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Dolphins Draft Strategy - They Will Move Up... for a QB

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Jan 6, 2020.

  1. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Sone people do think that, but I think most of us just arent entirely sold on him.

    I'm not entirely sold on Burrow either. I think they both have major risks.

    I mean, I havent heard anyone say he isnt a great college QB. More just question how his abilities translate to the pro game or whether he will be injured constantly.
     
  2. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    The fact that it is this way across pretty much all sports is interesting to me. Makes you wonder if an owner would be financially best served just firing the entire scouting staff and going by crowdsource. :chuckle:
     
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  3. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Hell, Mitch Trubisky was actually rated higher than Patrick Mahomes if memories serves me correct.

    How did that work out?
     
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  4. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division

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    Absolutely not, my goal is to extend our draft capital over two drafts, kind of the opposite of what you're saying. I'm pick greedy, and the Fins need to be that. So...

    Somebody want to move up to 27? Good give us your 2021 1st and a 4th.

    Somebody want to move up to pick 39? Good give us your 2021 2nd and a conditional 4th (could become 3rd depending on where they end up picking I'm 2021)

    With our remaining 3 first day picks 1. Tua 2. OL 3 Bpa(OL, DE, LB, S)

    Then we see what holes we fill in free agency, come back in 2021 with still strong draft capital with two 1s and two 2s.

    Thus we can plug some holes this year, hopefully have a successful FA, come back in 2021 reevaluate and have a better idea where to put those 4 first day picks in the next draft. That would give us the best chance at FINALLY building a long term serious contender.

    Granted if we can't find teams to trade 2021 draft picks to us, then simply trade down this year or stay where we are.

    But my ultimate goal would be to get what we need out of this draft and extending our draft capital into the next one.

    In a nutshell that gives us 3 first day picks to spend in 2020 and 4 first day picks to spend in 2021.. when we have a better idea where we need to put those 2021 picks.
     
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  5. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Your notion of trading draft picks to stock pile for future drafts intrigues me and is something I have wondered if we might do. The Dolphins have been a hot mess for years and it's not going to get fixed overnight....nor in one draft.
     
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  6. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I agree, trading back is the smarter move whenever possible since we're likely taking BPA regardless outside the first two picks (who I also believe will be Tua and an offensive lineman). I think we could just as easily take Tua at #7 or #10 though so if a trade opens for either of our earlier picks, I would personally take them in a heartbeat if it means an extra 1st next season.
     
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  7. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    You want to bet that the Chargers, Jags and Panthers all pass on a franchise level QB if his medicals are looking good? I don't. Unless there is a setback before the draft, there is no way that happens.
     
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  8. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Tua wont be there at 7 unless the medicals pre-draft show a big problem. Someone will trade up with Detroit and get him, most likely. I don't agree with that, I think his injury is too big a risk, but I think a lot of teams are willing to take the risk.
     
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  9. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There's ZERO change the bengals trade #1/Burrow. I'm not even sure why it's suggested in the OP here. There's no way they're that stupid.

    As for us.. I'd rather stay put at our spot. We shipped out alot of talent to accumulate those picks, and we need everyone of them to start filling holes.

    I dont buy that Detroit will look to trade down either. I wouldn't at all be surprised they stay put and draft themselves a QB. Stafford is done. If the coach and GM want to try and save their jobs a fresh new QB is one way to do that. Ownership won't stop them. She's insane as it is. If they were smart they'd have fired the GM and Patricia, started over and drafted a QB. They could still take one now, and just find a new HC next year if they wanted. I just dont see them passing up an opportunity to replace Stafford. His health is deteriorating, his wife has health issues too, and quite frankly he hasn't got it done there. It's time to move on.
     
  10. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I honestly can't believe that anybody is seriously advocating moving up to draft a banged up, undersized QB. We're a 5 win team, last in our division. Let's get a couple of guys on base first before swinging for the fences. IF Tua was completely healthy he would, at best, be the third rated QB on the horizon behind Burrow and Lawrence and, that's just the guys on the shiny teams. Is it wise to spend valuable draft capital to move up to draft an "also ran"? I sure hope Ross and the team are giving this some careful thought and not just going with the plan from last September.
     
  11. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Tua is a cross between Steve Young and Drew Brees.
     
