Flo was a jerk. He was a great defensive tactician but seemed convinced that loyalty was owed to him when he held none for anybody else. He was typical of Belichick's disciples, who all took the wrong aspects of his coaching style into their new roles. They took his surliness, aloof responses, overbearing/borderline disrespectful approach toward players, and hoodie, when the secret to his success was Tom Brady all along. Being a dick toward your players can work if they like you and want to prove that your doubts about them are wrong. Most fathers use that to push their sons to achieve higher limits of success. The secret is to make sure they know that your expectations are achievable. But if the person you're casting doubts on doesn't think anything he does can ever be good enough, that approach falls short.
Have any players besides Tua voiced similar criticisms about Flores or is this more of a he said she said?
I'd be shocked to find out that Kyle Van Noy has pleasant things to say about him after sliding out from a 4 year deal after one season. And this, after Van Noy left a good situation to join Flo in Miami. And Kenny Stills definitely isn't a fan.
I still remember the story of the practice when Jay-Z's music was blasted. Even as someone who defended Flores, I recognized how needlessly petty that was.
What concerns did Minkah voice to similar to Tua's? IIRC he asked for and received a trade bc he didn't like his role on the team and/or playing for a team who was tanking. Not at all similar to blaming his lack of production on real or perceived slights from the HC. Minkah certainly hasn't gone out of his way to publicly trash Flores two years after he left the organization. As a QB and leader it'd be nice if Tua focused on ways he could improve his own game. I get that LeBatard kinda begged him for a juicy sound bite and I don't doubt Tua's sincerity. My question is how does making statements like that help the 2024 Dolphins? Tbh I haven't seen much evidence that having a better supporting cast hasn't helped Tua more than kinder words from his HC.
I don't think its much of a he said she said since Flores doesn't dispute anything Tua said. Its also not the first time we have heard of issues it was just dismissed because people assumed it was the Dolphins putting out dirt to justify the firing and keeping the QB who "sucked". I am sure he didn't talk to all players in this way and he may not have to talked to any other player in this way but I don't think there is any reason to not believe Tua here.
Tua's statements can be taken more than one way. The question was about the contrast between Flores and McDaniel and their relationship with Tua. Tua made a clear contrast that anyone with eyes can see. The headlines read Tua goes off on Flores. I took it more as a compliment to McDaniel in helping build up Tua's confidence which led to his success. I'm not saying it wasn't critical of Flores at all but he was giving props to his HC in the same breath.
Flores was fired and is now DC for the Vikings I see no reason why he'd be asked or offer a comment on what happened with Tua in Miami. Seems petty to be bashing a coach who's been gone for two years and between Flores reportedly chasing Watson plus Ross tampering with Brady isn't it safe to say the Dolphins as an organization had their doubts about Tua? It's not about whether what Tua says is true it's the timing and relevance of his comments. IMO Tua should take the high road, go win some playoff games and let his play speak for itself. No need to sling mud at this point, it does nothing to help win games.
So this all circles back to Tua and the doubts (along with the agenda you're pushing) that you have about him? I see it now. THAT'S why you're defending Flores the way you are. Seems kind of petty don't ya think? Oh and you're the one "slinging mud." You're just doing it the internet way.
Sure what Tua said won't help win games because it has nothing to do with that at all. Bringing up winning and playoff games is what actually is irrelevant. He was asked a question and he answered honestly.
If you equate exploring alternative perspectives rather than accepting Tua's words, timing and judgement as gospel then sure I'm "defending" Flores. Of course none of this would be relevant if Tua had simply praised his current coaches and teammates without throwing unnecessary shade.
His job when speaking to the media is to be a spokesman for the team not to answer honestly, especially when he's obviously being baited. JMO.
Look, it's not just Flores, it's the whole Belichick tree. These guys learn coaching a certain way and take it to a new organization. The big issue is that they aren't coming in with Tom Brady or his rings. When they start their dick-swinging antics, it rubs a lot of people the wrong way. They have trouble with staffs, with key players, getting buy-in, the media ... everything. Flores has the tactical acumen to be a good coach, but imo he needed a bit of humbling and learning under difference coaches and organizations. Living in Detroit, they went through much the same thing at nearly the same time with Matt Patricia. All the same notes were hit - he was a massive jerk to most people, an egomaniac, hard to get along with. Unlike Flores, his tactics were also garbage lol. The Patriot Way is anathema to coaching in this day and age. It worked specifically and solely because of Tom Brady.
