Tua..

Even with the technicality you are going for he still had more yards in just the Tua games then he did with just Mahomes in 2021.

 

Agreed with all this.

I'll say in regards to Teddy. We never really got a good look at him. He never started or finished one game in the season, and I don't think he had one game with Armstead. Bridgewater did outplay Tua in Cincy. As for Skylar, I don't think he's an NFL QB. He just can't process quick enough. Has plenty of heart though and willing to get murdered to make a throw.

 

He also had less targets with Mahomes with more TDs.

 

Well his numbers with Tua were better than his numbers with Teddy or Skylar:

With Tua - 108 yards and 0.54 TDs per game
Without Tua - 76 yards and 0 TDs per game

so a full season Tua and he'd be better than with Mahomes.... now we're getting somewhere. LOL.

 

Look at those goal posts go

 

Teddy didn't start and finish a game, and Skylar isn't NFL material. We agree Tua is much better than Skylar.

 

Well first set the goalposts. You want to define what better is?

 

108 yards per game is higher than he averaged any season with Mahomes.

 

Throwing more often to a receiver tends to do that. Tua very reliant on Hill.

 

Dont get me started with Teddy.. probably my least favorite dolphin in the last ten years. And i was for him when we signed him, thought he would be a nice addition incase we needed to go to the backup qb.. He quit on this team last season when we needed him with that phantom finger injury.. and showed no effort or desire to be here. He was a different guy in New Orleans behind Brees..

 

For WRs the two most important stats are actually volume stats (due to longevity): total yards and total TDs. Those two stats highly correlate with who gets in the HoF. Better than any others. Of course that's over a career. But still that gives you a benchmark.

So you should look at total yards, yards per game, total TDs, and TDs per game. Hill was better with Tua for the yards stats and worse for the TD stats. It's a wash. Based on the most important stats for WRs you really can't claim Tua was any worse than Mahomes w.r.t. Hill.

 

In just the 12.5 Tua games

Second most yards in his career
Most yards per game in his career
More yards than 2021

So even with the goal post moving of "games without Tua don't count" his stats still didn't get worse

 

Again, throwing more to a receiver is going to result in more yards.

 

Mahomes last year lost Tyreek Hill, and went from 3rd in EPA to 1st.

 

But he had more yards per catch too vs 2021

 

He also had the most yards per target in his CAREER with Alex Smith.

 

And?

All you needed to say was "yeah I am glad to be wrong about him being worse with Tua. Their chemistry was a pleasant surprise"

 

And yards doesn't mean everything? He had more TDs with Mahomes. I'll take TDs over yards all day. Every team would.

Additionally, Tua skipped the best pass defense (Jets) twice! You guys keep comparing apples to oranges.

 

He needs to twist around his argument to fit the narrative.....QBs make WRs better right up until you include Tua in the conversation... then it magically reverses. AMAZING!

 

And yet..... Hill has publicly stated his goal is to go over 2000 YARDS this season.... on pace for 3600 baby!

 

You consistently don't read. I've said it can be both.

 

From your lips to God's ears.

 

Oh, wow. That is funny.

 

*cough cough*

 

I know, depending on your narrative.... keep up.

 

Based on your logic, Alex Smith made Tyreek. Odd, probably alone on that island, but you do you.

 

A bunch of people said Tua was a backup in the league and Tyreek was going to waste the end of his career here. Pretty common thought really.

Now...Tua could throw for 5,000 yards and 40 TDs and there will be a sizable group saying “but can he do it again?”...instead of being happy he’s their team’s QB.

 

Yeah, and notice all the no-shows after Tua plays well. Lots of posters are happy to post when Tua doesn't play well, but are near invisible when he plays well. Really shows you where they stand.

 

No. I completely agree, and why I think their defense played poorly. Tua did the right thing, but single covering Tyreek was crazy dumb. They also didn't bump him at the line. I don't expect that to be the norm.

Like on that TD pass up the sideline, receiver plays up at the line, doesn't actually bump him, and then has no help up top the sideline. Bro.

 

Based on MY? logic....

Is there something confusing you about these plain statements?

 

Before my time but maybe Paul Warfield? 20 yards per catch for your career is insane.

Also, Mahomes lost Tyreek but he still had probably the best receiving TE ever who is a complete mis-match against nearly every defence. Doesn't detract from Mahomes' greatness though but he essentially had 2 HOF receivers to throw to.

 

Oh OK. My mistake. So don't know what you are arguing? QBs can't make WRs better? There's a lot of examples of this in the league. Certainly receivers believe their QBs can make them better. Seems like a bad argument.

I'm still waiting for you to show me where I said "that Hill would be WORSE with Tua." Or did you just make that up?

 

Wrong. There are examples of QBs hurting their WRs. Bad throws, bad reads. etc. They cannot make them better. Does Mahomes make WRs run better routes? Catch better? Run faster? Get taller? what???? I guarantee that a top WR doesn't believe they need Mahomes in order to be an elite WR. Ask Tyreek.... He has already made that clear.

Same in reverse. WRs don't make QBs better. A better WR does not make a QB more accurate or make better decisions or give him a stronger arm. A bad WR can hurt the QB by running the wrong routes, dropping passes, etc.

Better QBs and WRs make the OFFENSE better. They do not make each other better. Pretty simple.

 

I think when most people say the QB makes the WR "better" or vice versa they're not referring to the inherent ability of the WR, they're talking about whether that pairing is likely to increase WR production. At least that's been the context of this debate with all the WR stats trotted out. Ability-wise you're right of course, at least over shorter periods of time where adaptation isn't part of the equation.

 

See you skipped finding that post again. Will just take that as an apology and you made that up.

Simple for you, but not very simple in reality. There's been studies on this, just one example Randy Moss. They breakdown this down very well:
https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...-have-been-the-greatest-receiver-of-all-time/

 

btw.. Moss is a great example of why you can't just dismiss the Hill example because he's elite. Moss was elite in Minny and in NE, but not in Oakland, which occurred between Minny and NE. In other words, pair Moss with a mediocre QB and he won't put up elite numbers. So Tua+Hill vs. Mahomes+Hill is a valid comparison. Can't just dismiss Hill because he's elite.