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  12. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Maybe but it could easily be Steve Young on the Buckaneers and Brees on the Chargers if you don't build the rest of the team right.
     
  13. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Sure, but no one is saying get Tua and boom, championship.

    QB is the most important, and if you have a shot at a Steve Young Drew Brees hybrid...well for god's sake....go get that player!
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
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  14. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Wouldn't that be John Elway? :wink2:
     
  15. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Proper strategy is not losing
     
  16. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not correct
     
  17. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Although Stafford was having his best statistical year before the injury and he is owed a lot of salary this year
     
  18. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    That is fair enough.

    In the end I dont care what we do, within the rules, if we end up winning.

    That said, I dont really think winning this past year will help much long term. Most of the roster will be replaced and as long as we competed well fans would have been happy.

    I'm not saying losebon purpose btw necessarily but I probably wouldnt have signed Fitz as much as I love him.

    I'd have given Rosen the chance to either fail or succeed. I dont think Rosen is in Flores plans so I dont think his failure would have been a negative if it happened. For the team longterm I mean.
     
  19. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Well it was a question, not a statement...and I got the answer days ago. Thanks.
     
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  20. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    What am I missing ? How was his career not cut short from a hip injury ?
     
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  21. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Oh god no
     
  22. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Well I guess it was the fact that Bo popped it back in and didn't get treatment for a day or two that caused the hip to not heal properly. So I guess it wasn't the hip injury necessarily, it was the fact that the treatment happened too late.
     
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  23. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Here's a detailed look at this sort of injury, the differences between Bo and Tua, and possibilities down the road:

    https://www.al.com/alabamafootball/...jackson-connection-and-long-term-outlook.html

    It's worth a full read but here are a few highlights:

    "
    Instant fear surrounded the connection between Tagovailoa's injury and the one that ended Bo Jackson's pro football career.

    Yes, Jackson dislocated his hip being tackled in a 1991 game for the Oakland Raiders. And he had the same fracture as Jackson.

    So, what made Jackson's injury so life-changing? The multi-sport star suffered from Avascular necrosis or AVN in the aftermath of his dislocation and fracture.

    "What can happen with the dislocation is that blood vessels will either tear or they'll be placed on stretch for so long that the bone itself will lose its blood supply and that will cause death of the bone," Banffy said. "If you get it reduced right away, the idea is that will minimize the risk. But this is still something that you have to watch and it might not even present itself for a couple of months, similar to the way it did with Bo Jackson."

    The statement released by Alabama's team orthopedist Saturday night stated the hip was reduced at the stadium before being transported to St. Vincent's in Birmingham. Reducing a hip means putting it back in socket.

    This issue will be monitored in the coming months via MRIs.

    With Jackson's case, he developed premature arthritis, which led to a full hip replacement and the end of his NFL career."

    ...


    "How is it treated?

    The good news is sports medicine has advanced in the 28 years since Jackson's injury and this typically doesn't require surgery.

    That isn’t the case with Tagovailoa, however. The school announced Sunday evening that Tagovailoa would be flown to Houston for surgery on Monday.

    “For the past 24 hours our medical team has consulted with multiple orthopedic experts across the country, who specialize in hip injuries and surgeries,” Alabama’s team orthopedist Dr. Lyle Cain said in a statement released by the school. "Based on that research, Tua is being flown to Houston tonight to be evaluated and is scheduled to have hip surgery Monday. As previously stated, we anticipate a full recovery. The main focus has been, and will remain, on Tua, his family, and making sure we are providing them the best medical care possible.”"

    ...

    "Recovery time, NFL draft outlook

    At minimum, this could heal in three months, Banffy said. Six months is more likely, however.

    "I think the initial treatment will be conservative treatment," Banffy said. "Hip is back in the socket. Hip is stable. Just have to get him to heal up."

    The brief statement from team doctor Lyle Cain on Saturday night included some information about the next steps.

    “He is undergoing further testing to determine the best course of treatment,” Cain said. "He is expected to make a full recovery but will miss the remainder of the season.”

    Monitoring the potential for AVN will be a big part of this process too."


    ...


    "This is a serious injury that must be monitored for the next few months. There isn't a medical connection to his high-ankle sprain outside of the diminished speed to evade defenders.

    And though recovery time should have him ready to play football next fall, long-term effects are likely.

