Miami Dolphins: Ryan Tannehill is a dark horse in the NFL

Yeah, everyone gets upset.

Some posters go beyond that though. They even spin legit news to get the most negative interpretation possible. Then other bitter posters will harp on that invented narrative, and then it spreads and becomes what's accepted. It happens all the time.

The most famous example is the epic Philbin doesn't like #1 caliber WRs, from his first offseason. It was explained that Philbin doesn't want one WR to always be the number one receiver. He likes his guys to be interchangeable with each having a specific talent the others may not have, and then depending on the defense they face, focus on the guy whose special talent matches up best. Completely harmless, and totally reasonable. Except this was right after Marshall was traded. So the Grumpstapo moved in and turned it into Philbin is dumb and he doesn't like WRs with #1 talent.

Another example is the "leadership council" debacle.

 

I was not a member then but it was heavily talked about in the phinsider. Well, I think Philbin finally has exactly what he has always wanted now..I WR Corp that is going to be a leader to do just that and I am looking forward to this year..it just might be special.

 

Watch what happens when I show up...lol.

 

This is so ridiculous. It's been explained countless times. But, here, I'll try again. I'll use Fin-omenal (of course *smiley*) as an example: over the course of a year or two, or three, there were tons of negative comments about Tannehill, and extrapolating of certain things to predict ultimate failure of him as our QB. People began to feel that he didn't like Tannehill, and people, like myself and FinD, who disputed his erroneous conclusions, were labeled Tannehill lovers. Then, in an interesting twist, Fin-Omenal and those similar to him, began accusing us of misinterpreting their actual, genuine like of Tannehill, and painting then unfairly as haters of Tannehill.

We have been genuinely confused by this strange tactic of theirs.

 

getting rid of marshall was one of the better decisions this coach has made..

would anyone here pay marshall 10 mill a year like the jets are doing?

 

it will be fun to see where Ryan takes his game this year, I've said this many times, even predraft, no'one in the history of the game, has done and is doing, what he has done, and doing..

can anyone tell me a Division 1 major conference 1000 yard wide receiver make a switch to QB then get drafted in the 1st round, then improve every year in his first three?

no'one from my recollection has done this before, I think it could be an excellent national story at this point and if he continues to improve his qb'ing, without question unprecedented territory..

Its a great story, and he's in rarified air, but I only point out things that I feel he needs to conquer to become a great qb, will he or won't he is the question, sometimes I get pissed at him because I don't see what i want to see, but maybe because of this unprecedented transition at such levels, we've never seen a learning curve like this.

 

I don't know.. a lot of guys change positions, and even when successful before and after the change, it rarely becomes a big story. One example I know off the top of my head is Hines Ward. Guy played WR, RB and QB in college and did well at all three but few know that. Check out wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hines_Ward

"As a wide receiver for the University of Georgia Bulldogs (1994–1997), Ward's 149 career receptions for 1,965 yards placed him second in team history. He also played tailback and totaled 3,870 all-purpose yards, second only to Herschel Walker in Bulldogs history. .. Ward played some quarterback his sophomore year, and holds Georgia bowl records for pass attempts, pass completions, and passing yards in the 1995 Peach Bowl in which he completed 31 of 59 passes for 413 yards."

 

His flaws are ones that are remedied by experience, year 2 with Lazor will be that step into almost elite and we are going to the playoffs...that i do not doubt. The deep ball is no longer a big enough deal to matter because our best WR isnt a lethal deep threat.

I do wish Ryan had more control of the offense presnap but maybe that is coming??

 

If they don't start giving him more control over the offense by giving him more latitude to change plays or run when necessary, my opinion of whoever's fault that is (Philbin or Lazor) will go down. This is Tannehill's 4th year. He's already proven to be a good pocket passer. He can do more, and the coaches shouldn't limit him unnecessarily (first few years made sense, but no more).

 

what are you talking about Brad, the two situations are completely different, Tannehill converted to qb from receiver, got drafted as such in the first, and is now an NFL ascending starter...hines ward could not play qb at the nfl level so your example is not valid..really good receiver though...try again sir.

 

The point wasn't to give an equal example. The point was that rarely are national stories made out of people switching positions even if they do well before and after the switch. In Tannehill's case, it will always be mentioned occasionally, but I predict it won't go further than that.

 

yes lot of players have switched positions in college, then a few from college qb to nfl skill player, but no'oon has done the reverse to the toughest position in sports..which makes the rest of the stories not really a story but if this dude improves again, what I'm saying is he will be in unpresedented territory..not one athlete before him has ever done it..to me thats a freakin story.

 

He never had 1,000 yards receiving. Looking at his college stats what jumps out at me is, he never had more than 7.1 ypa as a full time starter. Texas A&M went from 7.1 with him, to 8.5 and 9.6 with Johnny friggin Manziel. Time will tell if that's his efficiency ceiling.

