Tua is not the Problem

I mean, I just don't see a new game when I've watched Tua play. Lol

Not saying that as any sort of dig.

 

Bless McDaniel's heart

 

Yeah but what does Mike McDaniel know about football

 

NFL Head Coach: "Tua is doing some really great stuff on film."

Shlub: "I don't see it he's probably lying just to make Tua feel better."

 

Embellishing would be the proper term for what Mcdaniel did there. Although if you take what he said about "inventing football" literally, then yes he is lying.

 

imo what Tua is doing is some next level stuff when it all works..

Ive talked about this before a few times when I rewatched some things again.

Basically what I think is remarkable is he's doing things perherallly while actually throwing the football, so while moving people with his eyes hes also perepherally measuring/gauging the depth of his target and throwing to where he sees the player is gonna be, and most of the time when he does it, its accurate..

his innate accuracy is his superpower.

 

But I see him throw balls fairly routinely that I think aren't in great places. It's weird.

 

what do you mean?

 

What I mean is, when I'm watching games, I routinely see balls that are definitely catchable, but aren't in the best placement for the receiver. I don't have anything specific, just that I remember throughout the season, as I was watching games, I would see throws that I just didn't think were terribly accurate, often on short/intermediate passes, for a QB who is so lauded for his accuracy. And I repeatedly thinking to myself, "This guy is supposed to be crazy accurate?"

Also, I don't watch the games with a critical eye on Tua, any more than I'm critical of any other player on the field. So I'm not talking about like if he was under pressure or something. Just throws that I thought would have been differently placed if the QB has elite accuracy.

But then he makes some other throw that I'm dumbfounded by.

 

I saw that in a few games particularly the SF game, Cincy game, 2nd half against GB, and the Pitt game. I definitely did set that in either Bills game, the Pats game, the Ravens game, or the Det, Chi, Cle, or Hou games.

 

Tua's accuracy diminishes significantly whenever he cant fully set his feet and throw on time and with anticipation over the middle, and also whenever he has to throw to the outside or off angles.

In those games you mentioned defenses clogged the middle of the field, disguised coverages, and jammed recievers to disrupt timing and force tua to improvise or throw into coverage. That is where he struggles.

 

IMO, in the SF game, he was just pressing. I thought the throws that he was making for the last 5 weeks were there. He missed open throws. I don't recall what happened exactly in the Cincy game. I was at the Pitt game and, IMO, he was rusty from the layoff. I didn't see anything that Pitt was doing differently. 2nd half against GB was the concussion (IMO). The game that I saw a definite disruption by the defense was the LAC game. I don't think Tua was inaccurate. I think they took away the throws that Miami had game planned for. I also think they got away with mugging our receivers all game. Regardless, we did not adjust. I didn't see that tactic work the rest of the season.

I do agree that his accuracy suffers when he can't set his feet. Disrupting the timing will throw off any timing based offense. That needs to be countered by play calling, not the QB changing the timing of his throws. In particular, they need to make those defenses pay with the big plays. We saw it against the LAC. Just not often enough.

 

I think you're fixated on his first couple of years. that clearly was not the case last season. He had a couple of off-games when his protection was completely decimated, but so would the other top QBs if they had street level free agents playing tackle in front of him

 

I guess think what you want, but this was just last season. And it stood out to me because it was his third year and he was making decisions sometimes that you expect from a rookie (but that is separate from what I was taking about).

Again, I'm not talking about bad throws. Just I thought throws were often enough not in the best spot, especially for one who is said to have elite accuracy.

 

Cincy had good corners and was pressing recievers, also had safeties roaming the middle, they also had a good pass rush, cincy defense is legit. Pittsburgh started dropping linebackers over the middle taking away the sweetspots and timing routes, SF was disguising coverages and pressing recievers to disrupt timing, GB in the second half was clogging the middle of the field and forcing him to throw into coverage or to the outside, and LAC as you said had the perfect blueprint of jamming recievers and clogging the middle.

Basically as I've said before Tua is great as long as he can fully set and throw on time over the middle. When defenses concentrate on taking away the middle and disrupting timing, he struggles.

 

IMO, it is inappropriate to say "Tua struggled". More appropriate to say "the offense struggled". Any timing based offense struggles if the timing is disrupted. That is the whole point of the approach. That has nothing to do with Tua.

He does need to set his feet, but only on the longer throws. There are numerous examples of off platform throws on shorter routes, many for big plays or scores. Not arguing against the idea his limited arm strength means he needs a good base to throw from on throws that need power. Luckily, in this offense, the number of times that he cannot set his feet is pretty small. In addition, he is excellent at throwing with anticipation to offset his limited arm strength.

I also strongly disagree that he struggles to throw to the outside. Too many examples of that happening too. IMO, if it were that simple and the Bengals established the blueprint in week 4, Tua doesn't have the year he had. We can agree to disagree about the SF, GB and Pitt games.

One other thing, and correct me if I am wrong. But, I get the impression that you think Tua has been "figured out" and that means his success will be short lived. As I said in a previous post, "every QB gets figured out". Tom Brady? figured out. Josh Allen? totally figured out. Mahomes? figured out. The questions are "can the defense execute the strategy?" and "what can the offense do to counter?"

 

The problem is Tua does not improvise well. He has arm strength and football IQ limitations so if everything is not on point or on time he struggles. Yes, every QB is eventually figured out to some degree, and a timing based offense can be disrupted, the difference is those other QBs you mention have the arm strength, athleticism and football IQ to improvise and make plays happen on their own when things dont go exactly as planned. I dont think Tua handles those situatuons well.

