Calling it early Miami 3rd place in AFC east miss playoffs

You think trading back 3 spots and not wasting money on FA's that rarely pay out is going to damn this team?

You also don't think one of the youngest teams in the NFL aren't going to improve next year?

Were you excited when we opened up the vault for Byron Jones to only have him perform in the bottom half of starting CB's?

 

"I hope I'm wrong" lol

Classic

 

They are likely to get the same guy at 6 that they would have taken at 3

 

I'd say we finished significantly behind Buffalo but significantly ahead of New England last year.

I don't see Buffalo getting worse unless Allen gets untracked and regresses, and I'm not sure we made up much ground. It's pretty much all going to depend on how well Tua plays, whether Jackson/Hunt/Iggy take significant steps, whether we draft impact players and if we can stay relatively healthy (I'm looking at you, Will Fuller).

That said, while New England bought a lot of talent, that doesn't always equal wins, and they still have no plan at QB. Unless Tua totally stinks we should be better.

 

Imo, winning in 2021 is less important than the offense taking steps to actually be reliable, consistent and productive. If the offense is subjectively better and looks good most weeks so that we feel really good about that side of the ball heading into 2022, but we only win 8 or 9 games, then im ok with things.

 

Man, 8-8 would be real tough. I don't see how we improve on offense yet regress in the W column by 2 games but consider it a successful season. I think that starts the hot seat tbh.

 

We drafted 11 players last year. I believe we still have eight on the team, which is a ridiculous hit rate. Of that group, several received starts or quality minutes. We also added Bowden, who played crucial minutes. None of those players benefited from a normal off-season and most, if not all, should have a jump between seasons with experience and more coaching. We also are getting Albert Wilson back. On top of that, we have five picks in the top 81.

I'd suggest that we don't need much more youth and adding "top FA" players would only push a good player off the roster. The best thing about youth is that it doesn't stick around for long. Develop what we have, add talent through the draft and let this team progress organically. This was always going to be a timely process and we're on track to be a competitive team for years, even with what some of you might see as a "meh" off-season.

I couldn't be more excited.

 

Because I feel very strongly that the 2020 team was actually a 6 win club that overachieved and got a bit lucky. So 8 or 9 wins is a step in the right direction if the team actually goes out and earns them clearly and cleanly.

 

Free agency isn't even over yet, I love that we didn't overspend for once. We have "won" free agency plenty of times and it worked out terribly.

Unless Sewell is who we are targeting, we are likely getting the same player we would've wanted at 3.

 

Color me surprised, shocked even, that we didn't go crazy in FA...and I love it. Maybe they're finally learning. Blowing the wad in FA NEVER pans out...not just for Miami, but I can't remember any team that went wild in FA and it actually resulted in a SB (with the possible, maybe exception of the Bucs this year...but that's a special, unique situation).

And we're going YOUNG as hell on this team. Another facet that has me excited. I'm so sick of building for the "NOW," just for the now AND future to both get shredded in the process.

8-8 is very possible. We only beat ONE team with a winning record in going 10-6...not a stellar year, and its probably a good thing we missed the playoffs. This team/coaching staff is still very green...and as long as key players show improvement, the future is glowingly bright...regardless of their 2021 record. You can't lose to Denver like they did, and almost lose to Vegas like they did, and be considered a quality, playoff team IMO.

Can the defense maintain its showing from 2020? That's a tough ask. They were top 3 in numerous key categories. Even if they slipped a few places in rankings in some of those areas, you're looking at 8-8, everything else being equal. Tougher sked this year as a 2nd place team as well...which means Baltimore again...Vegas again...and the whole of the AFC South (Tenn/Indy).

This should be the final "big" rebuilding year for the roster under this regime. There are a LOT less holes than there was going into 2019...the plan is materializing...and it's being crafted with shrewd management, tactical draft maneuvers, and player decisions compared to years past. We kinda don't know what to expect, because they've never done it this way since the glory years. I support Grier/Flo 100%, until such time that they've had ample time to re-build this entire team (almost there), and it doesn't work...then, they'll have to go. If it DOES work...man...

 

Hey, everyone’s entitled to their wrong opinions. #FinsToTheShip

 

I think Wilson will be crazy good for the Jets. Tua better become the next Brees or we'll get left in the division.

 

I think Wilson is going to be a stud!
We have the third most talented Qb in the division right now.

 

If Tua doesn't develop into a stud QB, we'll be looking up at the Bills for the next ten years.

 

We’re working with a lot of very incomplete data this early.

