Tua is not the Problem

Have you just given up now? The 7 year old comebacks are getting boring.

 

Pot meet kettle

 

Every QB does it so you want no QBs on your team.

 

So do you see why these discussions turn into arguments?

I stated that I don't like my QB throwing into quadruple coverage.

Now:

1. You've gaslit me, telling me that stance isn't controversial, yet you've now spent several posts attempting to convince me that it isn't a problem to throw into quadruple coverage, which leads to...

2. Me defending that position repeatedly, creating an impression that I'm attempting to harp on Tua's limitations, which...

3. Can start to cause other posters to attack me, which will...

4. Cause me to continue to defend my position.

Yes, it's absolutely ridiculous to now be defending Tua throwing into quadruple coverage. This is something we might call a "rookie mistake" or "hearing footsteps." Just admit that Tua should not be throwing into quadruple coverage, and move on.

This is an asinine argument to be having.

 

Again with this ridiculous zero-sum-game.

Yes, in your world, I will go without a QB.

Although you have yet to provide any evidence to back up your multiple claims:

1. Claim: Tua didn't throw into quadruple coverage more than other QBs, and

2. That every QB throws into quadruple coverage

 

Or we just agree to disagree. You’ve got your concerns about some unspecified number of throws into quadruple coverage. I’ve got my statistics about his best in the league passing efficiency.

 

let’s start a new one. I don’t like my qb throwing into 11 person coverages.

 

Either elevate your game and stop trying so hard to regurgitate the same narrative or this is the way it’s gonna be all day every day.

 

So tough. Discuss football. Not other posters. Basic Community Standards.

 

thats the problem, you just wanna try to bully people into your negativity because you dont know any other way but to try and bring people down..i read everyone of your posts..all you do is spew one sided negativity about the qb

 

Just stop being condescending. I never said that Tua is worse than others, I never said that we should get rid of him over it.

I said I don't like having a QB that does that. That is my opinion. You decided to argue with me about it. So no, I'm not going to agree to disagree, I didn't even want to argue about it in the first place.

 

So are you just trying to get the thread shut down again?

Just constantly trolling.

But to play your game, yes, I would be upset with my QB throwing into 11 man coverage. If every defensive player is downfield covering receivers, I would expect my QB and oline to just start running down the field. It would be asinine to throw it.

 

I'm not looking to bully anyone. You are the one who wanted to make this personal. I'm discussing the QB, who last time I checked doesn't know you or I exist. You take personal offense when someone comments about Tua like he's your son.

 

So, is it Diggs that makes Allen look elite in the way that Tua is only good because of Hill and Waddle?

 

We can end this very simply. I don't like my QB throwing into quadruple coverages either. I'm sure they are working on that along with every other aspect of his game. In the meantime, I don't think it happens any more often than any other top QB who plays aggressively. It certainly didn't lead to a high INT %, so there is nothing to worry about.

So to get in front of other things I don't want but are mostly currently non-issues... I don't like my QB:

- throwing INTs
- making inaccurate throws
- making late throws
- taking sacks
- fumbling the ball
- misreading the defense
- making an incorrect audible
- missing a correct audible
- putting his cleats on one at time
- singing karaoke (unless he is really good)
- killing baby seals

sorry, couldn't help myself on the last few....

 

Dude, it was a joke.....

 

As I said, he was off in the Pitt game. I was there. Bad game for Tua. Even while not playing well, he was 21 of 35 for 260 yards and a 92.7 rating. I'll take that as his bad games when it is surrounded by games like 29 of 36 for 382 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs, and a 138.7 rating.

As long as he limits the bad games and stays healthy, he is not going anywhere.

 

its a dolphin fan message board, lets find out what type of fan you are.

 

I think durability is the only concern with him at this point. Everything else is there for him to be a very good quarterback in this league. Physically he's not Josh Allen or Justin Herbert and some people on here are never going to get over that. Then again both Warren Moon and Drew Brees were around the same size as Tua and they were also great at the position. Keep the injuries down, keep him upright and this team can win 11+ games every year and be right in the mix for postseason success for the next decade. I honestly don't see what there is to complain about.

 

There are plenty of QBs currently playing in the league that are right around the same size as Tua:

5-10, 207lb
5-11, 215lb
6-1, 210lb
6-1, 215lb
6-1, 217lb
6-1, 223lb
6-2, 212lb
6-2, 214lb
6-2, 215lb
6-2, 219lb
6-3, 205lb

 

Different rules for QBs not named Tua.

 

Troll.

My opinion, from watching the games, is that Tua was incredibly lucky to not throw more picks, when he was throwing fairly often into double/triple/quadruple coverage.

I'm sorry, but your assurance that there is nothing to worry about does not alleviate my concerns.

 

Tua isn't 6'1. He's the 3rd smallest QB in the league at 6'0.

 

Why do you feel the need to attempt to convince people that Tua has no limitations?

