****The Official 2016-2017 NBA Thread****

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by Section126, Jul 1, 2016.

  1. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Gordon Hayward's wife playing the social media game again

    Posted pictures from Fathers Day trip to the beach. On and on about how much the kids LOVE the beach
     
  2. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He's getting $24 million to play on that crappy team. Good for him. I'd rather make $24 million than chase a 4th ring. He's got everything. Another $24 million to play basketball and put up a lot of shots sounds like fun to me. Odds are Butler and Rondo will be goners.
     
  3. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    He will get bought out... theyre not gonna keep him for long... what for... might as well give those minutes to a developmental guy.
     
  4. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Playing devil's advocate here, is it possible that her kids do actually love the beach? I mean, that would be good news too.
     
  5. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If Ntilikina is there, he'd be the easy choice, IMO. He has as much upside as any guard in this draft. I don't think he gets past the Mavs, though. Supposedly they, along with the Knicks have done a TON of work on him.





    After him, I'd rank those remaining guys in order of my preference:
    1. Anunoby
    2. Giles
    3. Leaf
    4. Collins
    5. Jackson
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2017
  6. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    EDIT: He's also wearing red and black in the photo

     
  7. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He's a very good fit in Boston. They have a ton of cap space. He's a better player then Gordon Hayward. Taking contracts back has never been an issue for NY as its probably more what Boston is giving in terms of picks that the NYK are actually concerned with. He can fit what Boston needs which is a stretch 4 or 3 depending on the lineup/opponent. That team needs, in the worst way, 2 good scorers. Melo and Hayward or PG together would be a great offseason for them.

    You think my value of him is way off but Melo is tremendously valued around the league because the one dimension he's great at, scoring, is the most in demand. There's less then a handful of players as versatile a scorer as Anthony with few weaknesses in terms of where he can shoot from consistently. He's a very capable rebounder and improved passer as well. Defense we know can be an issue but it's not as if he can't play D, it's more a consistency thing. Having followed Anthony his whole career, I've always said that's probably from having to carry so much of the offense because I've seen him play excellent defense on some nights and just lazier on others.

    I'm quite sure that those people hoping for a buyout are just dreaming.
     
  8. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    :chuckle: And the youngest is wearing purple!! He must be Phoenix bound!
     
  9. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Not to mention, basketball minds know Melo is an unselfish player when surrounded by talent. He would be huge addition to a handful of competitive teams.
     
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  10. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm quite sure Frank will be the Knicks pick at 8 if he's there. They've been doing work on him since at least January when the Knicks sent people over there to go see him play. He's stated he wants to be in Ny so Fords report is baloney that he wants to be in Dallas.

    http://nypost.com/2017/06/18/the-pick-with-everything-knicks-want-they-just-need-to-get-him/
     
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  11. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Exactly. His work on Team USA is well documented. And whether people realize it or not, elite players in the league like him and have been wanting to play with him. It just never fully came to fruition.
     
  12. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It depends on which offseason. Last year there were a lot of big free agents. This year, less so. So you get a busy offseason with trades as teams find ways to get better.
     
  13. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Wait, you were looking at what the kids were wearing? Didn't even notice there was a beach there :chuckle:
     
  14. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    His wife has great....hair.
     
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  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I will tell you that personally I really like these three:

    SG Donovan Mitchell: He gets dinged for his shooting but if you really watch him, he's a shooter by nature and trade. I'm positive he's one of those guys who will get in the gym and knock down 70-80 out of 100 three pointers. He's an 81% free throw shooter. His shot is not in any way rough or undeveloped. It is very quick, very structurally sound. His percentages are low because first off, over half of his shots were three pointers. That's going to drag down anyone's percentage. Second, at 7 three point attempts per game, there's obviously a usage factor dragging down his efficiency. He was very efficient (DraftXpress 90th percentile) in unguarded catch-and-shoot situations. Ridiculous wing span for a combo guard, helps him be all kinds of nifty on the penetration and finish at the rim. Great thickness and NBA body. When I watched his individual games I came to appreciate how smart he was and how good he was at always making the right basketball play. That is something the Heat value. Extremely well spoken. Love to hear him talk about how playing PG in the NBA begins with defense and the ability to defend guys like John Wall. Hell of a defender with the perfect mentality that way. The thing I consider "special" for him are his combination of wing span, speed, and hands for the steal. He had the fastest 3/4 court run at the Combine. He's first in steals for DraftXpress. He has a 6'10" wing span at a barefoot 6'2" height. Among his weaknesses is that he falls in love with settling for a tough pull away jumper at times, which can be maddening when he doesn't make them. He's got good handles, but not great handles. You see him flub the ball every now and then. And when you get down to it he's 6'3" with shoes on, and that limits him both in penetrating the paint and in perhaps not being able to guard really lengthy wing players. If that means he's a point guard, he'll have to learn to run the offense, which I'm not that worried about but it would be a process.