But most of the teams success will rest on whether promising young talents like Tua, Wilkins, Jackson, Geisiki, Kindley, Hunt, Van Ginkel and Davis continue to be promising young talents or if they evolve into NFL stars this year.

Promise doesn’t win games. Production does. I think most of that group will take the next step.

 

It seems like the same suspects in this forum keep having a tantrum because we didn't win the Super Bowl since Bucs won it a couple months ago and now we're ranking a QB who has played against suspect competition in college ahead of Tua, who people just love to hate. Grow up some of you.

 

95% of them never even saw him play either.

 

He's not Tua, that's all that matters.

 

I could see that happen if Tua and our young players don’t improve and if we stink up the draft, as of now I don’t think those things are going to happen actually I’m pretty pumped and excited when it comes to the draft and next season, been a while.

 

1) I never said drink the Kool Aid.

2) We're the youngest team in the league, in fact we don't have a player under contract that is 30-years old or over.

3) Playing big in the free agency market rarely pays off, if anything it hinders a teams growth as money you can't spend on your young stars is tied up in free agents busts. I applaud our conservative approach.

4) Panicking will not catch us up to the Bills. And let's remember how many teams in the past looked like they were going to be beasts like the Niners and Eagles of recent memory, both looked like teams to deal with every year and right now they're nothing but that. It can happen too in Buffalo.

I've never seen so many Debbie Downers for our team than I've seen this year. I think it's from anxiety (Bills maybe?) more than reality.

 

It's called "Herbertitis".

 

There is absolutely zero logic in the statement you made. ANY COACH could be in the hot seat in two years...absolutely anyone.

I get that last season could have been a 1-season fluke...maybe the defense never plays at that level again. I also understand that Tua has a lot left to prove, as does the offensive line, the WR corp, and whoever we end up starting at RB. The vast majority of the offense is one massive question mark, but they were the past two seasons as well.

But if that same defense does show up in 2021, then I think that's 8+ wins right there alone. Our defense outscored our opponents in multiple games last year, that's absolutely insane to even think about. We won w/ Tua scoring 10 points, 13 points, 17 points...the offense was clearly below average yet we were still winning. So if the defense regresses a little bit and the offense grows a little, I still see a 10-win team on the field against most opponents.

We will still be behind teams like Buffalo, KC and Tampa....but who won't be? At least we can say that this team is still trending upward AND spending money/draft picks intelligently. Meanwhile, the Jets and Pats are in desperation mode overpaying and doing what we failed at for decades. We are CLEARLY the #2 team in the East until proven otherwise.

 

Most people here don't hate Tua. That's how people who defend him blindly like to put it because they don't have any real argument so they have to set up a straw man to knock down.
What most of the people who think we need another QB have said and what I am saying is that he's not the top-tier QB we hoped we were getting with the fifth overall pick and if we have a chance to upgrade over him we should. Because the other option is building up a top-tier team around a player whose ceiling is a good deal lower than we need it to be to compete in an AFC against Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Baker Mayfield and what look to be genuine top-tier QBs in Herbert and Burrow.

 

Call it what you want. the Tua takes are ****ing stupid by some of you like yours right now already writing him off as a low ceiling player, good God man, listen to yourselves.

 

I never believed he was a top tier QB before we drafted him and didn’t want to take him. Now that we have him, I want to remove any reasonable doubt by putting a good offense around him to see if he can substantially elevate his play.

 

Burrow and Herbert have two more wins than Tua.

Let's have Tua play a full season before we call him a low tier player.

And, let's have Burrow win more than two games before we call him a top tier player.

Herbertitis in full effect.

 

Tua had moments of top tier play, but people look north and see Allen and looks west and see Herbert and they all lose their senses, if the kid doesn't step up this year with the toys afforded him, a full offseason to get in shape, then yeah, Houston, we got a problem, but you don't panic and throw away the baby with the bathwater because you got unfair expectations. That is what perennial bad teams do and we're trying to break that mode.

 

I'd rather listen to myself for twelve hours than listen to you spew that nonsense for one more minute.

 

First of all, it has nothing to do with the wins. If Tua had played like Herbert and Burrow but the rest of the team played poorly and we won six games, I would be more sanguine about our situation at QB. The fact is, he played very conservatively and looked incapable of progressing the ball down the field against a good defense. Maybe that was because of his WRs. But when he was replaced by Fitz, somehow those WRs made catches.