I truly don't understand what you're attempting to do. Why are you attempting to minimize any shortcoming that Tua may have? It is impossible to have a conversation if your stance is that your viewpoint is correct, and everyone else needs to just put on your aqua colored glasses and not discuss limitations.

It is preferable to have a QB who:

1. Has a strong arm
2. Doesn't throw into triple coverage or worse
3. Isn't shorter than 6'2"
4. Isn't fragile

 

Pretty bad *** what he’s accomplished thus far in his early career considering what he was up against in his first two years for a 6 ft Qb

Too 5 Mvp candidate at 25

 

I prefer a Qb who anticipates at a high level, is very accurate and has a very quick release

I don’t much care about how tall a Qb is , I think there are advantages both ways

The missing link for Tua to me is to start to recognize when to cut a defense with his legs in a smart fashion..

That’s absolutely missing

 

Yeah I don't think height, or strength, or whatever, is the end-all-be-all. I do think, though, that if you aren't 6'2" and 225, then you have a disadvantage...unless you are able to do damage with your legs. I definitely agree, Tua needs to do more with his legs...but I'm also concerned that he won't slide, which will open him up to injuries.

 

Should be interesting to see what he learns about becoming that dual threat his trainer is practicing.

 

Yep. Again, I truly truly hope Tua proves that he can last a season. It would make things so much better if we had a stable QB.

 

Got all the info from pro football reference. Take it up with them.

 

Did I say he has no limitations? Just agreeing with the other poster that his size is not an anomaly in the league. Why does that bother you?

 

Agree to disagree. K?

 

Hey we had that QB on our roster the year before we drafted Tua. His name was Josh Rosen.

Arm strength is over rated because its most visible part of throwing the ball. I look at it as a matrix of
- Throwing at the optimal time aka decision making which includes ore and post snap reads and anticipation.
- being able to disguise where the pass is going
- release speed
- accuracy (more accurate passes require less adjustment from receivers)
- arm strength
The key is the amount of time defenses have to react to the ball.


Tua actually had pretty good record throwing into tight coverages, because his accuracy allowed him to fit the ball into smaller windows than other QBs can. For example this throw against the Pats is into triple coverage

Now I’m not saying throwing into triple coverage is a good thing, but NFL defenses don’t let QBs make easy throws to open receivers all day long. I feel safer with Tua throwing into tight windows than any QB we’ve had since Dan Marino.

Historically most of the best QBs have been between 6’2 and 6’5. So yeah, it would be nicer if he was taller, but being 5’11 or 6’0 is not an insurmountable challenge and there have been enough successful QBs in this height range to say it doesn’t disqualify Tua.

Fragility is the one thing we all agree on is a worry heading into the future.

 

It's only a disadvantage if there aren't other traits that compensate for it. That's why you look at performance first, not physical attributes. Brees didn't do damage with his legs and he was 6-0. But no one cares because he consistently put up elite stats. After last year it's hard to attack Tua on physical attributes (except durability) because he proved he could play at an elite level for a sustained period of time with less than ideal physical attributes.

The only physical limitation Tua has that's worth mentioning is durability. Not arm strength and not height, etc. Performance is what matters, and lack of durability affected his performance (he wasn't able to perform when it counted most).

 

To be fair you should compare Tua’s ‘almost interceptions’ against Pickett’s actual for real life interceptions from that game.
I can’t find a video to isolate them, but you can fund them in this highlughts package.

The worst throw of Tua’s ‘almost interceptions’ is a better throw in terms of devision making and accuracy than the best throw of Pickett’s actual interceptions.

 

See you're strawman arguing. I didn't make any judgements. I simply stated, if you aren't prototypical size/strength for the position, then you need to have extratypical skills elsewhere to make up. I've already stated that i don't need to see anything playwise from Tua. I need to see him make it through a complete season. His health is my only major concern.

Everything else I talk about is just football talk. Talking pros and cons of players. Very little engagement in my All-Pros for Tua thread, everyone preferred to stay in this thread and argue.

 

No you're strawman arguing. I didn't say you made a judgment. All I said is that it's not a disadvantage in Tua's case because his performance with those physical disadvantages was elite.

Stop with the strawman argument that I'm making a strawman argument.

 

Tua is elite in four major catergories for Qb skillset

Anticipation
Accuracy
Release
Touch

Which I would take over

Height
Arm strength

 

I agree, the problem is those are his only elite skills. Everywhere else (arm strength, size, athleticism, durability, and football IQ) he is average to below average.

 

He was an MVP candidate last year before he got hurt.

If Tua plays 15-17 games this season, he will be an MVP candidate again.

The only real concern for him is health at this point. He is looking jacked in some of his latest pictures. He definitely bulked up even more. I'm not worried about concussions. He is not anymore susceptible than any other player playing in the league right now.

Hopefully, luck is with him next year.