 

Well let's hope our theories are tested someday.. because that would mean Tannehill has continued to improve and made it into the upper tier of QB's. I still don't think it will become a big story even then (partly because the switch was in college.. I do think if a player makes the switch within the NFL that would be a bigger story), but if it does.. hey I won't complain. No, I'll even remind you your prediction was correct.

 

my bad..55 for 844..15 yard average..doesn't change the point for me...pretty cool story if you think about it.

as far as his low ypa,well, its why i want him to be embraced as a dual threat qb, but folks are so wussed out that he's gonna get hurt or that real qbs only play from the pocket, they get butthurt when I suggest thats what he needs to do to fulfill his potential.

 

agreed, its still unprecedented territory though, something this league has never seen, thats cool as sh&6 if you ask me..

 

Was the only difference the QB?

Its funny, when you and the rest wanna **** on the coach,you talk about how much the coach effects the team. When you wanna **** on a Tannehill, you ignore there was coach change after Tannehill left and that probably had nothing to with anything cause coaches don't have a speaking part in your narrative.

 

Tannehill's ypa has been subpar-bad for each of the five years he's played the position. This isn't some anomalous or new development. It appears to be who he is, and that's the concern.

It's a big part of why 'breaking Dan Marino's record' resulted in only the 14th-best passer rating in 2015. Some measures mean a lot more than others, and a high number of total completions was enough to score us a mediocre passer rating, the 11th scoring offense in the League, and watching the playoffs from the couch. If this is the stuff that comes with a completions record, then the record isn't that big a deal. I don't want him to repeat what he did last year, because it wasn't good enough; he needs to improve in other areas of the game to take his offense to the next level.

 

If a QB has a 4.5 year history of playing a certain way. You notice it. This is college where numbers are supposed to be gaudy. QBs with 8 ypas, RBs with 7 ypc. There are exceptions always and of course. Through the last 8 games of last year, CK posted Ryan had one of the lowest YPA's still. It's not crazy to ask, if that is who he is.

I've got plenty of money riding on Tannehill as I'm stashing him on two dynasty rosters of my own. I have faith. I also have questions. If all I wanted to know where unicorns and reindeer I'd log off this forum and just wait for the games with blind optimism.

 

Has Kaep or Wilson been hurt at all?

 

Not that I know of...but look at Vick, Newton and RG3.

That style of QB hasn't lasted a career yet...I'm thinking Wilson may be the first to do it.

 

RG3 is an idiot. Newton is tough but man he takes some hits. Wilson is super smart. I like the guys who will run to create a play first, then scramble if it's there. Cut and run too much and they'll gut hurt.

 

Ya that's why I think Wilson can pull it off long term...he's slick with it, and doesn't take crushing hits often.

 

lol revisionist history. Nobody is butt hurt that you want Ryan Tannehill to be a "dual threat" QB (which he already is, as he had 300 yards rushing in 2014, more than A-Rod). You don't just get that Ryan Tannehill is a pocket passer w/mobility, not a new generation 'Mobile Passer.' Ryan Tannehill isn't Russell Wilson, Colin Kaepernick, or Cam Newton. Ryan Tannehill CHOOSES to stay in the pocket and not run, because that's WHO HE IS. Tannehill isn't who YOU want him to be. And you constantly fault him for that.

Moreso, Tannehill staying in the pocket has paid dividends as he's trended upward's as a passer for three years running while you boy Ckap has regressed and looks utterly clueless when forced to play the position from the same space.

 

Your last comment is it, you have to give him time to work on things it's all about experience I believe he'll take the next step.

 

Don't be fooled...

Watch Gruden's qb camp with Ryan. The raw and inexperienced hype doesn't match what Gruden saw. He was impressed and knew he was running the closest thing to a pro offense at A&M. The only real doubt I ever had was whether or not he could take a hit while delivering the ball...I've been on board since his rookie year at AZ.

 

Well tell me sir.....who is the better QB? Of course it is an easy answer plus our guy is not a coke head.

 

I'm just illustrating the fact that, so far, Ryan's never been an elite in terms of YPA, not even in college. He's been pretty low actually. The best QBs have seasons well above 7.5 (with variations of course) and above 8. The guys stuck around 7s are the Cutlers, Dalton's, and Alex Smith, etc.

Yeah I know, Tom Brady yada yada yada but he's shown he can hang around the 8s with the proper weapons. Other than TD's (by a little) Tannehill's numbers are eerily similar to Alex Smith's. Ryan has 10x more arm talent.

 

Well, we'll see what Tannehill does this year with proper weapons.

 

I've got him waiting on two of my teams hoping for just that.

 

awww, your butthurt..lol....the point of the forum is to express how we feel about our players and what we think needs to be done..because I say this is what I think he needs to do doesn't mean anything but my opinion so chill with your little silly game.

wrong, while ryan may be trending upwards from the pocket doesn't mean he's played the position any more correctly or better than Kaepernik, there is more to qb'ing than standing in the pocket...When your the most sacked qb over the past three years, you have every bit as good of odds as getting hurt than someone who runs.