    Key Heat Factors: NBA-ready Body (yes), Special Trait (yes), Compelling Frame (yes), Basketball IQ (yes), Defense (yes)

    PF Lauri Markkanen: I think this is a unique specimen when you combine his frame, his thickness and strength, ball handling, scoring ability, and that sweet, sweet shot of his. I don't think he's just a big that can shoot. He's a shooter, period. When you watch a bunch of these videos you come across these good players all facing one another. Markkanen always stands out as a guy the other players can't handle. His shot is very versatile. The thing that is special about him is easy to see: he's a sniper that happens to be the size of Hassan Whiteside. I think his ability to put the ball on the floor is something that surprised me. I watch him and you can kind of imagine immediately how he gets on the floor for the Heat and what he does for them spacing-wise. He really does have the ability to drive to the basket from the perimeter as a wing player, which is salty on a seven foot shooter. But his defense is not near Heat standards. They'd have to work their magic like they have so many other guys not known for good defense. He's also not a particularly good rebounder for a seven footer.

    Key Heat Factors: NBA-ready Body (yes), Special Trait (yes), Compelling Frame (yes), Basketball IQ (yes), Defense (no)

    PG Frank Ntilikina: I think if the Heat are interested in Donovan Mitchell then they have to be pretty interested in Frank Ntilikina as well. This is an 18 year old kid that went out and banged around in Europe with a bunch of grown men and unlike Terrance Ferguson in Australia, I thought Frank actually looked really good. Very high basketball IQ and another good all-around kid with a great work ethic, like Mitchell and Markkanen. What is so unique about Frank is that wing span of his. His arms are Kevin Durant-like. He's 6'6" with shoes on and has a 7'0" wing span. Those arms really dominate the opposition on offense and defense, and he does have quick and coordinated hands to make good on them. Another great defender. What I think is surprising is that even though he comes off twig-like in his build (only 190 lbs), he bodied up on these grown men in Europe and looked alright at it. His frame is BIG. Yet he's got the speed and agility of a point guard. His shot is a little on the slow side, but sound. He shot a great percentage in Europe as an 18 year old. Nice, low handle, but loose, and steals will be his enemy until he tightens that up and learns not to get lax on his passes. Good burst of speed to the basket, but he's not quite the compact, quick gear change guy that Donovan Mitchell is when it comes to creating. He's young and will need development.

    Key Heat Factors: NBA-ready Body (no), Special Trait (yes), Compelling Frame (yes), Basketball IQ (yes), Defense (yes)


    Some other considerations...

    I love C Zach Collins of Gonzaga. I'd take him and I think he fits all of the key factors the Heat will look for. It's just hard for me to see the fit with Whiteside here long term, but a good player is a good player.

    For a wing player, SF Justin Jackson of UNC is just not very sexy. He's got great length but looks stiff as a board and not all that fast. Average handle. The only thing that could be unique about him would be his shot, if it weren't so streaky. His shot looks funky to me, too. I just can't shake that even if I'm told it's OK. I would need to be blown away with statistically consistent and significant efficiency to believe his shot is for real, and I don't know that we've reached that. Plays some defense, have to hand him credit for trying hard and developing an all-around game. Has an NBA ready body, and a good basketball IQ. He's just not special. Technically this means he's only missing one key factor when it comes to his fit with the Heat, and so he might be up there with Markkanen or Ntilikina for Miami.

    The thing I worry about with PF John Collins of Wake Forest is his basketball IQ. I think it's really questionable, and it makes his defense questionable. The dude can score, and he's a compelling athlete. But he struggles defensively, especially pick and roll defense which is important for what the Heat would want of him, and it may be because he's a bit dull.

    I try and like PG Luke Kennard of Duke and I think he's a good player but the bottom line is his frame and athleticism bothers me. Short arms, and it shows up in his game, especially defensively where he's pretty pedestrian. To me that hands him a "no" on two of the key Heat factors. Sweet shot, and a high basketball IQ, though.

    I have had a love affair with SF OG Anunoby of Indiana but in the end, there may be just too many things working against him. What is so compelling about him is that he's got a true LeBron-like man's body, strength, and athletic skill set, to go along with his dogged defense and potential to be able to defend all five positions. That's really something. But I'm not sure about his basketball IQ. He has no instincts for creating on offense, and isn't good with his off-ball movement. His shot is low and slow, and even though he is capable of getting on hot streaks that make his stats look efficient for a time, I'm not sure I buy the stats based on what I see of the shot on tape. He's sort of the anti-Donovan Mitchell that way. Offensively he will be a scorer by virtue of his being a high flyer. That could work until he's developed more. He's young enough to develop. But with a torn ACL that happened in January, that development will be slowed. This is probably what tips it for me. There's too much going against him.

