Tannehill had to score? This is why these discussions go nowhere. Tannehill can't just score points. Further, using two games to dismiss four years of ineptitude by just about every part of the team is silly. You're essentially saying that because for two games his defense played decent, it invalidates all the times the defense played like garbage.
2 games? He had the 8th best and 7th best defenses in the league 2 out if his 4 years? Thats the defense doing a pretty damn good job. Tannehill couldnt even move the ball, let alone score a point. He has never looked worse in those 2 games. Yet if he plays well enough? Which didnt need to be all that good? You guys would add "led his team to the playoffs" to your list. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The last two years the defense has been terrible. I'm sorry, I cannot get in board with anything that has even a hint of complaining about what Tannehill couldn't or didn't do his first season, or even second season, in the league. A raw QB shouldn't have to deal with what he had to deal with. And which metric were they 8th and 7th best? Was it their overall ranking? Or was it in scoring? I remember having a pretty highly rated scoring defense, that was surprisingly bad in other areas.
Ofcourse it is scoring, that is the most important stat you can have. And thats fine to not expect much from him, just now when you cry that HE HAS NEVER HAD ANY HELP, be sure to add that you only mean in 2 of his 4 years.
The entire offense failed. Ryan was sacked 7 times against the Bills. I can't remember how many times against the Jets. However, our defense failed to get even one sack in either game. And they gave up nearly 400 yards in each game. 200 yards rushing against the Bills and 155 yards rushing against the Jets. Both were ugly losses and Tanny played a part in the ugliness. But again, placing the blame solely on him is ridiculous. Do you know how many times the Pats have had a 6th to 10th ranked defense and went one and done in the playoffs? 6 times. 6 times from 2006 -2012 they had defenses ranked anywhere from 2nd to 8th and lost either their first or second playoff game. Sure, they got to the playoffs, but Brady had already been in the league for 6 plus years. In Brady's first 5 years in the league he had a defense ranked lower than 5th two times. He failed to get them to the playoffs the first time and went 1 and done the second. This game is more than one player. Throw in the fact that Tanny has had a new coach and system nearly every year and I find it hard to blame the guy.
Idc if they gave up 800 yards, points are what matters. He was sacked 0 times vs the Jets by the way. It isn't SOLELY on him, but in these two crucial games he played as bad as you possibly can. And yes, I realize you guys find it hard to blame the guy....thats what these threads turn into over the past 4 years. People finding it hard (some impossible) to hold him accountable for ANYTHING!
I agree that points are what matters, but when a team is putting up 400 yards the defense isn't playing well. I never said that Tanny isn't partly to blame. I clearly said he was a part of the ugliness. You're the one saying it's SOLEY his fault. Or at least alluding to it.
Why can you "allude" to Brady failing to get his team to the playoffs with X, but call it a "team" loss when the Dolphins put up 0 then 7 in the 2 games in which they needed ONE win to be playoff bound? Seems as if you are apologizing for one QB while blaming the other. You are getting close to your derpa derma induction.
How many games did he manage to to win to help the team get to the Super Bowl, he played and won playoff games..stuff like that matters, performance under pressure, managing however you wanna call it.
Ummm...did you watch the Patriots those years? Did you ever talk to anyone who watched football during those years? Brady was thought by many to be a game manager who dinkedand dunked, and was a product of a system. I went round and round with a guy on another forum who thought Brady sucked. What, specifically, do you take issue with?
I use Brady as an example because everyone tries to say he's the reason they are so good, but blame other things when they are bad. Wins and losses, as I've said repeatedly, are team accomplishments. When I point out that Brady has played poorly, and yet still won, I'm trying to get that point across. I've said that Tanny plays poorly at times. Every player in the league has. However, Tanny and Brady's situations couldn't be more different.
Listen man, and I'm not saying this to take anything away from Brady, but, without Vinatieri, how many playoff wins and Super Bowls do you really believe Brady and the Patriots have? Yes, Brady did his part to get them in position to hit field goals...but so did running backs, oline, receivers, etc. When you attribute that all to one player, by saying stuff like "...did he manage to win...", it's disingenuous, and perpetuates the myth that QBs operate in a vacuum, independent of anyone else.
