I was wrong about the Jets and here to eat some crow

Yeah, he has looked mediocre at times, and him and Mac have put up pretty much the same numbers when playing with similar supporting casts. My overall evaluation of Tua is that he can be an above average NFL starting QB, but is missing some key traits to be elite. Rock Purdy is also putting up elite numbers, that doesn't make him an elite QB in my mind, more a product of the system.

But since you are all about numbers I can see how you can think differently.

He played well against the Jets, I will give him that, but the Jets offense put the Jets defense in bad situations all game long. This game was not enough to convince me. Let's see what we can do the next three weeks and into the playoffs before we sign Tua long term, that's all I'm saying.

 

Ahh! The truth comes out. Your evaluation of Tua, even after 2 straight years of elite play and him repeatedly proving your predictions wrong, is that he "can be an above average NFL starting QB". Unbelievable.

That right there is why no one should assess your statements about arm strength in isolation. You're proving once again that you think the vast majority of the credit should go to everyone else not named Tua, and that all these arm strength type arguments are just a set up for that eventual conclusion.

The primary reason your predictions about Tua have been so consistently wrong is precisely because you do NOT care about production (stats) anywhere near as much as you should. Until you change that way of evaluating you'll keep getting things wrong with high probability. Tua isn't even the worst example. Your view of Zach Wilson was that he will eventually "shine through" because of his talent. Wilson is turning into an epic bust given that he was picked #2 overall.

Look at production! Learn dude.

Of course. Goalpost moving is what you do. If for some reason you don't move goalposts this time, i.e., if Tua plays well these next 3 games, that will be the first time. We'll see. The same goes btw for the goalposts you set for Grier at winning a playoff game. You've been spectacularly wrong about Grier too. We'll see if you try to move those goalposts also.

 

So I can't argue arm strength because you don't like my overall position on Tua? Ok, sound logic there.

My goalpost are pretty clear, we need to win at least one playoff game and show we can beat the better teams in the league, not just beat up on bad teams which is what we have been doing all season.

Elite stats have never been my goalposts, they might be yours but not mine. It's do or die time for both Grier and Tua, let's see if we can finally get over the hump after a 22 year drought.

 

Just pointing out that you're not really arguing arm strength in isolation. It's a set up towards the larger goal of taking away credit from Tua. People should be aware of this when you make your arm strength argument.

Your goalposts have many times been clear, only to shift after Tua scores a goal. Will they shift again? We'll see.

I'm saying they should be important goalposts for you too because not having these goalposts is the reason you keep making incorrect predictions about Tua and other QBs like Wilson. Stats play little role if you're evaluating college prospects, but once they start playing in the NFL it is absolutely essential to look at production.

Yes let's hope. But also keep in mind this is a process. Not everything has to work out this year. I do agree though they need to finish strong. There's really no excuse for not winning the division given where the team is right now.

 

Anyone who tries to compare Tua to Jones should never, NEVER , be taken seriously. I urge you to just laugh and move on for your own sanity. Take it where it comes from. The sole purpose of these people is to try and get others to be as miserable as they are.

 

Too funny. The insecure always fall for that “multi million dollar house” trap. If I said I owned a 10 passenger jet you would have comeback with how your jet holds 20 people. If I claimed I owned a Bugatti you’d tell me about your Rolls… hahaha Too easy…

And, I’ve seen your house. If it’s a dollar over $250k I’d eat my hat. Lmao


Anyhow, Vick had one of the strongest arms in the league. I mean, all one has to do is watch the flipped videos of Tua and they’d see that I’m right. Or, just look up what I wrote on Google. You won’t do that though because you’re insecure about being wrong. That’s Okay then you’ll be man enough to just admit when you’re wrong.

 

Its definitely not do or die time for them since they aren't going anywhere.

 

I love when you do this. It’s like they don’t realize that what they’ve written here in the past is still here. At this point it’s not just them moving the goalposts, but just flat out lying.

 

I cannot believe at this point we have alleged dolphins fans who still argue tua isnt a top 10 QB. Its insane to me

 

This continued argument over Tua is beyond stupid. It’s utterly ridiculous.

Some of you comparing Tua to other quarterbacks just utterly astounds me. For this season, and last season Tua has outperformed all of these other quarterbacks.

