My opinion we dont have a bigtime coach or Qb

I'm not sure how often I have to say it. Tua showed things last year that I didn't think he would show. So, yes, my stance on Tua is not what it was three years ago. However, I've ALWAYS said that I thought Tua was at worst an above average QB who barring injury would have a decent career.

This narrative that I hate Tua is simply not true. I've pointed out many times that I'll argue any point that I think is invalid, but that doesn't mean that I think Tua is trash. Just because I'm not convinced that Tua can be effective without having the two best receivers in the league does not mean that I want to replace him.

 

That wasn't an evaluation.

I don't recall seeing Tua making lesser players more productive. Not saying he can't, but can you give me a specific example?

 

Just simply a lie. You said "all along" that he was AT BEST a slightly above average QB:
https://thephins.com/threads/tua-is-not-the-problem.96818/page-59#post-3481062

You just love to lie. Serial misrepresentation. And now you'll once again claim you're a victim of being misrepresented despite direct evidence you're the one that keeps lying about what you said.

 

Omg

 

Every team in the league this year has lost to a .500 or worse team, besides Miami.

The Ravens lost a home game to an under .500 team. That's worse than losing two road games to the previous Super Bowl teams.

 

He has made that same claim many times. Just unbelievable.

 

You don't have any concern that he is only putting them up against bad teams? The 3 big games so far this year he has not been very good at all. You cant give him credit for only the good games against bad teams.

 

92. 87 and 87 were his QB ratings in the losses. Not great, I know he's expected to put up 110+ every game, but not horrible like you are saying.

Burrow had two games in the 50's. Josh Allen had a game in the 60's. Mahomes had a game in the 50's and 60's.

 

Mr. TOS seems to be violating the TOS here.

 

Tough guy losenor has to resort to the threat of knocking someone's teeth out.

 

lol, exactly, check this one out.

Mike gesicki has 160 yards and 1 td in 9 games, he made that bad football player have 800 yards in his last season here.

 

mike gesicki, Devante parker, trent sherfield, Lynn bowden, Isiah ford. Preston williams.

he was handing off to myles gaskin as his starter, jordan howard, matt breida, chase edmunds.

shall I continue.

your analysis lacks proper context and perspective, like I said Tua will maximize any weapons that the gm gives him, the weapons are responsible for the production not tua.

 

You've been consistent in that opinion, all the way from draft day. It's not just one post. Here are two others:
https://thephins.com/threads/tua-is-not-the-problem.96818/page-25#post-3438795

https://thephins.com/threads/week-2-miami-1-0-at-baltimore-1-0.97738/page-5#post-3482151

Just admit you lied and move on. Or don't and I'll keep pointing it out. And the fact you are lying won't change even with your threat of violence.

 

dude you need to read and think before you hot post.

theres nothing wrong with a little accountability..He showed you that you are missrepresenting yourself in a debate, thats how debates work.

 

When two people are debating and one of them resorts to violence they've totally lost the argument. Sad.

 

again digging himself a hole..

 

Oof.

 

Wait.... you mean that

"At best a slightly above average QB" doesn't mean the same thing as "at worst a slightly above average QB"?

How is that possible??? They are only different by ONE WORD! That is an all or nothing position. You are expecting every word to match. That is not reasonable.

 

Wow. Tuanon has gone completely insane.

This is the worst I have ever seen.

This makes the Tanne threads look like nothing!

After the first game, you all immediately started off complaining that anti Tua guys weren’t posting. You all were hurtling insults around. You all were getting so worked up and angry that you got the thread shutdown! ….and there were hardly, if any anti Tua people posting. Hahaha!!
You all were arguing with ghosts! Haha!

After the first game,
I made a positive post about Tua and the team. Unfortunately, the thread got shut down a few posts later because you all were losing it and insulting people for not being in the thread. Haha! Totally crazy.

You have little angry statisticians going nuts, keeping dossiers on posters going back years. Haha! …and flip flopping all over the place. It’s demented.

Calling out some posters for thanking other people’s posts?? Haha! Holy!

