There are hours of coverage of Tua's individual games from J.T. O'Sullivan's channel alone. I suggest you watch them. There are plenty of plays where he moves off his first read in the play progression.
Exactly. Not too long ago Tua's "arm strength" was brought up again talking about his stats outside the numbers. Someone says "they're not great", clearly insinuating that the numbers outside the hashes are bad. Someone then posts passing charts showing Tua's QB rating in those said spots to be above the league average to way above the league average. Nothing is acknowledged and the same argument will be brought up again soon that "Tua sucks outside the hashes".
The most critical stat respected and researched when it comes to a successful QB’ing is YPA relative to completion percentage. Now you take into account that Tua is #2 in the NFL in YPC is a great indicator, you combine that at #1 in the game at 2.4 seconds to release and you have more than an indicator Now you combine YPC + fastest time to throw+ elite accuracy and we all should want to see the player keep progressing in the same system as those are traits that require great talent to execute. There no denying it’s unprescedented territory for the position
Oh, I bet. But we also need to be careful with portraying Tua as Superman by combining statistical analysis with some contextual analysis. I don't think you would want to build an offense around him that had a lot of out routes - I think in a situation like that, you're forcing an average-armed square peg into a round hole. It's not that he couldn't do it, but that there'd be more risk there compared to a stronger-armed quarterback in the same system. There are plenty more ways to win than the above though - at least that's my belief. We just saw an average-armed quarterback in the previous Super Bowl. People are so fixated on what Tua isn't, overtly, because that's a really easy evaluation. "Tua don't throw hard so no good. Tua small so no good." He has good mechanics, a great release, great play action, quick feet. Those things are harder to notice if you're a casual football watcher.
I would consider than an "L" for the "some," and would suggest just letting it roll off your back. People tie their identities up so tightly in their views, even with something as inconsequential as sports. The "some" enjoy living to the edges of their caves and tiptoeing into the sunlight is a scary proposition.
Actually, I think you hit the nail on the head with this post. I think the non-troll "anti-Tua" posters mostly are fighting this perception that Tua is Superman. The other side doesn't want to give any ground because they think that that somehow means Tua isn't Superman, which makes the other guys right. Yes, acknowledge his shortcomings, don't try to explain them away. Acknowledge what he does well.
His shortcomings were that he can't stay healthy and that he can't throw deep. Those narratives have been shattered so we're now sitting on the new one that he doesn't extend plays. Nobody is saying he's perfect but some people here are just looking for the next reason to criticize the guy.
Sure if you make up a perception that doesn't exist among anyone then yeah you can definitely fight that.
And here is what causes the argumentd. I didn't create any perception. Guys on here who refuse to acknowledge ANY negative aspects of Tua, instead just dismiss then outer explain them away, create that perception. That's how perceptions work. I noticed you didn't argue with invid, who said it first, you argued with me. Weird.
No that is not true. No one said his shortcoming was he couldn't throw deep. One criticism was that he has a weak arm. You guys tried to counter that criticism with getting off over his deep ball. And you continue with that strawman. Anther criticism was that he chooses where to throw presnap. Regardless of what you say, I don't believe that has been disproven. But again, this is what we're saying. You say there was only two criticisms and they've both been disproven. Therefore, Tua must be the must perfect QB in the league. He is Superman. Yet Fireland just told me I'm the one creating that perception.
Deep accuracy and deep throws are some of the most devastating plays in football, and Tua is good/great at them. I think the disconnect is there was a lot of posters saying that the Tua will be limited, no matter his development, because of his arm strength. While that is true, I think it is incredibly overstated and only accounts towards one of the many physical aspects of playing QB. There are plenty of ways to win in the NFL, and you can thrive without out routes as a core part of your playbook. Scramble throws that turn into touchdown passes are generally pretty rare, and these types of rare plays are being used to disparage Tua's arm strength as a "But he'll never be able to do this!" type of argument. I often use Zach Wilson's pro day as an example. People went crazy over his scramble throws. It's nice to be physically able to do this, but it ultimately means ****-all. We also have to remember that Tua is still on his ROOKIE contract. I'd say he's shown pretty good early signs of being a top-10 QB for a long time in the league if his last two years are of any worth. He should, hopefully, only get better as he experiences more defensive gameplans, learns the ins and outs of McDaniels system like the back of his hand, and learns how to improve the things that are in his control to overcome some overrated physical limitations. I tend to believe this, because Tua has continued to evolve as a player. As soon as he doesn't, then we can probably have a more worthwhile conversation. It just really rubs certains fans the wrong way (I'm over it, personally) because we've been in the wilderness so long. We finally get playoff berths, back to back (almost 3x), and it's like certain "fans" aren't ready for it. They can't believe something good is cooking. They've gotten so used to *****ing and moaning over mediocre seasons that it's impossible to get off that treadmill of complaining.