    I think that PF TJ Leaf of UCLA is a good player, but is there really anything that's unique about him? He's another under-developed body that would have to take a lot of time in the weight room. Strictly speaking I might rather have PF Ivan Rabb of Cal over Leaf, if I'm going to go for a guy that needs physical development, because with Rabb I know he's got a really strong basketball IQ. I think PF Harry Giles of Duke is another guy I would have to question in terms of his being ready to go for the Heat. He's not necessarily as physically under-developed, and I like his defense. But I don't see anything unique about him (yet) and I'm not sure how versatile he is. I think that PF Semi Ojeleye of SMU is an intriguing player but when you look at his game, I don't think he's ever going to cut it as a real wing player, and that makes him more of an undersized but explosive power forward type. He's not structurally unique for that kind of player. C Justin Patton of Creighton is a bit of a mystery to me. He looks very unique and in fact reminds me a lot of Hassan Whiteside. I don't know if he's a great pick for Miami at 14, though.
     
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  16. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Well that's a hell of a lot better than when the twitter rumors were out that she doesn't like the idea of her man being on South Beach.
     
  17. BevoPhin

    BevoPhin Well-Known Member

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    Think he was talkin bout Gordon.
     
  18. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Nope :lol:
     
  19. BevoPhin

    BevoPhin Well-Known Member

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    Every kid I've ever met loves the beach.

    Florida beaches>Massachusetts.
     
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  20. BevoPhin

    BevoPhin Well-Known Member

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    He looks lanky as ****
     
  21. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Boston doesn't have the cap space you think they do. This is from Albert Nahmad (the best in the business when it comes to the NBA cap)

    http://heathoops.com/2017/06/what-could-be-next-for-the-celtics-after-trading-their-no-1-pick/

    So if they traded the #3 pick for Melo, it seems like they'd have around $37M. After taking on Melo's $26.2M, that would leave them with less than $11M. That's not enough for Hayward, PG, Blake Griffin, or Butler. So unless they did some incredible cap gymnastics, Melo would be the only major addition they could make.

    As for his value, I still don't see how he's worth even close to the #3 pick in a draft this good, and I believe that everyone outside of Knicks nation feels the same way. I think Melo has been somewhat underrated as a player because of how bad the Knicks have been, but he's a declining player at 33. He is not enough to get Boston over the hump, and they'd have to pay him almost $30M in 2018-2019. We know that the Celtics can get Paul George for the #3 pick (they've told the Lakers they'd made the deal if they gave up #2), so why would you take a lesser, older player?
     
  22. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree with you on most of those. A few quick points...

    1. Mitchell is a PG at 6'2.5", not sure if that's a typo.
    2. One of the big criticisms of Ntilikina is that he is slower then many PGs. The guy he kind of reminds me of is an in his prime Paul Pierce or Ginobli... More crafty then quick on offense...not necessarily a bad thing.
    3. The more I watch Kennard, the more he screams Kyle Korver type 3 point specialist.
    4. Giles hasn't even been on the floor enough to really watch much but his game to me at least is better suited for the NBA. I think he can be a good pro, health provided.
     
  23. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You're not going to like Harry Giles by watching his college film. He's a borderline player at best based off of that. With him it's all about upside. And he has as much of it as any player in the draft. This is a guy that was considered by some to be the best high school prospect in a decade, but then he blew out his knee. If you take him, you're banking on the upside and that he was never fully recovered at Duke. According to Chad Ford, he's looked good in his workouts, though, and there have been rumors that Miami is considering him. That's why I have him high on my list and would take him if Collins, Anunoby, and Mitchell are off the board, and really wouldn't be all that upset if they took him even with those guys there.
     
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  24. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    No typo on Donovan Mitchell. He's a SG until he's explicitly moved to PG. Really he's a combo guard, but as a combo guard he's more SG than PG. The height doesn't matter so much as the arm length/reach/wing span.

    Frank Ntilikina doesn't look that slow to me. When he pops on the jets, he can really burn. He's just more deliberate in his movements until he cracks the whip. Paul Pierce is one of the last players I'd compare him to, personally. I just don't see that.
     
  25. BevoPhin

    BevoPhin Well-Known Member

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    6' 2.5" isn't THAT short. I know d wade is listed as 6' 4" but I've heard he is closer to 6' 3".
     