 

Look, the bottom line on Tua is, we're stuck with him now. We had the chance to draft or trade for someone potentially better and the FO decided against it. So, I hope to hell they draft a couple great WRs and a couple excellent O linemen and see what the best we can expect from him is. It's too late to do anything about him this year, so we have to find out what we have. Maybe he'll surprise me.

 

Fair enough. But, you keep saying Tua isn't elite or hasn't shown he can be elite after nine starts.

Then you name Josh Allen who threw more interceptions than TD's in his first season. Baker Mayfield, who threw 20+ interceptions in his second season. Patrick Mahomes, who didn't play his first year and had teammates openly admit he didn't think he would be any good. Joe Burrow won two games and his stats are not overwhelmingly better than Tua, considering he threw the ball 120 more times. Justin Herbert had a great year, they asked him to do way more than Tua and probably had better players around him. Let's see how he follows it up before we call him top tier.

 

We've spent the last decade trying to build a true contender spending money on those "Big FAs" It hasn't worked out for us AT ALL!

Lets try this way for awhile. The best way is to get draft capital and draft well. If you have to have a down year to get better in the long run it's worth it. We fill more holes and spend less money by putting more faith in our drafting, that's what I wanna have faith in but I'm a little nervous based on Greir's last one.

 

Were you paying attention this off-season? QB's were flying from team to team at a record-setting pace. Watson is still up for grabs, Garappolo is probably going to be moved before the season starts, and the Dolphins haven't done a thing to try upgrading at QB. We are clearly not "stuck with Tua"...Grier and Flores are choosing Tua over several solid veterans.

But let's go with your line of thinking- let's say Tua sucks. He starts this year and it's a worst-case scenario...maybe we win 3 games and he's dead last in QBR. Or maybe he's just okay and we need a 3rd year to figure out if he's the guy or not. Well guess what, there aren't any QB's to draft next season that look like franchise guys...and what do you know, we gained and traded away a 1st rounder for next year. Yet we also kept our extra 2023 1st rounder...I wonder why? Maybe because the front office has thought this out from every possible angle and we're covered no matter what.

If Tua is awesome within the next two years, we win as a franchise and we're set for a decade.
If Tua is average the next two years, then we're drafting a QB in 2023 to compete against him.
If Tua plays horrible, gets hurt or we just don't like him anymore, we're drafting a QB in 2023.

It is plainly obvious from our actions this past week that the front office is being mega-smart about this. Even in your doom and gloom scenario, we will continue to build this team and bring in another bridge QB like Fitz next season if Tua doesn't fully get there in 2021. They've covered every possible base in the moves they've made and it bewilders me how some people can still be so crazy negative towards Tua.

In case you folks have missed it, Tua has been working hard non-stop this off-season to prove his doubters wrong. Meanwhile, Burrow is barely walking and Herbert is mastering his golf game. Even if we look at this as a "3-horse" race going into 2021, I like the odds that Tua produces the most wins out of the three next season because he has much more of a complete team behind him.

 

Stats don't tell everything in a rookie QB. To quote Bill Belichick, stats are for losers. QBs who are going to be great show something in even their rookie season, a gunslinger mentality, a fearlessness, and usually a big arm that they're not scared to use. I saw none of that from Tua.

 

Your thinking is mired in mediocrity. I don't want a "solid veteran." I want a top-tier QB who can carry a team. That's what we thought we were getting with the fifth overall pick. The only veteran QB who is in that category and might be available is Watson, and now he has too much baggage to bring in.

 

Here's how I break it down.

• Last year's team had four wins vs teams picking in the top five this April, and another vs a SF team that was completely devestated by injuries and hadn't had time to adjust when we faced them.
• 
  
• They had an amazing game plan that worked to perfection vs the Rams and created a lot of turnovers, but were otherwise outplayed in the game.
• 
  
• They started the game vs the Chargers with a blocked punt that lead to an easy TD, but otherwise played LA (then 2-7) pretty even in a fairly sloppy game.
• 
  
• They had the great comeback and won by the seat of their pants vs the Cardinals, and then the bizarre end to the game vs the Raiders.
• 
  
• And then they were losing to New England 7-9 after three quarters, and pulled out the win in the 4th quarter.

All in all, the Fins showed that they were well coached, played cleanly, made few mistakes, and maximized their opprotunities. That's all a great start. However, they did very little to convince me that they were actually a typical 10+ win NFL team in the process. The roster that finished last season needs a lot of work if they're going to be better than eight wins this coming year. We'll see how it goes, and I'll be hopeful. But I think that people really need to look deeper than the surface.