We all can and have acknowledged his shortcomings and weaknesses, I express those parts as much as anyone and I’ve never had a problem with anyone except the ones we’re talking about. So you saying the board cannot talk about it is false Res. It’s posting style, it’s the ability to be critical and respectful to the player and the rest of the boards posters and their opinions. If someone comes in the board and says “Tua sucks, let’s trade him to the highest bidder, he sucks and the folks that support him are blind homers” That kind of tone and lack of construct and analysis is going to cause major issues amongst the majority of dolphin fans.
DJ, I was speaking directly about the post I quoted. That post states that there were only 2 criticisms, deep ball and injury, and both have been proven wrong. That post is not saying that Tua has no problems?
I agree with much of this. I have a slightly different perspective though...I think that because we've been in the wilderness for so long, that some people want to latch onto Tua, as he's pretty much the only bright spot we've had. Like yeah, we haven't won a playoff game or sniffed a Super Bowl, BUT LOOK AT OUR QB!! Know what I mean? Then other posters kinda bristle at that, and are like, Who cares, we haven't sniffed a Super Bowl or playoff win in decades!! Both sides are kinda right, which is why the argument just keeps going, when there are people who can't acknowledge the truth on both sides I'm not saying that everyone on the board isn't acknowledging the truths...the ones who acknowledge the truth on both sides aren't the issue.
I actually addressed what he posted that wasn't true. And again, another example of what continues the arguments. You just ignore what I wrote, and just state that nothing he said was untrue.
^^^THIS A THOUSAND TIMES^^^ Listen, NOBODY is perfect. For decades we’ve used Marino as a measuring stick and if we’re all completely honest, Dan was FAR from perfect…but he was a damned good quarterback. Am I ready to anoint Tua as the next Marino? BLASPHEMY!!! But if we’re all completely honest…HONEST…Tua is a damned fine quarterback! Can we have objective legitimate discussions concerning Tua’s shortcomings? Absolutely!!!! But when those discussions are the total sum of his abilities, that’s disingenuous. If you can legitimately point out Tua’s shortcomings, then surely you can objectively point out and discuss his greatness. Afterall if you can’t, then any discussion about Marino should be completely focused on his interception rate and how he was never able to win a Super Bowl.
I didn't say untrue I said unfair. Everyone here acknowledges his flaws. We don't need to pretend people don't just to justify arguing about Tua over and over until the end of time.
Exactly, we’ve spent almost decades on this board and having great dialogue with many members who can talk without bias or admitted bias, it’s been great until a few have come out and said this is the place we’re gonna make our mark. Res not included, but res, when I see you thank countless posts from the intruders. It’s a showdown if they don’t change their styles
Sorry, I meant to write "unfair." My point remains the same, and you ignored it to play semantics with my post, and that point is, you simply dismissed what I had to say, and instead went with he didn't say anything "unfair." Well I believe it is unfair. Those weren't the criticisms, and they weren't the only criticisms.
Again, I have addressed this. I thank posts that I think make a good argument or bring up a good point. It in no way means that I agree with their overall point. Just the same, do you not think it annoys me to see you guys liking posts that I viee as nothing but trolling or inflammatory towards posters?