  26. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    As for Kennard, I too am not getting the hype he's been getting lately, but I think he's more than a Kyle Korver. He supposedly has a great basketball IQ, and is a better athlete than he seems. He reportedly posted a 38.5'' vertical at a workout, and is said to look great in his workouts. He's a guy I'm lukewarm about Miami taking. I won't be upset if he's the pick, but I'd prefer others. I'd take him over Jackson, however, because I think he's a better athlete, and a better shooter. I worry a bit about Jackson's 3pt success only coming in his junior year. It was 30% and 29% respectively in his freshman and sophomore seasons before jumping up to 37% last year.
     
  27. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Boston only has 72.59M in committed salaries and another 37M in cap holds. Release the cap holds or send them NYKs way in the deal. The numbers are very manuvuerable. They could also send out someone like Crowder in the deal if they really wanted.

    I agree Melo alone doesn't get Boston over the hump. He gets them closer though. They still need at least one more piece. The reason they may look for a lesser older player because he's significantly better on offense and they play good defense. That's a team that needs a go to scorer, not a guy who is overrated as a scorer and a good defender.

    I guess we will soon find out. By the way, your guys Twitter feed on the side says the lakers are trying to get PG for 27, 28 and either Randle or Clarkson.
     
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  28. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Straight up I'd take Giles over Collins and Anunoby. He's a boom or bust player but the upside is huge.
     
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  29. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Zach Collins, John Collins, or both? I meant Zach Collins. Like I said, though, I would have no issue with taking him at 14 with any of the guys being mentioned (outside of something really surprising like Ntilikina or Markkenen unexpectedly falling). The Heat don't pick in the lottery very often, and at 14 there are no sure things. If you get a crack at a guy who has a chance to be the best player in the draft at that point, you have to seriously think about pulling the trigger.
     
  30. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    For a lot of NBA GMs the height will still matter. Many Gm's want certain measureables. To me, he's explicitly a PG. His height and the matchups will dictate it as such. The length is nice, but it will play better at PG then at the 2 because it's an actual advantage at Pg.

    As for my comparison to Pierce...I was thinking 25 year old Pierce not 37 year old Pierce. That was the pre-slow motion days. In the open court, Ntilikinas best attribute is his long strides and as with any long strider he doesn't look super fast but his strides eat up a lot of ground quick. In the half court though it looks and plays differently, hence the comparison. I don't think you'll have to worry about him. NYK and Mavs are probably all over that.
     
  31. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    It's not that I dislike him. I can only judge what's in front of me. I've seen his high school stuff but it's high school stuff. It's not stuff that makes me say yeah OK this is an NBA star.

    The guy reminds me a TON of Chris Bosh, which is a great thing. The problem there is the thing that made Chris Bosh who he is, is his sweet shot. Does Giles have that? I haven't seen it. If he doesn't, again I go back to the statement that I don't know what is unique about him. If anything comes close, it's his agility for a guy with a 7'3" wing span. I could perhaps buy that. Really it's about whether he develops a shot because right now he looks to me like a guy that is built to be an NBA power forward but has a game that might be more suited to a center. He doesn't even look to me as good a shooter as Whiteside.

    I mean who really knows what these guys WILL BE one day. They're all young. Nobody knew Whiteside would be what he is now. Just calling these guys like I see them, as they sit before me.
     
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  32. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Over both Collins. Being another year out from acl recovery doesn't hurt Giles either.
     
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  33. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I recognize that it is a subject of active debate. Regardless, it's a matter of opinion, not typo.
     
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  34. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Fair enough.
     
  35. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The Suns supposedly called the Knicks offering Devin Booker and pick 4. The conversation didn't last 30 seconds. Meant to post that tidbit earlier...
     
  36. BevoPhin

    BevoPhin Well-Known Member

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    Dragic is better than Devin Booker and Winslow has already gained NBA experience and could be a star.

    Still, I probably would've taken booker and the #4.
     
  37. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Booker at an nba rookie contract salary of 4-5m is far better then Dragic at 20m or whatever. Remember the Knicks, whether we like it or not, are rebuilding so Dragic are dead weight and cap space is an asset.

    Fwiw im glad the conversation went nowhere. Give me a dozen first round picks we can talk about KP. That kids got a chance to be special. An athletic 7'3" guy who can shoot a 3 and do a dream shake. Ya ok, those dont grow on trees lol. Hes getting better and will be better when the knicks turn the team over to him.
     
  38. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't know her social media history, but this looks like a mom talking about how her kids like the beach.
     
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  39. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    i´m scared about the rumours that are out there about the trade compensation for Paul George for LA, they talk about 27 and 28 Clarkson AND Randle....thats way to rich for me to get a guy who made it known he will sign here next year anyways, i´m tempted to trade the #2 to Chicago to get Jimmy Butler here, we would have no PG though.
     
  40. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I wasn't taking it that seriously

    Just having fun
     
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