Tua is not the Problem

I noticed that the same thing was not said about Sherfield. All players are going to hype the team they are going to.... yet, what did we see here? Sherfield spoke the gospel.

 

There is no reason for Sherfield to speak anyway other than honestly about Tua, since he is no longer with the Team. Yes his praise of allen is hype and he left out Allens bad qualities, but what he said about Tua is probably his unbiased opinion.

You have to understand peoples motivations and biases when they say something.

 

His comments about the timing offense was immediately interpreted as a negative about Tua rather than a simple statement about the offensive system and how that affected the WR's responsibilities. The comment that "I know that is still kind of the same thing (timing offense) here with Buffalo as well too" was COMPLETELY ignored.

His comment about playing for an elite QB was immediately jumped on as meaning that he didn't think Tua was elite.

Statements were twisted around and treated as Gospel.

 

Another troll job,

The inability you have to read people and situations is spectacular..

 

Imo this thread is becoming a waste of time and regurgitation of the same people rehashing and dismissing truths and facts.

You take a very honest interview from our coach and you dismiss it as coaches speak as disingenuous and a lie

**** off


I’m hoping a mod will come in and shut it down.

And if it continues somewhere else just put them on ignore.

Once they’re on ignore they won’t be able to see threads that have been started by those who put them there.

 

Projecting much??

 

That's right mods. Let's shut down all dissenting opinions. Dolphins rule, Tua is the next drew brees, we are going to the super bowl baby, **** yes!

 

No, it was interpreted just like he said it. Tua thows to a spot, regardless of whether the reciever is open or not. That's what some of us had been saying for a while and getting attacked for it by Tuanon.

 

Isn't throwing a ball to multiple spots a basic description of any NFL offense?

I don't think teams are playing sand lot everytime they break the huddle.

 

How are all of those tools that Tua doesn't have working for Zach Wilson?

 

DJ has clearly forgotten why this site was started, and he's acting exactly like the people that caused us to come and start this new site.

Sad, really. DJ, you and I used to have some really good convos.

 

Perhaps another way to view the quote is that Sherfield isn’t good at reliably running precise routes and he’d prefer a QB who is a bit more sandlot. Kind of like how Roethlisberger would adjust to whatever route Mike Wallace happened to run but Tannehill would throw to where the play was designed to be run to, which lead to a whole lot of angst in the old Tannehill threads.

 

He is not accurate about what Sherfield said at all.

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/trent-sherfield-signing-here-was-a-no-brainer

He was asked what was going to be different for him as a receiver in the Bills offense vs Miami (3:20)

"Yeah I know one thing for certain that I know is going to be different is the timing. Miami was all timing. You had to be in the right spot at the right time, and quarterback was dropping back, and he was letting the ball go, no mater if you was there or if you weren't. It's all just timing and trust."

That's what is being twisted... It's pretty absurd.

 

Despite video evidence from many credible and hall of fame sources, it was evident that Tua does not receive the snap on every play and throw to a predetermined spot "no matter what", "regardless" or whatever other word people wanted to use.

We still have people on here that want to believe otherwise just to push a narrative (aka troll). Despite all evidence, it's their visually right in front of your face from credentialed, hall of fame sources, on video, broken down frame by frame.

I applaud hitman8, who isn't a Tua fan I would say, being one of the cooler heads and calling it like he sees it, he doesn't think Tua will be an elite quarterback over the long haul, fine. He doesn't resort to calling the player "dumb", "weakling" or "lil guy" and I respect that. He states his opinion and doesn't twist his words into a pretzel and try to make like he's smarter than everyone else when called out on it. I truly believe he's a fan and wants Tua to succeed, even if he's on the fence.

 

So, in your opinion, the mark of a good timing offense QB is that he's throwing to a spot, regardless of where the receiver is?

Just so I'm understanding you. Please explain where the twisting is?

 

Never stated my opinion about a good timing offense, that is bordering on a straw man. What I said was that Hitman is inaccurate about Sherfields quote.

"No, it was interpreted just like he said it. Tua thows to a spot, regardless of whether the reciever is open or not. That's what some of us had been saying for a while and getting attacked for it by Tuanon."

That is the the claim he made about Sherfields statement. Sherfield, firstly is talking about Miami's offence regardless of who was the QB. Secondly the bolded is fabricated, was never said. Sherfield said the reciever had to be at the "right spot at the right time". How can anyone reasonably think the right spot would be to the covered WR? Here is my opinion about a good timing offense. Presuming the play call is good, If the QB does his job correctly, (reads, manipulation, throw, and so forth) he will be throwing the ball to a location and time that if all of the WRs do their jobs correctly (reads, route adjustments, and so forth) will have an open WR there to catch it. Everyone has to be on time. Everyone has to make the same reads. One wrong route run can put a defender in a place that the QB isn't anticipating, or have the WR in a place that the QB isn't anticipating. Doing this quickly and correctly is incredibly hard for everyone envolved.

 

I put trolls on ignore. I have not ignored Hitman.

 

The word "regardless" has been added to Sherfield's quote numerous times. He never used that word. Regardless is a dangerous word and is egregiously being added to fit certain narratives.