Some of you are ruining these boards like I have never seen in all of my years here, all while constantly calling other people trolls because they disagree with you.

You all are the ones clearly trolling and ruining this place.

There are a lot of you who I have always really liked. Really messed up that it comes to this.

Chill, mofos?



Jftr

 

sounds like some posters cant handle some accountability..

so they complain about the board, sorry whiners.

 

Hahaha!! Wha???

See this s—t???
Case in point.

Dude, I go back with you many many years and I gotta’ tell you, you have lost your s—t and become a total goofball. Good job.

 

I don't think he made those look better than they were? Parker has pretty much played the same his entire career. I thought Gesicki was incredibly underused, but now a QB in his first couple seasons leaning on a TE means he's "making" that player? I just don't understand the argument you're making. I didn't watch any of those guys going, Man This guy looks good this year!

I don't agree that he will maximize ANY talent around him. I think when you give him weapons he does more with then than other guys. Essentially he's like an F1 driver...if you give him a ****ty car, he loses. If he has a really good car, he'll win you championships.

You guys act like I think Tua sucks. I don't.

 

gesicki incredibly underused, the guy is the most one dimensional player in the game, Tua made him viable.

every qb in the game will have better production relative to their weapons, this is basic common sense.

stats will increase or decrease at the qb position based on the talent levels of the weapons he has.

the reason I say tua will exploit the weapons whatever he is given is becaue he's the most accurate and most anticipatpory qb in football so those weapons will get the ball in the right place, what they do with it after is up to their talent level..if you don't get that part then this convo is moot.

your f1 analogy shows me you dont understand the traits of Tua and we now know how you feel about the player again..it is the opposite of that analogy btw..

 

No, you think he is at worst or best a slightly above average QB.

 

This speaks VOLUMES about our head coach.

 

As I listened to Eisen summarize the meeting I thought to myself, how wonderful it would be if all of us had that one person (other than family) that truly BELIEVED in us and pointed out all of our POSITIVES and made our negatives seem like a challenge that BOTH were going to overcome together. That one person that TRULY believed in you.

I think we would all have more of a positive outlook in our lives.

 

Ok, but what Quarterback has the best receiver in the league on his team his entire career? I'd be hard-pressed to think of anyone outside of Jerry Rice/Montana/Young. Peyton Manning had Marvin Harrison until he didn't. Tom Brady had Randy Moss until he didn't Aaron Rodgers had Devante Adams until he moved on to LV. Ben Roethlisberger had Brown until Vontaze Burfict put him on tilt. Matthew Stafford won his Super Bowl after his era with Calvin Johnson. It's one hell of a luxury to have Hill (who is at the apex right now) on this team. Tua...Is no different from any other quarterback in this league that sees receivers come and go throughout their careers. It'll be on him to adjust and to continue to find a way to do what he does well which is pass the football. You can't sit around and worry about who Tua is going to throw to in five years from now because that's out of your control. I just don't see the logic behind using that as the reason why you don't want Tua here long-term. Clearly what you're saying is that Hill and Waddle are the reasons that Tua has been so good, not that he's a good Quarterback.

At the end of the day, I can understand why you don't fully trust Tua or the thought of him being here long term. It's been a debatable start for him. He had a rough go with Brian Flores to begin with. Last year he fell off due to injuries and ended the season on a poor note. This year he's come up average against three of the best teams in the entire league. There's still a lot to unpack with him. There's still a lot to see. But worrying about something that we can't control years from now isn't going to do you a bit of good.

 

Did anyone apologize for the physical threats hurled at a fellow poster yet?

 

I posted this on another site about QB's and their pass ratings on the road this season...

