I agree that it's not just about the deep ball, but it's clear that it was also about the deep ball. It was just mostly hitman not StaleTacos in that particular case.
I agree with most of what you said except for the arm strength part, but yeah. I don't know why some don't want to accept that if he plays again, at some point, it is going to happen again. It's just common sense. At some point, it will happen again. Geez and as he gets older, the hits will effect him even more. The physics here are just another issue. lol. Not good.
I think you are misunderstanding his position. I maybe can throw a ball 30 yards, but it doesn't mean I can throw it at the same trajectory as Herbert. Both Tua and Herbert can hit the same receiver in stride at 30 yards, one however needs more anticipation and air on the ball to do so.
Sorry, but it's really not cool that you always call out other posters and he probably has made that point about arm strength as much or more than anyone.
No I understand his position. And deep ball stats will definitely be affected by the ability to do that, which is why they're meaningful to point out. The counter-argument is once again that performance is what matters, not arm strength. Who cares if you can't zip it if you can still complete the passes. Anticipation and accuracy are also important and can compensate for lack of arm strength. It's not just one variable that matters.
You better look at all warm weather teams, and even cold, then. The Jets have a worse record in colder temps than Miami, for example. And the Dolphins, since the late 70’s, are pretty bad in cold weather games.
Sorry, but in almost every case when I call out posters I'm right about what they said. I was even right about the deep ball being an issue linked with arm strength. It's just primarily hitman here. Furthermore, in many cases when I point out what was said in the past it's to show that people said something they claimed they didn't. That's important.
No. hitman made the point I made about arm strength more than anyone, but man, just stop. This calling other posters out is like 3rd grade school girl stuff.
I showed you two quotes already where he linked deep ball with arm strength: ability to throw 50 yards and throwing the deep ball in stride. And integrity matters, which is why it's important to see what people actually said when they explicitly say they didn't say that.
lol… Yeah, pointing out that others are lying when they said they didn’t say it and cbrad showing that they said it is being a big meanie.
Yeah there was an entire thread on it I linked to, not just one post. The deep ball was a major issue many anti-Tua posters brought up for a long time. It's not just a post here or there.
The ability to do what? Hit guys in stride? As I pointed out, Matt Ryan lead the category in that stat, it's not proof of arm strength. Again, the reason why one would care is it's limiting to the scheme to need so much anticipation and loft on the balls to make the same throw. Or maybe you just take some areas off the field entirely. Or maybe you can't run some off-platform throws you'd want to. That's why this stuff matters.
According to hitman8 it would be proof Tua doesn't have sufficient arm strength if it were true. You saw his quote. We're talking about him not you. All that's true, but in the end it's still performance that matters, i.e., can he compensate.
You're just going around in circles now. ...and you say who cares if you can't zip it as long as you complete the pass? lol. Uhh, it matter a great deal and any QB can complete more passes if they can...and do it under pressure. Any QB will tell you the same.
Only cuz you are. Feel free to stop. Like I said, it only matters if it affects performance. A lot of other variables matter than arm strength, so the question is can the QB compensate. Tua mostly has.
I did see his quote but I don't interpret it the same way as you do. Knowing his history and what he's said outside of the post. But I'll let him play your game. It's not really so much can you compensate but can you adjust and do something differently when you need to. If he comes back, IMO, this is only going to get worse, because he'll/they'll be that much more desperate to get rid of the ball as quickly as possible to avoid a hit.
It does effect the performance, but you don't know the plays that could have been if he was able to make those types of throws. It's an unknown you can't quantify, but it safe to say that there are missed opportunities and being able to throw in that type of way is going to open up your possibilities rather than limit them. We've all seen many missed opportunities and throws.
Yeah, when I say performance I don't mean relative to an ideal, I mean relative to the competition. If you're talking relative to an ideal we could criticize every QB and every player for every missed opportunity. As long as he's performing near the top of the league in key passing stats arm strength isn't an issue.
So, he has to compensate for lack of size, lack of mobility and lack of arm strength and now saddled with a history of concussions. Ok. Looking good.