Thing is, you know that no one here really thinks the QB operates in a vacuum, independent of anyone else on the team. So it's a bit disingenuous to act like phrases that (only when taken literally) mean the QB operates in a vacuum really represent the viewpoint of who you're arguing against. Gotta remember no one here really thinks the QB is solely responsible, or that he hardly matters.
I'd call Brady a game manager too, but he's an elite game manager. I don't think there's anything wrong with a QB being a game manager if he does that extremely well. I'd even say Montana was one.
im not saying he didn't have pieces around him, but you bringin up kickers to prove any point about Brady is " I don't even know how to describe it, maddening, he has 0 place in this conversation..and trying to make a point about how he had help and whatnot is just a waste of breath...the man is a great QB regardless of the pieces, regardless of the era.. There's no one perpetuating any thing, some of us obviously have an ability to isolate and some don't..you seem to not be able to because of how you respond and have to include all this inconsequential data
so cute Shane...congratulations you have 0 ability to look outside your own homerism.. I'm a very optimistic fan, but I try not be a homer..I'm to analytical and this game is my escape so forgive me if I have to now take what you say with a grain of salt.
You are negative and uninformed. You see only what you want to see. But you seem to have an infatuation with Brady. Can't see reality.
an elite game manager...hmmmm..lol, I don't know what that means....great QB maybe.. Just because someone may fling it around a little different doesn't mean they should have different labels..elite game manage is just as good as any other QB label someone can come up with.
im negative and uninformed and infatuated?.. because I think Brady is a great QB? dude, I don't know who the fu@@ you think you are but that's about the most indicting thing I've ever heard on this board...you sir are a waste of time..without any hope. C y'all later..
Yeah the label is a bit corny, so let me elaborate a bit. Brady isn't selfish first of all. He doesn't mind letting the running game take over, he doesn't mind doing what's best for the team. I didn't always get that feeling with Marino who seemed like he wanted to win it with his arm all the time. Brady also makes good decisions in different game situations and doesn't rely on "magic" to win. It's stuff like that you'd want from a "game manager". So yeah Brady's one of the greatest ever, but I think he's in a different mold than Marino, and in Brady's or Montana's case I don't think saying they were great at being game managers is dissing them. That's really all I meant.
Regardless of what they'll say when asked the question directly, it's hard to not take them at their word when they repeatedly attribute wins and losses to the QB.
Yeah, you're right, Vinatieri had nothing to do with the Patriots post season success. It was actually Brady in disguise making those kicks. You can't separate Vinatieri from those runs, man.
Back the f--k up. You have no idea what you're f---ing talking about Lil' Ms. Deej. is one of of this sites' long time, coolest and knowledgeable posters. I've known him going back many years. I don't have a problem with you disagreeing with anyone, nor would he, but that lame s--t is way out of line.
but who's to say his decision making TO game manage, on an elite level, isn't the way to win championships?
when you go down this route I forget what it is your trying to prove...the guy has been to 6 or 7 Super Bowls, who cares if he drove down the field so his kicker could make kicks..I don't get it..
I'm sorry but until the Randy Moss/Wes Welker years he was nothing but a game manager. I'm also sorry that we're gonna pretend his own teammate didn't out the fact that his headset stays on the entire time he's playing, so he's getting help from up in the booth.
I said I was gonna leave but I'll try again here, we want a great site here with all kinds of point of views, but insinuating that were negative and uninformed because we have great respect and envy for other players who don't where our colors is not what this board is about, were better than that, and you should know that by now.
he's won 5 Super Bowls, none with Randy moss.. A QB of this caliber is a lot mental don't ya think?... To manipulate a defense mentally to create Windows, confusion, hesitation is part of the makeup..he also happens to have a great right arm.. Don't you ever think that while things are constantly changing around him his play stays the same?.. I certainly can see in isolation..even with some of the cheating.
I agree. But to write of our guy after 4 years with no support seems pretty shortsighted to me. But what do I know? I'm old.
My point is, what it always is: it takes more than one player. Yet, you, and others on here, want to boil stuff down to the QB. Brady made plays, yes. Brady has Super Bowls, and trophies, yes. But he didn't do it on his own. Wasn't freaking Vinatieri the Super Bowl MVP one year?