 

So, you don't like DJ arguing with your opinion and your comeback is "go back to Club"? and you're glad you canceled your club subscription? more like you weren't welcome there anymore. i've had some pretty big disagreements with DJ over the years, but he adds a lot more value to the forums than you do.

 

Actually I've reached out to DJ through PM, and we are cool. DJ and I were on different sides of the Tannehill debate, but we still had a good relationship, and frequently chatted through private messages. My problem last with DJ was that he came storming into the mains, without having posted in over a year in the mains, and just started swinging at me, as if we weren't cool and as if he didn't know me.

 

Also maybe try not attacking posters.

This site is devolving into an echo chamber.

 

Ladies and gentleman the west coast offense

 

IMO, there were three misunderstandings about the Sherfield statement:

1. That the QB is throwing it "regardless" of where the receiver is. The statement was "whether you are THERE (meaning the spot) or not.". What is left out is - that is the only way you can run a timing based offense. The QB has to throw with anticipation. When you do that, there is a chance that the receiver doesn't make it to the spot on time. Both the spot and the timing need to be right. The receiver can't run the route at 11 yards on one play and 12 yards on the next play. That is where the "timing and trust" come in.

2. That the "spot" is determined before the snap. This is simply not true. It is based on the misquote of "regardless of where the receiver is".

3. That this is some unusual offense meant to hide Tua's weaknesses. Also not true. The gospel speaking Sherfield said as much in the very next sentence - "I know that is still kind of the same thing here with Buffalo as well too". He flat out states that Buffalo's passing offense is also based on timing and trust.

 

Actually it is two echo chambers

 

The issue is that the phrase "regardless of where the receiver is" is too broad. It is denying that the QB is reading the receiver and the defense and making decisions on the fly. For example, if the receiver is jammed at the line, the QB is not throwing to that spot. If the coverage takes the intended spot away, the QB is not throwing to that spot. There are examples in the videos I linked that show Tua preparing to throw to a spot, has the spot taken away by the defender, and then throws to the next spot in the progression, sometimes to the same receiver.

The mark of a good timing offense is the receivers and the QB being on the same page with timing and position. All the routes are timed according to where they are in the read progression. Read #1 is earlier than Read #2 which is earlier than Read #3 and so on. The QB needs to make the reads and throws ON TIME with very precise timing. The windows (aka spots) to throw in do not stay open long. The receivers need to be equally on time with very precise route running. Finally, the QB needs to throw with anticipation and accuracy.

 

I treat others as I see them treat others. You attacked DJ, I attacked you. you don't like it? then don't attack DJ.

 

if that's the case, then no more issues from me.

 

Well, I certainly don't try to portray those who view Tua differently from me as ignorant or uneducated about football. That's the echo chamber I'm taking about. An elitist mentality that if you disagree, you are a moron and "don't bring value" to the site.

Listen I'm ALL ABOUT debate and discussion. It's part of what makes sports enjoyable to follow. It's natural to disagree on players. People's fanhood and mental abilities shouldn't be demeaned because they disagree.

If you feel I have been doing those things, or if I have done them at times, accept my apologies.

 

Yeah I wouldn't have called DJ out like that but for the fact that I was like, WTF DJ you know me better than that!

 

Now this is a post I can get behind. It was well put and made a cogent, logical counterpoint to how I first perceived Shurfield's comment.

Thanks

 

Appreciate watching my back like that.
Like Res said we talked it out, I may not of posted but I read every post in that Tua thread and it felt to me that the folks against Tua were not hearing anything besides themselves, and it spiraled

I mean its totally fine to not believe in a player as long as you can convey that respectfully all good, imo that was not even close to happening

I was out very early in tannehill and that sure as hell wasnt popular at the time but I tried to just relay my thoughts while listening and acknowledging

I used to say I know he’s tough and he can win some regular season games but I think there are fatal flaws to his game that can’t be fixed.

With Tua I acknowledged early that he needs a full base platform to set his feet to get velocity on the ball.. He doesn’t have different arm slots for which he can throw.. He doesn’t take off and run when he should

But I can also see the elite traits that make him unique, those traits overpower the rest

 

I always argued for Tannehill - that he could be a top 10-12 QB, but he would need a running game and good Oline - which is what he got early on in TN. that was never in cards for us in Miami unfortunately. Tua needed the right coach/scheme. Greg Cosell said that before we drafted him. Agree that Tua's ceiling is much higher - but we still need to fix the RT and a TE that can be at least an average blocker.

 

I know I can get over the top when the debates go round and round too much. I apologize for that. I need to state my case once or twice and if we still don't agree, I need to just say "let's agree to disagree".

 

This is cool, Tuanonners:


https://m.youtube.com/shorts/qshC6VSMHhA

 

"He's inventing football."

What?

 

He’s playing QUARTERBACK!

 

I take it to mean that he’s playing QB in a manner that the coach hasn’t seen before.
The full quote from some months back noted things like Tua using footwork, eye movement and peripheral vision to manipulate defenders into taking poor options. Not that these are new things, but that Tua is doing them at a higher level than this coach has previously seen.

 

Obviously hyperbole but the coach was just making a point and I think that is the way he talks.