so when you find the driver (quarterback) he has something to drive.

Makes no sense to get the best race car driver in the world if all he has to drive is a 1967 VW Beetle.

 

I remember JTs pass rush coming together the first couple of years. He had the raw speed and bend as you mentioned, but he started putting it all together. Got stronger, started setting things up. Dialing up quickness in big situations. Chop doesn't have the flex, but he does have better power and transitions into a bull rush better than his size says he should, and better than JT did. I think 3 years from now Chop is going to be one of the greats. He still has to continue to develop, but he is on course.

 

Plus, Manning didn't have a good playoff game until he was six years in. Lost, and played terrible his first three appearances.

 

Took nine years to win a Super Bowl too.

 

Where have I ever said they should tank, first of all?

Second, just because they picked the wrong guy doesn't mean the strategy was wrong. If they hadn't tanked they wouldn't have even had probably had a shot at #1 pick.

I didn't bring up tanking. I was commenting on a post that brought it up.

 

The dismissive part that I was referring to, was you saying that I must miss posts because we aren't in agreement. Like it can't be that I disagree, I must just not have seen your posts.

 

You said firing Grier and tanking is "literally the only way out of the hell we're in".
https://thephins.com/threads/week-4-titans.99102/page-7#post-3658108

As far as tanking as a strategy, the fact there seem to be no successful attempts at it in the NFL is the reason the strategy is wrong. Winners aren't built that way.

 

History suggests it doesn't really matter when you get that elite QB. Just as it doesn't make such sense to have an elite QB without a good surrounding cast, it doesn't make sense to have a good surrounding cast without a great QB. Many examples of the QB being selected early in a successful rebuild process. Montana and Peyton are good examples.

 

Shhhh...he didn't mean to write those exact words and if he did (and you showed that he did) he didn't mean them.

Jeez...you're so mean.

 

Not my posts. You stated that no one was rooting for losses, when there are posts in this thread clearly doing that. Those are the posts you missed. I am trying to give you the benefit of the doubt and that you just missed those posts and aren't lying.

 

He himself advocated for losing.

Hell, in moments of anger I've said "bench all the starters and let the 2nd stingers on down play".

I don't deny that I've said it though.

 

Can't wait to hear the misinterpretation explanation of that one.

 

You mean Tom Brady was never any good because he was picked late in the 7th round?

 

TDK has argued one should first get all the other pieces in place then pick the QB. Not so much whether the QB was picked in a later round or not, but how a rebuild process should go. So the examples I gave were cases where the QB was picked well before the surrounding cast was in place. Brady probably doesn't work as an example because NE wasn't as bereft of talent when Brady was picked.

 

I just look at it this way…if your team is so bad, or you intentionally tank to get that top 5 pick, you have many many many more problems than just a quarterback.

I also look at it like this…if you have a good organization and a good coach, who just happened to either have a bad season ie; Kansas City Chiefs or just happen to have a talented quarterback fall into your lap ie; 1983 Miami Dolphins, that quarterback you draft is going to have a hall of fame career.

There are others who have different philosophy on building a team…some have examples of success, others do not but this just happens to be MY philosophy based on historical evidence of successful teams over the decades.

 

The early '90s Cowboys were built off tanking from the Hershel Walker trade. Specifically by cutting/not playing the players acquired so they would get draft picks instead.

You also have to factor in JJ creating and using the draft value chart before anyone else and his superior knowledge of college players. Which makes it near impossible to pull this again.

 

How would you feel if we tanked and ended up with Joe Burrow?

 

The only problem with that example is that the trade occurred during the 1989 season AFTER the 3-13 1988 season. In other words, there wasn't any room to "tank" from 3-13. They ended up 1-15 that year, so it was hardly tanking from 3 wins to 1.

But yes that's a great example of trading away an elite player for a bunch of draft picks that were key to a SB win. It's just not really a good example of tanking per se because the Cowboys were already in the gutter.

 

How would we feel if we traded up for Mahomes from 22nd to the 10th in 2017 instead of KC trading up from 27? How would we feel if they drafted L Jackson?

Why is tanking the answer? QBs taken 1st over all over the last 10 years goes, Caleb Williams, Bryce Young, Travor Lawrence, Joe Burrow, Kyler Murray, Baker Mayfield, Jared Goff, Jameis Winston. Bolded are the only sure fire hits at this point. The only 2 even worth considering trading Tua straight up for. 2 out of 8, with Williams and Young still being young, and Goff and Mayfield maybe turning it around after the team that drafted gave up. And, before you go making a bad argument that you'd take Goff or Mayfield over Tua, you could have gotten them without tanking or giving up Tua. Tanking is for dummies in the time of free agency.

 

Murray? I would not call him a sure fire hit nor would I trade Tua for him. He's only had 2 really good seasons out of 6. Tua is now on his 3rd consecutive statistically elite or near elite season. I also wouldn't want Lamar Jackson given his extremely poor playoff performances despite having an elite defense most of those years.

It's only Burrow I'd gladly trade Tua for (among the #1 picks you listed). I think we'd have won multiple playoff games with Burrow. But as you said the probability of finding that great a player at #1 is extremely low.