Mahomes

• JAX- 98.1
• NYJ - 63.6
• MIN - 109.9
• DEN - 59.1

Allen

• NYJ - 62.7
• WASH - 79.9
• NE - 90.0
• CIN - 85.2

Hurts

• NE - 89.2
• TB - 71.6
• LAR - 87.9
• NYJ - 59.5
• WSH - 135.7

Herbert

• TEN - 104.2
• MIN - 123.8
• KC - 68.6
• NYJ - 65.4
• Home to Dallas (good D) - 84.0

Burrow

• CLE - 52.2
• Home to BAL (good D) - 85.6
• TEN - 80.6
• ARI - 108.1
• SF - 134.8 (brilliant that game)

Incidentally, Herbert's last 5 games have ratings of 72, 84, 68, 122, 65. If that was Tua certain members of this board would be screaming for him to be benched.

Tua

• LAC - 110.0
• NE - 92.2
• BUF - 92.8
• PHI - 87.5
• KC - 87.0

Tua has yet to have a truly horrible game this season, look at some of the games the other 5 QB's have put up.

 

I'm not saying they are the reason...I'm saying FOR ME I'm not convinced that it's not more them than him.

I haven't seen him be successful without great weapons.

Generally I agree with your post.

 

I think the F1 example is the only legitimate example. He doesn't possess elite physical traits. Give him weapons and he can maximize his accuracy and decision making. Give him lesser weapons, and his inherent things aren't nearly as effective.

That isn't me ****ting on Tua, or hating on him, or anything. That is just my honest take. You can disagree, but I'm not hating on the player.

 

No one disagrees that Tua doesn’t have elite physical traits.

We all get that.

The crux of this debate is he has other elite traits that are showing out in the field.

Traits that you and some pundits on Tv are not seeing how they translate to the game.

The F1 example is way off for reasons I stated

He has one elite receiver and he’s the highest EPA Qb in the game..

Yeah there’s a lot more to the position then throwing hard and far.

 

The problem with this fanbase is what has come before. And i mean that 2 ways.
Every QB is compared to 13 and every coach is compared to Shula.

and both positions carry the scares of every hack that we’ve had since those 2 transformative figures.

as such, we project every flaw we’ve seen since onto the them, and using comparison as the thief of joy, expect the QB and HC to be Marino and Shula or they need to go out with the bath water.

thats silly. Much worse QBs have gone to a superbowl, as have much much worse head coaches. Can you win with this pairing? Absolutely. unequivocally.

Look whats being built around them, tailored to their strengths.
Each of those positions requires if before anything else, the folks helming the ship to be leaders of men.

you have that in spades. These guys LOVE McD. And Tua is their field general. Why? Because his skin is so thick from what he endured, he doesnt parse blame. He says its all on him. He wears his accountability to shield his teammates. Leadership starts with using your thumb to point instead of your finger, and they both espouse that.

is this team THERE as a finished product? No! Still a few holes. And thats ok. All teams have them.
Can this team do damage? Oh god yes.
Is it on the precipice of their 4th winning season in a row for the first time in decades? Yessir.
Enjoy the ride. We get a home playoff game with a division champs hat and hang a 30 burger on someone in the opening game of the playoffs and all youll be able to say is “WE’RE BACK.”

 

Explain why.

 

I don't agree that he doesn't have elite physical traits. His release quickness and foot quickness are elite. Those are physical traits. His size and speed are not elite. If you are going to include arm strength as a physical trait then you also need to include other aspects of arm talent like the ability to throw with touch, layer the ball, throw with different arm angles, etc. Those are all elite.

 

Only Tua isn't allowed bad games.....

 

Sadly the sentiment of a bunch of posters goes well beyond that. We have posters saying Tua will doom the franchise once we sign him long term, that Mac Jones and Tannehill (who has now officially been demoted as backup) would do as well in this offense as Tua. The idea that you can take some of the worst performing QBs in the league, substitute them into this offense and expect #1 offense production is nothing less than ridiculous. You have to have an agenda to make those kinds of claims.

This isn't about Marino or Shula. It's about holding onto pre-draft views that Tua can't play at a high level unless he's got an elite surrounding cast, ignoring how difficult it is for any QB to sustain such production regardless of surrounding cast, and ignoring Tua's ability to play elite despite a bad OL. Sample size and playoff success are the only viable criticisms left, and the first one is slowly dissipating.