Tua...''He's the greatest prospect ever''

And number 1 in our hearts

 

If speed is what is all about why isn't Ted Ginn Jr being measured for his HoF jacket?

 

No one said speed is what it's all about, but when running a deep route, speed matters.

Speed is not the only thing that makes a reciever great, but it's a great weapon to have in your arsenal.

 

no. Just no.

 

I often agree with your takes on football but there is absolutely no way Waddle is a high 4.4 guy, zero chance of it.

Sauce ran a 4.41 at the combine and just look at the way Waddle blew past him in the first Jets game, he was separating from him after 10 yards. You just have to hear how other NFL players talk about how quick he is to know that he isn’t Trent Sherfield speed.

Sherfield ran a 4.45 and if you watch the All-22 tape of his long TD against the 49ers last year you can see Waddle moving at a completely different speed to him as he chases him into the end zone.

 

Disagree, about Waddle's speed, he is low 4.3 easy. Not speaking to his high school times. Also, that doesn't make the Tua's throw unimpressive. I don't understand that argument. It also doesn't mean that Waddle didn't run a great route, 40 times don't just directly translate to route running. He didn't just run a go. Honestly, it's weird that people think that fast WRs can just run fast in a straight line to get open. They don't just race with the faster playing winning the pass. Both are entitled to the space their body is in, a WR cannot just run through the DB. This is why bigger but slower corners can still shutdown much faster WRs with better technique.



Here is Waddle racing Ruggs (4.27 combine 40).

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/dgZSzzbZ7g8

 

I just asked McDaniel his thoughts on Waddle's 40 time and he told me to F off and for you all to go F yourselves with all due respect.

 

Im harping on it because you’re lying, again.

Of course Waddle is a speed demon. I don’t think you realize how fast a 4.5 40 is. Saying Waddle is in the 4.4’s isn’t a slight. However, he’s closer to what he ran in college (officially) than what he ran in high school while being clocked by someone who benefited from him being recruited. On his best day I just don’t see Waddle running a sub 4.4 40. His top end is extremely fast, and he’s extremely fast from the start, but he’s not Tyreek fast. Tyreek runs a sub 4.4 40.

 

Which part(s) do you disagree with?

 

A back peddling DB is at an extreme disadvantage to a WR running straight off the line. I don’t know what either of their top ends are, Waddle does seem faster, but I would bet money Waddle isn’t a sub 4.4 40 guy. I mean, the difference in 4.38 to 4.42 or even 4.45 can be about anything from wind to differing time clocks to the person themself. If you took Waddle, indoors, turf, on his best day, and average out 5 40 yrd tries, I seriously doubt he’s under 4.4.

In order to run a 4.3 40 a person would need to AVERAGE 19.03 mph. From a dead stop they’d probably have to hit over 23 MPH at some point in the run. I’ve seen no evidence that Waddle can run that fast. And, as a junior in college he ran a 4.5-something. As I wrote earlier, I DO think he’s faster than that now, but 2/10 of a second faster? I doubt it.

 

You are wrong.

 

Just no, you're wrong. But as usual, you will never admit it, Waddle has sub 4.4 speed.

Yes I know 4.5 is not slow in general terms, but it is not elite speed for the NFL. Tyreek Hill has run a 4.29.

Hill is indeed faster than Waddle, but they are both in the 4.3 range.

D.J. Reed is not even in the same ball park with them. A 4.37 is a good 2-3 yards of separation faster than 4.51, about the same difference we saw on that play, and it makes a world of a difference on a deep route like that.

Yes reed was backpedling initially, but he also gave Waddle a 10 yard cushion, and still got torched. They do not have the same level of speed, not even close.

See some simulcam footage below so you can appreciate the difference between a 4.39 in this case (simmons) and a 4.48 (mcaffrey). Which is even less of a disparity than exists between Waddle and Reed.

 

Ok, this speed argument is silly.

Speed doesn’t equate to always being open.

Speed doesn’t equate to an accurate throw by the quarterback.

Speed doesn’t equate to a reception. Remember, we’ve seen Waddle drop a few passes from Tua that we’re right in the breadbasket.

 

From running the 40 personally in college and high school, I'd vary from a 4.7 to a 4.8...and I think so much of that was the first 2-3 steps. My fastest ever was a 4.68 but my worst ever was close to a 4.9.

I was a 220 pound lineman/fullback, by the way. For those of you that don't know this stuff, I was very fast for my size but probably not in the top-20 fastest on the team.

 

Waddle had a run last season on nextgenstats at 21.5mph with the ball in his hands, in pads, during a game. I think it was in the top 10 last season.

Just look at the video of him and Ruggs racing, there is next to nothing between them. If Waddle was a 4.4 or higher guy then there would have been at least 1 yard of separation between them.

As I said, look at the all-22 from the 49ers game last year, Waddle makes up at least 5 yards on Sherfield on that TD run in the space of 50 yards and he runs past multiple 49er defenders as he’s racing to the end zone to celebrate with Sherfield. It’s an eye opener to how fast Waddle actually is. Starts at 5:39, I can’t get a link to the timestamp on mobile for some reason.