He’s played better than Mahomes
He’s played better than Herbert
He’s played better than Allen
He’s played better than Burrow

OUR quarterback is doing EVERYTHING we ask him to do. He’s lit up the stat board, he’s played more effectively than any of these other quarterbacks, our record REFLECTS that performance and it’s STILL not good enough.

I’ve always said that football is the only true TEAM sport. I’ve always said the most important “player” on that team is the head coach. We have all seen the DISTINCT difference in Tua’s performance from the Flores era and the current era. Flores for one did not believe I Tua nor had the creative ability to think outside the box and bring out the best in him. McDaniel does.

Bottom line, the Dolphins are once again one of the more feared teams on any teams schedule. We’re currently sitting as the number 2 seed for the playoffs. We’re not limping and hoping for circumstances to occur for us to make the playoffs. We’re going to be there. Everyone should be ecstatic.

 

Dolphins fans are ecstatic.

 

The real insanity is those who still think the rest of us actually believe a word they're saying.

 

You know, I’m actually kind of wondering whether or not we would be better off at the number 2 seed rather than the number 1 seed.

I know that number 1 seed is THE coveted position, you have the bye…you have home field advantage throughout the playoffs etc…but I have noticed, this season as well as last season, the Dolphins have had a bit of rust to shake off following their byes.

Sure, we defeated the Texans last season following the bye, but the offense seemed a bit “off” out of the gate.

Sure, we defeated the Raiders this season following this year’s bye but again, the offense seemed a bit off.

With the way the Chiefs and the Ravens have been playing this season, and historically with Jackson in particular come playoff time, I can see one of those two potential number 1 seed teams faltering and losing at home, which would by default being home field advantage back down to Miami.

I’m just a bit apprehensive of Miami getting that week off, only to falter with some rust and lose.

 

If it weren’t for injuries and needing to get guys better, I’d agree with you here.

However, I just hope we win the division and get at least one home playoff game.

 

The biggest thing I've advocated for since joining this forum is stability- same QB, coach, offensive coordinator, and GM. That's such a huge advantage in the NFL and switching things up every year or two doesn't do anything good for the team. I do agree that you have to find the right pieces, but our turnover is one of the biggest reasons we've remained a .500 team for two decades.

Think about it- Tannehill ran 5 offenses in Miami, Tua is on his 3rd. How much better would RT have been running one offense for six years with the same players and coaches? We'll never know. But we're already seeing those dividends with Tua and I think it will continue to improve in time.

 

I remembered that you built a big home a few years ago, but I didn't expect 3.2M! LOL!

 

I agree. We beat the Cowboys. The 49ers beat the Ravens. Then we beat the Ravens and week 18 is a throwaway game that doesn't matter. Dinged up players can then get two full weeks of rest before our playoffs start.

We just need those three games to go our way, and 2 of the 3 are our games.

 

Tannehill was set up for failure right from jump street. The Dolphins bring in Joe Philbin, who benefited from Aaron Rodgers running Mike McCarthy’s system in Green Bay and made Philbin seem like an offensive genius. Well that didn’t pan out too well for the Dolphins.

Then they brought in Adam Gase who was viewed as some offensive guru and quarterback whisperer. Well he had one good season with a mediocre quarterback in Chicago and benefited from having Manning in Denver. Again, that didn’t pan out well for the Dolphins.

Both of these head coaches were so terrible that they’re not even in the league anymore. Stupid hires on the part of the front office. Had Tannehill had a Mike McDaniel type of head coach…that could truly mold an offense around Tannehill’s talents, the Dolphins might have faired much better than he did. We all saw what Tannehill did when he went to the Titans. Vrabel had built a good team…he just needed THAT quarterback to bring it all together.

Barring anything catastrophic or the wheels completely falling off the wagon, I don’t see McDaniel nor Tagovailoa going anywhere anytime soon and that continuity is going to pay dividends for the Dolphins for at least the next decade.

Are we going to have playoff winning seasons every year? Of course not. Not even Shula and Marino had that, but the Dolphins were always a feared and respected team that others dreaded playing and I can see that being the Dolphins future for some time to come.

 

#1 seed is clearly better. Week off, home field advantage through the playoffs, and you've basically "won" a playoff game for free. I think this team learned its lesson about not coasting from Tennessee. No need to make it harder.