**** Flores. This is America, Tua is entitled to say whatever the **** he wants. Flores treated him like garbage. Granted, Flores had his hand forced in 2020 when Tua clearly should have sat, but it was the wrong move to use that against Tua. That was more about our inept FO and ownership group.
I had some inside info that I posted in club that Tua was actually benched in 2021 when Flores claimed he was injured and that Flores didn't speak to to the FO or ownership for the latter half of his last season. He also barely spoke with his coaching staff.. It was a nightmare under his reign. This came from someone that had secondhand info from someone directly connected to the team who witnessed it.
I actually remember reading that somewhere but there were rumors it was damage control put out by the team front office. Here's Flores' response for anyone who hasn't seen it.
Tua spoke his mind and kept it honest. I respect that a hell of a lot more than pussyfooting around the actual issue to avoid throwing unnecessary shade. If Tua says that Flores was a prick to him, I believe it. Initially, I was mad when we fired Flores. I was wrong in hindsight. I don't hate the guy, but he was going to sink Tua before his career even got started.
I was angry when Flores was fired as well, though I wouldn't be so quick to say you were wrong in hindsight. Unless I'm mistaken he was fired bc he didn't believe building the team around Tua was the best path to building a championship contender, the jury remains out on that. McDaniel has done an admirable job of helping to jump start Tua's career, building an exciting and competitive team. However, assuming McDaniel's belief in or treatment of Tua is the primary reason for the improvement minimizes the importance of adding guys like Hill, Armstead, Mostert, Ingold, Achane, Connor Williams etc. As if all Tua needed was better intangibles. It's convenient to blame the last coaching staff for any number of issues. The proof will come when the current staff produces a championship contender or at least a playoff win or two.
Wait a second, Tua has been asked this numerous times since Flores' departure and had taken the high road...until now. Its been 2 years. Tua's turnaround is well documented. There is a DISTINCT difference in Tua with Flores and Tua with McDaniel. I have no issue with Tua addressing the elephant in the room when asked. He didn't bring Flores up, LeBatard did.
Learning jiu-jitsu to help prevent injury and shedding weight (which he gained for the same reason) to get more nimble and add a new component to his game isn’t trying to improve? Maybe he just got frustrated with the perception that he sucked his first two years and wanted to tell his side of the story. The season can’t start soon enough, lol
Not really. McDaniel has already proven you can build a top-level offense around Tua. Don't fall into the trap of thinking you can take any average-ish QB, given them Hill etc. and get the same result. Flores has already been proven wrong about whether you can build a top-level offense around Tua irrespective of whether we win a championship (e.g., it could be the defense that's the missing piece under McD).
Ok...But if what you're saying is true, then we'd be flying just as high with Mike White as the starting quarterback of this team...Or Thompson for that matter. That assumption has already been proven wrong many many times. I do agree that Tua needs to win some playoff games. Better yet, McDaniel, Tua, Hill, Armstead, the entire team need to win some playoff games. You can't just put this all on Tua. Granted, he did play bad in KC last January. Bad weather or not. I expected him to show up and he didn't.
Kyle digs in deep on Bill, Flo, and the rest of the hoodie wannabes that fell from the Patriots' coaching tree. Two have winning records and almost all of them proved themselves to be buttholes before they left town. Kyle's explanation for why the "Patriot Way" worked matches my own feelings and it's good to hear somebody else confirm it. He also mentions that despite the image we all have of McDaniel, he's more than capable of crawling into his players after a bad practice and has done it when necessary. Good video.
Tua adds to his game every offseason. It's why I'm convinced he's nowhere near his ceiling. And LeBetard asked him a direct question that he felt compelled to answer. I don't think he was frustrated with his perception; I think he remains pissed that somebody that he trusted to make him a better player gave up on him after a handful of practices. If Flo and Stephen Ross had their way, instead of having truly generational wealth and living his dream, he would likely be fighting for a starting job somewhere else and widely considered to be a bust.
As a former Tua hater i now laugh at this idea - Tua's rating and play are practically the same when Hill is on the sidelines..
Not to mention that Hill's best two seasons of his career just happen to be when Tua is throwing him the ball. (And before someone says it's McDanial's offense...Andy Reid is an offensive genius in his own right and will be wearing that Gold Jacket 5 years after he retires.)
Also. It burns me up that Tua had immediate success after I left because it destroys my chances of ever being a HC again (plus it also wrecks my lawsuit against the NFL)