I'm not gonna turn this into a Ryan vas Kap thread even though your totally baiting me to do such, but I will say this, as passers, one has a 91 career passer rating, and the other 84, {your def of utterly clueless seems a like a troll using words to try and to start a fight}} not counting whatever one does on the ground compared to the other..

so yes, WHAT I THINK RYAN SHOULD DO, because I don't speak for anyone else{I feel your butt hurting} is the things I've said before on the forum in order to fulfill his potential, you don't like it, tough sh&^.

getting back to the good stuff about ryan before trollboy got in the way...maybe this unique athlete deserves a longer curve to see what the ceiling looks like, because he is trending upwards all three years from the standards that he set in his rookie year, and thats pretty cool that going into year 4, theres a good chance the player is gonna get better.

 

I too have written that I believe he will be better this year..

 

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/07/03/nfl-quarterback-rankings/2/

15. Ryan Tannehill, Dolphins

An underappreciated athlete and good pure passer who has progressed every year in his career..


ahead of newton which I agree with, right around the spot I've had him rated.

 

Well one things for sure, Tannehill is one tough SOB. A raw rookie starter, he has taken a beating since day one, yet he continues to get better and better. I don't think I've ever seen that before. Maybe Archie Manning but, I'm sure I may have forgotten someone in there.

Tannehill now has his perfect compliment of WRs in Jennings, Cameron, Landry, and a wait-and-see Parker. Now fix the damn O-Line and watch the kid go.

 

Ok..fair enough..

 

not only the toughness displayed but literally not showing up his line at all..

 

Judging by your response, you're the only one butt hurt. I'm just spitting truth. No "silly games" needed. You obviously want Tannehill be something that he isn't and criticize him for it consistency.

Ryan Tannehill trending upwards for his entire career is only half the equation. Colin Kaepernick is trending downwards for his entire career is the other half. Including a melt down last season, in which he absolutely looked like a deer in the headlights from the pocket. As the NFL has caught up with the read option, Ckaep has regressed.

Bait you into a debate about who is better? There is no debate. Tannehill > Ckaep. Period. I don't care what the career QB ratings say, Ckaep couldn't stand in the pocket and throw the ball downfield into NFL windows. Much like Alex Smith in KC. Maybe that's why his career high in passing yards is 3,300 and he's regressed every year, despite having almost every advantage. /debate.

And when you share your opinion on an open forum, you open yourself up to judgement about your opinion. Especially when you try to be cute and play martyr. In this case, your opinion is being scrutinized for projecting other player's skill sets onto Tannehill and criticizing Tannehill for not being what they're. Don't like it? "tough sh&^."

Trolling (p.s. who's butt hurt again? lulz)? Clearly you don't know the definition of a troll. You expressed your opinion, played martyr, and got called out on it. And projected your own "butt hurt" onto those who don't agree with your opinion that Ryan Tannehill should be Russell Wilson, Ckaep, or any mobile passer you deem better than Tannehill. Facts. Not trolling.

 

you brought Kapernik up, not me..you called him MY boy because I suggested, imo that I think that ryan should be used as a dual threat by his coach and himself more than he is, then you went on your lil diatribe about being a martyr lol..how bout you piss off, or tell me what you would like to debate specifically?

 

Because you have a a history of bringing up Ckaep (And Wilson, who I also referenced) as direct comparisons of who Ryan Tannehill should be. And I've been clear about what this conversation is about. You said people were "butt hurt" about your duel threat QB ideals that you want Ryan Tannehill to follow to fulfill his potential. That's not accurate (Hence the "martyr" reference).

The real issue is, Ryan Tannehill isn't a mobile passer in the mold of Wilson, Ckaep, Newton, Mariota, or RGIII. That's not the type of QB he is. Yet, you constantly compare him against those guys and do so negatively. Like suggesting his YPA demonstrate his limitations as passer (it doesn't, nor is the context of that data accurate) and needs to supplement his inability to throw at an elite level, with running. Ryan Tannehill isn't a running QB. Yes, he's athletic. Yes, he's got running ability. But Ryan Tannehill is a pocket passer. Always has been. College through 2014. That's his game.

It's like the Michael Vick debate in reverse. Back in the day, people criticized Vick for not being more of a pocket passer. But that's not who he is. You can't make a player be something he isn't, because you like another player's skill set/play style better. At some point, you accept the player for what they're or you don't. Ryan Tannehill is pocket passer w/mobility. Ryan Tannehill's first priority is to drop back, read the field, and throw the football. Tannehill is athletic and Miami can take advantage of his mobility by mixing up some read option runs (as they did last year, Tannehill became the first QB since Vick to run for 40+ yards in four consecutive games). But as far as playing QB goes, Ryan is a pocket passer. Criticizing him for not being run oriented like other QB's you prefer isn't reasonable.

edit: I could understand and agree w/an argument of Lazor adding in more designed movement in the offense like bootlegs, read option, etc... to take advantage of Ryan's athleticism in ways which he excels at (like throwing on the run). But that's not the same thing as what I believe you're suggesting, which sounds like fundamentally augmenting the way he plays QB to mimic a play style he's NEVER demonstrated.