 

I completely agree and really, the same argument could be made for Sparano, Ricky Williams, and Chad Henne. I remember "fist pump" Tony saying it wasn't Henne's fault and he was getting a raw deal...and he was right. There was just so much chaos throughout the organization that the kid never had a chance.

Tony wasn't the right coach for Henne, by the way...not trying to make that argument. Ultra conservative coach with a big-armed QB just isn't a good idea. But we tossed the QB, then the coach less than a year later, then the GM, then the coach again, then two QB changes...it's a rollercoaster that never seems to end and you can't be consistent while you're taking the ride.

I think we would have been better off with Tony/Henne for 4 years in the same system, even if they were ultimately the wrong pieces. That's why I've been very critical of any major turnover on our .500 teams. I'm thrilled where we eventually ended up but good gosh, it shouldn't have taken decades.

 

Tannehill was never the right QB. You want two things in a QB: sustained elite production, and the ability to carry the team when the rest of the team isn't playing well. Tannehill proved he can provide elite production if somehow you put together a team as powerful as the Titans had in 2019-2020, which btw is exceptionally difficult to do. Either way, it's not sustained elite production. More importantly, Tannehill proved that even with a great team around him he still can't carry the team when necessary. It's not an accident that he's no better than a backup QB today.

We should have moved on from Tannehill as soon as it (statistically) became clear he wasn't good enough, which was in 2014. Even absent that foresight, we should have moved on after his injury in 2017. Sticking with average-ish QBs for the sake of stability is what leads to sustained mediocrity.

 

Pretending that a QB who is putting up elite numbers has to also somehow be the entire team and catch the ball, block, run the ball, and play defense is just complete absurdity.

If we don’t win a playoff game is Tyreek not one of the best WR’s in the NFL? Mostert? Wilkins? Those two must suck if that happens, too.

Complete foolishness and lack of understanding how football works.

 

When a team…TEAM gets to the playoffs, it’s a TEAM win or a TEAM loss, and that goes from the head coach all the way down to the last 3rd stringer on the bench.

You expect your starters to play well and if they don’t, often the blame is placed on their shoulders. Sometimes it’s not on the players. Sometimes it’s on the coaches. Sometimes it’s just the simple fact you lost to a better team.

Last season, we just barely lost to the Bills in the wildcard playoff game…with Skylar Thompson at quarterback. I think with Tua at the helm on offense, and hopefully the lessons McDaniel has learned, we’ll fair better offensively.

Defensively, our team is by far MUCH better than last season’s.

We are a much more complete TEAM heading into the playoffs this year than last. If we can get enough home games, and barring catastrophic injuries, we should fair quite well.

 

I was arguing arm strength in isolation, it was not meant to set anything up. You just don't want to agree with me on anything because you don't like my overal opinion on Tua.

Goalposts have been clear since the beginning of the season, we need to at least win a playoff game for me to feel like we are actually making progress as a team (re grier), and Tua should be able to make it through a whole season and come up big in the big games and situations if we are going to sign him long term.

 

Your arm strength argument is a set up because you're not acknowledging that it's irrelevant in Tua's case. Tua's production is elite despite average arm strength, yet you've consistently used arm strength as one reason why Tua isn't elite (in addition to McD's scheme and Hill).

Yes the current goalposts are clear. Doesn't change the fact you're famous for constantly moving them, which is why I said we'll have to wait and see if you move these too.

 

I'm not sure you're correct. Tannehill was a product of Miami's system (all 5 of them). Yes, Tennessee was optimal for him just like Miami is now optimal for Tua. But that's how it should be for every team and every quarterback, it should be an organization working together to get the most out of their signal caller. It's the most important thing in all of this.

If Tannehill were in San Fran at the moment, he'd be a top-3 quarterback just like Purdy is. And that's not a knock on Purdy or a hype on Tannehill...every QB has succeeded there. The system is just as important or maybe even more important than the QB, in my opinion anyway.

 

I have no problems being wrong, I have been man enough to admit when I am wrong here multiple times. I've never seen you do the same, stop projecting your insecurities on me. No, that video does not "prove" anything. Vick was not thought of as having a weak arm because he actually didn't have a weak arm, being left handed has nothing to do with it. Vick, Boomer Esiason, Mark Brunnell, Tim Tebow, even our very own Scott Mitchell, all left handed QBs, and no one ever accused them of having arm strength issues because they actually did have strong arms.