The disconnect on Robinson pick and why the Dolphins may have a point. And Chop nuggets BY BARRY JACKSON UPDATED MAY 11, 2024 10:42 AM Notes, takeaways and perspective on Dolphins first-round pick Chop Robinson, coinciding with the Dolphins rookie minicamp this weekend: ▪ There seems to be a disconnect between those who question why Miami would draft an edge rusher who had just 11.5 sacks in 35 college games, and those who see the high ceiling and how he makes an impact in other ways. Here’s a big reason why Miami drafted him 21st overall: The Dolphins front office values quarterback pressures and quarterback disruption every bit as much -- if not more so -- than sacks. And in that area, Robinson is very good. Though Robinson’s sack production was modest, keep in mind that he had 61 quarterback hurries in 497 career pass rushing snaps. That’s one hurry for every 8.1 pass rushing attempts. Alabama’s Dallas Turner, selected 17th by Minnesota (four spots before Robinson), had 25 sacks in three seasons but had 67 hurries in 806 pass rushing snaps. That’s one hurry per every 12.0 pass rushing attempts. UCLA’s Laiatu Latu, the first edge rusher who was drafted (15th to the Colts), had 81 pressures in 623 snaps, equaling one every 7.7. He had 24 college sacks. So Robinson pressured the quarterback more often, per pass rush snap, than the player (Turner) who was widely considered the best edge player in the draft. And his pressure per snaps weren’t much lower than Latu’s. Also, Robinson’s 18 percent pressure rate last season ranked sixth in college football. That led the Big Ten. And consider this: Per Pro Football Focus, Robinson was tied for No. 3 nationally in pass rush win rate over the past two seasons at 20.9% --- behind only Latu (23.1%) and Florida State’s Jared Verse (22.1%), who both went ahead of Robinson in the draft. Robinson said his pressures made an impact, even if standard statistics don’t necessarily reflect that. “I feel a lot of times I got back there, I didn’t get to the quarterback but it affected the quarterback whether it was an interception, PBU [pass breakup] or my defensive end getting a sack,” Robinson said Friday before the first practice of the team’s two-day rookie mini-camp. “Me getting back there doing my job caused a lot of” positive effects for Penn State. That might explain why the modest sack numbers don’t bother Dolphins officials, even if they bother others. “Since you guys have known me over the years, we’ve talked about the stats part,” general manager Chris Grier said. “For us, it’s an important part, but we’ve always talked about the ability to disrupt the passer. “His disruption stuff numbers are all very high. For us, working through the analytics, watching him and what he does and contributes, sacks people always want to – the guy that comes to mind for me would be Danielle Hunter had four career sacks coming out of college, and he’s become a really good player in this league. “I’m not putting that pressure on him to be Danielle Hunter, but it’s not just him; there are other players throughout the league that if you look at what their college numbers are compared to how they’ve had success in the pros – we think a lot of traits and the things you see on film translate.” And consider this from NFL Films’ Greg Cosell: “Most pass rushers in college need a larger array of moves. He certainly needs that; there’s no question. In terms of sudden, twitchy explosiveness on the edge, he may be the best guy in this draft. A lot of people who are not looking at tape will look at his sack total and say there’s not a lot of production. “You’ve got to watch his tape. There are so many plays he beat tackles and didn’t get a sack for any number of reasons. There are times he needs to be a better finisher. Other times, the ball came out quick….He’s so quick and so fluid, generates speed and velocity.” Robinson -- who is listed by the Dolphins at 6-3 and 254 pounds -- makes clear he prefers sacks to pressures; he had only four sacks last season, with two coming against FCS opponent Massachusetts. “Of course I wanted sacks,” he said. “But I control what I can control, try to affect the quarterback as much as possible. If my teammate gets a sack, I’m just as happy as if I get a sack. If I’m not getting there, I know my teammate is getting there. That’s fine with me.” He said he’s working on his hand usage, which could lead to more sacks, and is studying tape of “Nick Bosa, TJ Watt, guys like that. I know it’s more than just watching the players; I have to put in the work.” MORE ON ROBINSON Robinson’s passion for the game appealed to the Dolphins. “Honestly, everything is just ball,” he said. If I’m not in the facility, if I’m not watching football, I’m probably playing video games. That’s about it. But most of the time I’m just watching ball or doing it.” He plays the Madden football video game and “first it was the Ravens [Madden option] because I was hometown kid. I’m using the Dolphins now.” ▪ Here’s what his defensive line coach at Penn State said about him: “He understands the game so well,” Deion Barnes said. “And always has had the determination to do whatever it takes to be the best he can be. He is a tireless worker who has spent a lot of extra time on his game in the field, in the weight room and in the film room. He has great speed, power and awareness, which are all important traits for a pass rusher and run stopper in the NFL.” ▪ PFF rated Robinson 68th of 1031 edge players against the run last season. That was ninth among all Big 10 edge players who had at least 140 run defense snaps. So even though he had just 15 tackles in 10 games, his run defense is not viewed as a weakness. ▪ Robinson was used sparingly in pass coverage. He allowed two of the four passes thrown in his coverage area to be caught for 20 yards. ▪ Pro Football Focus called him an “athletic freak.” His 4.49 time in the 40 yard dash was first among edge rushers at the NFL Combine. His 10-8 broad jump was tied for first. “Robinson is a gifted player athletically — likely on a level that is top of the class,” PFF said. “A lot of what leaves you wanting more from Robinson is coach-able. Unlocking that is the key for him to go from a boom-or-bust athlete to a dominant edge defender.” NEWS NOTE Though receiver Odell Beckham Jr. was guaranteed $3 million in his one-year deal with the Dolphins, his 2024 cap number will be only $2.1 million, per overthecap.com’s Jason Fitzgerald. That leaves Miami with $1.8 million in cap space. An additional $18.5 million in cap space becomes available on June 1 because Xavien Howard previously was designated a post-June 1 cut. This story was originally published May 11, 2024, 10:29 AM. https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article287817060.html