    "It's likely he won't have the same speed and mobility that we're used to seeing in him," Banffy said. "That's probably the most predictable long-term outcome."

    But for now, it's about resting and healing for the Alabama quarterback whose 87 passing touchdowns broke the program's career record.

    "The main points are worry about the AVN, you have to worry about the stability of the socket -- most of the time it's non-operative," Banffy said. "And ultimately, long-term you have to worry about arthritis and that kind of stuff.""
     
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  24. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    You really don’t think a combination of Steve Young and Drew Brees adequately describes Elway?
     
  25. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I dont like that comparison because Steve Young and Drew Brees are/were leagues better at QB than Elway ever was.
     
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  26. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    WHAT?????????

    You must’ve never seen Elway play and basing your statement on numbers in some chart.

    In his prime, I’d take Elway over ANY quarterback in the league today...ANY!!!!
     
  27. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    He was incredibly inaccurate and scattershot through his entire career. No thanks. Hes probably the most overrated QB of all time by a landslide.

    Here is a fairly good article that discusses how he wasnt even one of the best of his era let alone all time.

    https://www.sportsblog.com/sportatistics/overrated-the-real-john-elway-career/
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
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  28. Fishhead

    Fishhead Well-Known Member

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    [QUOTE="Galant, post: 3242205, member:]

    "It's likely he won't have the same speed and mobility that we're used to seeing in him," Banffy said. "That's probably the most predictable long-term outcome."

    "[/QUOTE]

    This is the key piece of information in the entire situation, imo. If it holds true, then the risk is too high, especially at #5. To compound the difficulty of the situation, how true it is won’t fully be known until well after the draft.
     
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  29. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    Well, it still stemmed from the hip injury no matter how you slice it.
     
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  30. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

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    Has Tua proven to be injury prone?!....

    Im asking because I dont watch much college, but as far as Ive seen some youtube highlights of Tua, he does impress me. As a Titans fan I absolutely hate pineapple headed QBs because of Mariota never living to his college potenial in the pros BUT... Tua seems like the real deal.
     
  31. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Inaccurate? You never saw him play, did you? John Elway as the epitome of clutch quarterbacks.
     
  32. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    He had both ankles operated on while in college.
     
  33. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    And his hips... pretty sure hes going to get hit harder in the NFL
     
  34. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    He is a left handed Mariota.... they went to the same high school, same high school coach, the same college football offensive system except Mariota had less talent in Oregon than Alabama (4 future first round pick receivers in Smith, Waddle, Ruggs and Jeudy.. and najee harris)..

    mariota’s last season in oregon is the same as tua’s and mariota had much less talent
     
  35. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    To avoid reiterating a ton of stuff if you want to know more details on Tua, his injuries etc. or other 2019 college QB's, go to the NFL Draft Forum and the 2019 QB's thread. Lots of info was posted there covering it.
     
  36. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Clutch?

    In 13 of his 22 playoff appearances he threw more INT than TD's

    Accurate?

    Career completion % below 60%

    His playoff numbers are pretty horrible all around as well. I'm not trying to change your mind, I'm just saying it's a bad comparison to two of the most accurate and intelligent QB to ever play the game.

    I have watched him play btw so stop using that as some sort of way to invalidate other peoples opinions please.
     
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  37. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    That doesn't mean Tua is going to be a bad QB. Aaron Rodgers and Kyle Boller had the same coach too....Patrick Mahomes came from a school that had a very friendly quarterback system in place. You can't be serious with this! Just because they had the same high school coach means we shouldn't draft him? Ok.
     
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  38. Striking

    Striking Junior Member

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    I'd say that most players with three surgeries in two years would be a significant concern compared to a player with none. In these predraft player scripted performances, it will be possible for an agent to hide physical shortcomings.
     
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  39. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Five Super Bowl appearances
    Two Super Bowl Championships
    Super Bowl XXIII MVP
    Only QB to rush for a TD in 4 SB
    Nine time Pro Bowl selection
    Highest winning percentage QB at time of retirement
    6th All Time passing yards
    Only player in NFL history to throw over 3000 yards and rush over 200 yards in 7 straight seasons
    35 career comeback wins in the 4th quarter
    4th all time in winning games


    Yea, Elway sucked :pity:
     
  40. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    While Elway was a good QB, he is vastly overrated. Much like Troy Aikman.
     

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