 

And this is where McDaniel needs to work on his play calling. Change things up, run more, run effectively to allow play action to work, pass to the RBs coming out of the backfield, wheel routes, etc... Make the D respect the run game and have to react to it, this will help the passing game be less predictable and easy to defend against.

 

lets see what happens when he's in his 2nd year in a system for the first time, ball placement on those easy ones are about being settled mentally and physical mechanics..he still finished 2nd in completion percentage with get this the highest YPA.

thats a crazy stat res.

 

From about the 25 minute mark on…

 

Yeah it is. Man, I went from being "anti-Tua" through the first like 3 games of this season, he looked, to me, like he had in previous seasons. Decisions he was making, throws, etc. Then he went on that run starting with the 4th quarter of the Ravens game. By the end of that run, I was convinced that Tua was The Answer. I posted saying if he wants 13, he should be allowed.

Then came some poor/mediocre games, and my new found faith was waning. Then came the concussions and fencing response, and I arrived at where am today. I do not trust Tua to be able to stay healthy for an entire season, so it does not matter to me whether he is elite or not.

I don't care what stats he puts up this season, he has shown the capability of putting up big numbers, I don't need to see that. I NEED Tua to play the entire season. He can't be out for 3-5 games. If he misses that many games again, we need to move on.

 

yeam man no question, that he has to prove..

he's just 25, allow him the time to grow, once the system becomes 2nd nature I think your gonna see that level of performance that will be very evident.He's a practical learner needs to experience it to learn, not a chalkboard guy.

 

We can agree to disagree.

 

Agreed.

 

He was decent on on target throw % while being #1 in completed air yards per pass attempt by a full yard more than the second highest. His CAY/PA is 21% higher than the 2nd best (5.7 vs 4.7). There are 15 QBs between 4.7 and 3.7. The gap between Tua and the field was huge.

He threw the ball much farther down the field on average and maintained good accuracy.

 

What DJ is saying is, Tua takes the snap, analyzes the entire field and the coverage, then throws to a spot on the field while that receiver is still covered. A lot of those won't hit the receiver in stride because they're not open yet and Tua's tossing a "go get it over here" type of play, often without even looking in the receiver's direction because he's analyzing everything in his head (instead of with his eyes).

Combine that with him getting the ball out so fast and it's absolutely a superpower.

As others have pointed out, Tua led the league in QB rating, yards per attempt, yards per pass, TD percentage per pass, and many other categories. Throwing it the furthest and often the quickest is two things that don't go together, yet that's what we got.

 

How often does Tua audible after reading the defense pre-snap?

 

In due time.

First time the guy will be in his 2nd year in a particular scheme

Try something else

 

LOL. It has gone from criticizing every move(justified or not) to actively searching for things he might not be doing or not doing well, all while ignoring his league leading passing efficiency and aggressiveness.

 

If you guys are saying Tua reads the field presnap then being able to audible out and into something else is pretty basic. He doesn't need 4 years in the league to figure that out. Hell, Skylar would audible out of plays more often.

 

The guy was a legit MVP in his first year in the system, let’s we how he evolves in his 2nd year in the same system..

 

Please provide evidence of this. Also, show that the audibles were the correct call. While you're at it, provide evidence that Tua is missing proper audibles.

It is very easy to make unsubstantiated claims. Much harder to substantiate the claims.

 

BTW, you are actually asking why the QB didn't more often audible out of plays that led to him being the most efficient QB in the league..... seriously?

 

I'm going to start answering questions using exactly the same about of evidence provided in the criticisms:

"Tua called audibles the exactly correct number of times. Every audible and every non-audible were the correct calls."

 

This is a fair opinion, especially the injury concerns. For me, it depends on whether the injuries are avoidable or typical. The head injuries last season seemed avoidable and atypical. If they happen again, he is just not built for football.

I don't quite agree that he looked the same against the Pats. 270 yards, 70% completions, and a 104 rating is nothing to sneeze at in the first game in a complicated offense. Also, the run against the Ravens, started on the first drive of the 2nd half. They had only one punt in the second half. His game against the Bills was excellent as well. His first three games in a new offense produced passer ratings of 104, 124.1, and 123.8. Completions percentages of 70%, 72%, and 72%.

At least we have some reason for optimism on offense. It has been a very very long time for that.

 

How exactly were they atypical? The small shove he took in the buffallo game, and the drag down sack/hit he took in the cincy and GB games were all pretty standard hits that a QB should be able to take during the course of a season. They were not monstrous hits, the only reason he was knocked out by them is he is fragile and does not know how to fall correctly to minimise damage.

 

You have an incredible imagination. What's next how many times Tua blinks before the snap?

 

OR…

Tua’s pre-snap read of the defense already tells him who is going to be where and uses his eyes to ensure defenders are going where he wants them to, leading to “x” receiver being open.

Too many times with you, there’s always a “yea, but…” when it comes to Tua. And it makes it very difficult to take anything you bring up seriously.

 

You need to go back and re-watch the tackles on Tua during the Cincinnati and Green Bay games…especially the Bengals game.

 

I've watched them numerous times, they were not major hits or anything illegal. All pretty standard hits that other QBs take all the time without getting knocked out or missing games because of it. Tua is just fragile and injury prone. If you cant even admit that then you are just being biased.