Based on the way the NFL times people and based on what we have seen of Waddle on the field I’d be very confident that he would run in the low to mid 4.3’s, he just glides past people and takes the angle from them often as well.

 

So this is where we are now? Dissing Tua because he has receivers that can run? What's next?

"Well the receivers have to CATCH IT!!!! Tua can't do ANYTHING without his receivers catching the ball!!! He is being carried by his receivers!!!"

 

Shannon Sharpe entered the chat:

 

Fast wide receivers are over/under thrown all the time. Tua is good at the deep ball that it is odd when it is not a completion.

 

That’s where I’m at. I’m usually shocked when it’s not completed. When he lets it go I’m usually thinking “big play coming up”.

 

Shannon took too many hits to the head......

 

He clearly didn't realize Hill didn't play on Sunday. Or that the Jests have a good defense. Or that losing your best player AND your potentially all-pro center in the first half might impact how well you play for the rest of the game. Apparently, you're only as good as your worst game.

Shannon just proved Tua to be right for what he said.

 

He must post on here.

 

For REAL???????

Wow, a quarterback can’t have a bad game and still be a GOOD quarterback?

The sports media has a completely different measuring stick for Tua. Mahomes, Allen, Borrow, Herbert…they can ALL have a bad game… or MANY bad games and they are still viewed as GREAT quarterbacks, but let Tua, who has had 2 consecutive GREAT seasons under Mike McDaniel’s offense have A SINGLE bad game and he’s still viewed as a questionable quarterback? STFU!!!!

I’ve said it time and time again, Tua could throw for 1000 yards a game, 12 touchdowns, no interceptions and the sports media would STILL be, “yea, but…”

 

Sports panel shows be going in on Tua like:

Molly Qerim: Well, the first thing we're discussing is the news that broke last night about Tua walking across the water to save three orphans and two nuns whose bus crashed and fell into a lake. After getting all five of them to safety, he found out there was also a peach crate full of puppies on the bus and returned to save them. He's being hailed as a hero today. What do you have to say?

Stephen A. Smith: Let me just start by saying that I respect him for taking the time to save them. With that being said, Josh Allen would have been there to fix the brakes of the bus before it crashed. Tua's not the mechanic or quarterback that Josh Allen is and his refusal to work on his skillset is why it took so long to get everybody to safety. And Patrick Mahomes would have carried Travis Kelce across the lake to grab the kids, nuns AND puppies so Mahomes could carry them all back to the shore. It could have been done in one trip but it took Tua two. Definitely not an all-pro.

Shannon Sharpe: It just goes to show you what I've always said about Tua, Stephen A. The man simply can't swim.

 

The thing is, the Titans game, Tua wasn't bad. It wasn't a good game, but it wasn't bad. He threw for over 7 yards per attempt while throwing no interceptions.

It wasn't like Dak Prescott against the Bills.

 

Classic. Just needed to add a word in Stephen A's diatribe that doesn't exist and some mumbles to Shannon's.

 

Classic, I can literally HEAR their voices reading that!!!!

 

Shannon: "Don't act like your a top 3 quarterback."

People who track this stuff:

 

He's not top 3 in QBR, he's 11th. Shannon also brought that up today.

 

When did QBR become gospel? Never mind, I know, it was exactly when Tua went up in EVERY OTHER QB measure except QBR..... just ridiculous.

 

QBR is a useless stat.

 

It takes into account things like strength of competition, supporting cast, and game situations, so I can see how Tua may be ranked lower there.

 

He's #2 in passer rating. QBR is ESPN's sorry attempt to try to "account for context" by creating a black box method with 10,000 lines of code that they won't divulge because it would be too easy to attack if they did. Passer rating is transparent (we know what the formula is) and it has a high correlation to win%

For anyone thinking QBR is good measure of QB ability, please note the massive embarrassment that ESPN still can't rid themselves of that the highest ever QBR in history was for Charlie Batch against TB in 2010. Batch had 12 completions out of 17 attempts for 186 yards with 3 TDs and 2 INTs. That led to a QBR of 99.9!!!!
https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/1490/type/nfl/year/2010

THAT is the best game in NFL history according to ESPN's QBR. You can completely dismiss QBR until ESPN decides to be transparent about what's in those 10k lines of code.

 

He wasn't Tua level average though. Which is amazing that he has raised the level of expected QB play so far. It's been so long. I was established as a Dolphin Fan under young Marino, finally having a QB that can constantly play that well again feels good. I have a such a hard time understanding the Tua haters that are actually Dolphin fans. Don't you guys remember the last couple of decades? Tua on those Zach and Jason teams, and there would have been championships. Anyone really doubt that?

 

It's worthless. Games where one QB totally dominated the other often have both QBs with the same QBR.

 

I call the game against the Titans the Lawerence Slurp Zone. When Trevor Lawerence gets a rating over 90, people act like he is a franchise quarterback and are ready to slob his knob.

 

Well, my number one issue with analytics is it often does not put things in context or account for things like strength of competition or supporting cast, so any attempts to factor this in is welcome IMO.