Being left handed and this "cognitive estrangement" excuse has nothing to with why people don't think Tua has a strong arm.

You are wrong on this one, admit it for once.

 

No. Blaming Tannehill's failures on everyone else is like crediting Tua's success on everyone else. With large sample size it IS the player we're talking about. Tannehill would never have been a great QB. The inability to overcome adversity would doom him no matter where he went.

And don't think anyone can just do what Purdy is doing, though Purdy does need to keep this up for another season just like Tua did before crediting him too much. Suggesting anyone can perform the same on a great team is the same type of argument many made about Brady, that it was all Belichick's system. That was proven wrong in spectacular fashion. With large sample size, credit (and blame) the player, not the system.

 

San Fran wasn't looking like a top 3 offense with Jimmy G.

Purdy's ability to read the field and make quick decisions is A LOT better than Tannehill.

 

This is kinda like the Tannehill argument about his receivers having small catch radiuses when talking about his not being accurate. Never heard that argument before or since

 

Poor kid. Your scrambling isn’t very good.

Again, Tua can, and has many times, made every throw any NFL QB is asked to make. He can make every throw. He throws short, outside the numbers, deep, quick, accurate… he can throw them all. You’re confusing being able to throw a ball 50 yards on his knees with throws NFL QB’s need to make in order to be an NFL QB. He can make all the throws. You’re confusing throwing a 75 yard Hail Mary with a throw that an NFL QB needs to make. He can make all the throws. There are no designed plays for those types of throws. Not one. You’re not able to grasp the actual things a QB must be able to do and instead ohh-ing and ahh-ing at parroted narratives from the sports media trying to get ratings.
Basically, you’re at 3rd grade level math trying to speak on differential geometry.
Once again you’re wrong. Which is fine, we’ve all been wrong. But you’re not mature enough to admit to being wrong. You even go so far as to lie about things you’ve written in the past and then deny it further when you’ve been shown you wrote it.

 

I’m guilty of the Brady and BB thing. I thought for sure if he played somewhere else he’d be half the QB he was in NE and thought that BB could win with most any QB.

And what does Brady do? He leaves and wins another Super Bowl. Man I hate that guy. lol

 

Tua haters soon gonna be like

“Well, I still haven’t seen Tua score 37 points on December 29th in a 4:25pm game against a playoff team without Tyreek and Waddle in bad weather when the temp is less than 37 degrees and Mostert doesn’t score a TD with no RPO’s or go balls on the road in a hostile environment where McDaniel lets Fangio call the offensive plays with Taylor Swift in attendance on prime time while the Manningcast has Flores as a live guest”.

That’s about all they have left.

 

Just a lot of finger pointing going on. The argument rages on. I assume it always will at this point.

 

I think Purdy is seriously talented and again, that wasn't meant to be a knock on him at all. Jimmy G had great success in that offense as well as Trey Lance and even Kaepernick way back when. Purdy looks to be the best of the four, but that offense does a lot of "cover up" due to the system and distributing the ball quickly. RT would do well there...and I think Tua would as well (Tua would likely be the better of the two). Most QB's would find success in that system unless they're truly below average.

I don't want to get into another RT conversation, we've been there and done that, LOL.

 

I feel the same way, BUT that Tampa team was absolutely loaded for a 1-2 year run. Basically the same thing the Jets did this year...except it was the Jets, LMAO.

I can't stand Brady either, but I guess he was a decent enough QB. Those who call him the GOAT are just jerks, LOL.

 

I know you don't want to start another RT conversation, but you're equating RT and Tua too much for me to let this go. RT would likely perform slightly above average in SF. Tua would likely be one of the best QBs in the league. Can't compare the two. As long as people think that somehow Tannehill was worth keeping as a franchise QB here, the debate is worth rehashing because keeping Tannehill prevented us from getting a good enough QB to truly become a top team. One of the best things to happen to this franchise in the last decade was getting rid of Tannehill. Thankfully we don't have a QB issue anymore. Amazing to be able to say that after decades of wait.

 

As long as trolls are allowed to post with no consequence of being shamed or called out it will.