It's funny that @hitman8 already addressed this but @cbrad oddly wasn't able to find this one in his search (despite @cbrad being the one he was talking to): "You guys deliberatly misrepresent things. Let me make it simple so you don't try to confuse things and argue over a strawman which you so often like to do. Tua has poor arm strength in that he has poor velocity on deeper throws and throws outside the numbers. He too often puts too much air under the ball and/or throws it very early with more anticipation on longer throws, and throws to the outside, to make up for his lack of arm strength. That thas been my point all along and I think it's also what Resnor is referring to when he say it's not just about throwing it 55 yards down field (Tua's in game record). Although I'm not going to put words in his mouth." https://thephins.com/threads/tua-hes-the-greatest-prospect-ever.98555/page-7#post-3589789 It's almost like he's trolling.
The history of concussions is the only serious one. The others he's demonstrated he can compensate for.
That quote from hitman isn't disputing the quote I linked to where he says he Tua doesn't have the arm strength to throw a deep ball that hits the WR in stride. It actually reinforces that quote. But of course we've seen Tua hit a WR in stride with a deep ball many times now.
...and can do it against good teams when there's a lot on he line in bad weather. lol. We just disagree on this one. Shocker?
Inability to perform well against good teams when playoffs are on the line I agree is an issue. Said that many times myself with the important qualifier that it's small sample size. But aside from that he's been able to compensate.
No, that's not what I meant, that's just another strawman argument. Hitting a guy in stride is not an indicator by itself of whether someone has arm strength or not. The key issue I argued was lack of velocity and having to throw with more anticipation and floating the ball more to overcome lack of arm strength and velocity.
And not having anticipation is limiting to some schemes. What are you even trying to say? Are you of the belief that all QB’s need to have elite traits across the board or else they can’t fit in a scheme? ALL QB’s, if coached right, play in schemes that fit their best traits.
You were very clear about Tua not having the arm strength to actually hit a guy in stride on a deep ball. It's fine if you want to claim you disagree with a previous post of yours, but your post was very clear. You said he couldn't do that, and of course he can. It's just part of the repeated goalpost-moving we saw once Tua showed he could do all kinds of things you said he couldn't do, you know like playing well with a bad OL, without Hill, etc. It's not a strawman, it's keeping track of moving goalposts.
That's not what I wrote, and it is a Strawman argument which is all you guys have at this point. Just sad.
For the record let's see what you actually wrote: https://thephins.com/threads/4-0-with-him-0-3-without.97835/#post-3497068 OK? That's what you actually wrote. You said Tua doesn't have the arm strength to hit Hill in stride on deeper throws.
Hummmmmmm..... "Grier likes to play hardball, and it often leads to just a larger contract. If he fails to get a deal done with Tua I'm joining the call for "Grier has to go". On the other hand, if he can get a contract that on paper is larger but has less guaranteed money, or makes it easier for us to move on from Tua if he somehow doesn't pan out, then it's all good." -cbrad https://thephins.com/threads/dolphins-reportedly-‘want’-to-pay-tua-tagovailoa-but-aren’t-sure-about-his-fair-market-value.98968/page-3#post-3642370 "If he fails to get a deal done with Tua I'm joining the call for "Grier has to go"." You ready to admit you were wrong about this yet?
Wrong about what? Grier got a deal done with Tua. And as you can see in that quote I did want flexibility in the contract, exactly as I claimed.
You said you wanted the flexibility of playing on his option, and in that post you said if Grier doesn't sign Tua to a long term contract you want him fired. Those are very conflicting things. I guess searching works both ways?
No, long term contracts can have varying levels of flexibility. That's what I'm referring to when I say "easier to move on from Tua if he somehow doesn't pan out." Your attempt at a gotcha totally backfired. You proved I said what I claimed.
Nope. We were discussing the preference of Tua playing on his option. Also, you said "OR:" "If he can get a contract that on paper is larger but has less guaranteed money, or makes it easier for us to move on from Tua if he somehow doesn't pan out" You got caught dude. LOL!