Chop seems to be a team player. And if he's reading this come find me on Madden MUT my man. I got a Dolphin themed roster led by the right arm of God. "Tuanon4Life"
Back to football.. Chop…the more people study this kids game the more they are starting to see how he impacted qbs, and the playcalling. It’s really remarkable what I’m seeing. I’ve mentioned this before and some know it alls think they know better by looking at some stats. Joe klatt, you can have whatever opinion you want with the guy but he called the game.. He said he absolutely saw the shift of style of play and playcalling. Bottom line they had to avoid this ****ing guy..Klatt stands by his opinion and he said he talked to people as well. Think about that for a moment, a college pass rusher at the highest level was affecting the whole damn scheme and Qb just to avoid his presense I’ve watched hundreds of reps, coordinators absolutely adjusted their game plans during the game, at half time, and before games actually started This was the most disruptive player in the game…period **** being a technician. So the unique style for which this player plays the game made coordinators and qbs adjust their tempo. Now I was saying that before I heard some national pundits say the same, so maybe there is some truth to it.? I think the important part of the conversation with this player is the unique way he plays the game.. I don’t see any lack of instincts so we can rule out the explosive player with elite measurables who doesn’t have the instincts convo. Im of the mindset of, “ I’m not sure you try to fiddle with this dude games too much, of course always teach some things but I’m not sure I would try to have him become more of a technician instead of just the way he plays. The reason he doesnt have the sacks imo is because he’s dictating terms to the offense and those terms are gonna force you to have to change to a quick tempo offense because ain’t know way your tackle is holding this dude for a five to seven step drop. Terms to the Qb are in the form of, ok they have to rush getting the ball out. So yeah lots of folks not seeing how this kid affects the whole big picture, just the stat number. It’s all good, there so much film of him funneling plays right into the arms of his teammates with explosive football plays but they don’t give out assists in football, if they did this dude would lead the league, and why that a great thing? Because he collapsing multiple players to get the assist, or destroying the play call and their just eating his scraps
Just getting a quick look at our rookies. Like our RB pick up even more after seeing that he's bigger than I thought, I think we got something there. Like how Kamera is build, he looks bigger than Robinson while actually being smaller. Like the WRs from what they showed. Biggest surprise and reason for hope, Patrick Paul, this dude intrigues me, like what I saw and heard. Biggest "let down", Robinson looked a little small and I'm a little concerned about him setting the edge, but besides that I really liked what I saw.
Robinson along with healthy Phillips and healthy Chubb is exciting. Between them working the edge, they can mitigate the loss of Wilkins' interior pressure and hopefully make things better for the secondary by moving the QB off his spot. Kamara was a beast in college, but my hopes are tempered for him. He almost single-handedly destroyed Colorado last season. I'd love it if he found a place in the rotation.
Then why isn't he beating good teams? Do you not think Hill and Waddle both affect the the YPA, and the YPC?
Dolphins 7th Round Draft Pick Is Turning Heads At Minicamp Story by The Cold Wire • 15h • 2 min read Last season, the Miami Dolphins were able to take another step closer to being a legitimate Super Bowl title contender, with everything seemingly coming together, especially on the offensive side of the football. Head coach Mike McDaniel seemed to find the recipe for success, with star quarterback Tua Tagovailoa coming into his own as one of the best players in the league at his position and the receiving corps taking it up a notch with superstar wide receiver Tyreek Hill leading the way for Miami. Unfortunately for the Dolphins, the NFL playoffs were a different beast entirely after the team was dominant during the regular season, winning 11 games. The Dolphins had to get through the defending Super Bowl champion Kansas City Chiefs in the playoffs, and even though Miami was talented, Patrick Mahomes and company were too much to overcome. With Miami needing to improve it’s roster this NFL offseason, the team headed into the NFL Draft with an emphasis on defense, with the team bringing in linebacker Chop Robinson out of Penn State University. Although the team wanted to improve defensively, the team also brought in some offensive weapons, with the team drafting wide receiver Tahj Washington out of the University of Southern California, who is already making some noise in rookie minicamp via FinsXtra. Along with bringing in Washington to bolster the receiving corps, the Dolphins recently signed superstar wideout Odell Beckham Jr. to join Hill and Jaylen Waddle. On paper, the Dolphins have the best offense in the league, but it will be interesting to see if it comes together during the 2024 campaign.
Yes of course they affect that but, it takes more talent to be able to measure that speed and distance to deliver the ball accurately. That’s the thing, some folks think it’s easier because their fast receivers, it’s not, to gauge timing and distance and being accurate require more talent at Qb then throwing to big slow guys. Why isn’t he beating good team yet? Because he hasn’t learned how to manage a game yet imo
