Landry / Beckham Receiving Show

mike irvin

 

That's exactly the point. The Ravens are not what I consider perennial super bowl contenders. I think that was mentioned above, is Tanny a multiple championship contender? Now, I know Rodgers and Manning have only won one, but you pencil them in as SB contenders year in, year out because of who is at QB. Don't see that with Flacco. Hell Romo has been elite almost his whole career save for a few games, but he's never taken his team by the horns and wrestled it. We'd all die if Tannehill played as well as Romo has numbers wise. It's still not a bad place to be.

 

Greg, honestly if you have not viewed allot of the LSU games or highlights you are missing out on much of what Landry can do....He caught many deep balls for LSU and he is very good at highpointing the ball and fighting off the defender to catch it. He also lulls the DB's to sleep and then is able to get behind them wide open for big scores. You gotta see the highlights my friend.

 

Yes, and Landry will be a captain imvho.....let's wait and see. I, for one, think that Jarvis is much better than his 9 yard per catch average and I think that we will see that go up this year to at least 12 yards per catch. We have weapons s everywhere now...gonna be fun.

 

Greg, allot of this comes from when you first joined these threads...go back and read your posts from the first month and I bet you will see why you get arguments. I like some of the things you have to say and for the most part you are less condescending than you originally were. Cheers.

 

I can't think of any offenses that are "led" by their slot receivers and that's why I don't understand this topic. If you're going to say that Jarvis Landry or Randall Cobb are "leaders" because they are good players, then basically any good player is therefore a leader and you have dozens of leaders on every team and hundreds around the NFL.

IF that's alright then we can stop there and just say, yeah, by his work ethic and energy, Jarvis Landry is a leader.

I have no problem saying that if we're using that line of thinking. To me however, that's too loose a definition.

You'll find that the definition of leadership is entirely dependent upon what environment you're talking about. Yes, in sports, a great deal of leadership revolves around motivating others but there are fields in which leadership has nothing to do with that.

Sports involves physical effort and young people hence the need to "motivate" them. Kind of sad, but yes, young players almost always need to be pushed like that, even the good ones.

And yet you promised to stop trolling me.

Well, just keep talking...as inappropriate and off-topic as it is...just keep talking.

I have to agree with this. It's Ryan Tannehill's job to be the #1 guy on the team. The offense is run through the QB, therefore--unless you have a dynasty with HoF talent all around (Cowboys)--the QB really should be the guy in charge.

I was super friendly and positive when I joined the forum because I wanted to fit in and yet immediately this proved to be one of the most hostile forums I'd come across. I was part of another very good forum that slowly fell victim to the same sort of "that perspective isn't welcome here" kind of thing that this forum sometimes puts out there. I left that forum largely because I was the last good, positive, optimistic guy standing and it became bitter infighting amongst really smug and self-righteous posters. If I'm not positive and optimistic it's probably because that forum corrupted me, lol. I spent endless hours trying to see the good in Ireland, Sparano, Henne, Ginn, Pasqualoni, Henning, etc. That era was brutal on a naturally optimistic guy like me.

So when the Philbin/Tannehill era began I was all ready to sit back and just watch and stop being so overly critical about a team that was always .500. The most heated debates are always about middle-of-the-road players and teams. That's the ironic thing.

At this point, the team has progressed but it's still 8-8 so I'm just not going to get overly amped about guys who aren't superstars yet nor a team that hasn't even gotten to the Play-offs despite having ample talent at most positions. There's no reason to promote our QB or our slot WR as though they are elite players. We'll do that when they prove they are and the time is coming, but it's not now, before the season when no one has taken a real snap.

What I recall about first joining this forum is that several posters were very quick to try and boot me by being extra rude and confrontational as though I wasn't welcome. That's a social, clique thing and not a football thing...it's an altogether different topic of conversation and it's true of every forum, regardless of topic. Outsiders generally aren't welcome by certain personalities who feel they "own" their forum. That's always going to happen which is why I tried to extend an olive branch to 1968.

Maybe go back and read my very first post and you'll see what I'm talking about. At some point I probably stopped being super polite and started being a little condescending because at some point that's how you get the attention of a disrespectful person--you turn the behavior around on them and prove that you'll return the favor so long as they keep at it.

As I said...I'm sick of being the guy who doesn't like Tannehill and Landry. I don't want to play that part. I love those guys and I root for the Dolphins so why do I come to a forum and argue against those guys? It doesn't make sense and I'm sick of being the bad guy when I'm just trying to be realistic about the team I root for.

I put a couple people on block and it's made a huge difference. They didn't want to discuss football ideas (see 1968 here). They just wanted to argue and be difficult and make sure I knew I wasn't welcome and that I was completely stupid. It's just bullying is all it is. To me, that's not acceptable so those people either get blocked or they get very condescending responses.

 

I think he will be because he fits the billand everyone else is young and/or new.

You have to consider that Parker, Jennings, Stills and Cameron are really not in line to be captains. Landry is the hold-over so he's the one with the chance and thankfully his attitude, work ethic, etc. all make him a good candidate. There would also be at least one on the O-line (probably Pouncey).

But to me, it's all about Tannehill. He's got to be the captain of the captains, lol. Every else needs to be his subordinate.

 

No, you made up your mind a long time ago (as did a few others) that I'm am an overly arrogant and self-righteous dick. If you read between the lines of every post I make trying to make me out to be that guy, what do you think will happen? You're going to keep thinking that and convince yourself further by seeing stuff that isn't there.

I have never directly called anyone stupid or dumb. That's a lie. I have (and will continue) to casually make off-hand remarks (in a jovial manor) like '2+3=6 is dumb'...and that's fair. If using "dumb" or "stupid" in that context offends you...I'd say you're being too sensitive. This is the internet and you're an adult. It really shouldn't offend you that someone uses the word "dumb" to categorize nonsense. You're saying that I'm calling people stupid and dumb. I'm not and I never have. I have never done that and would never tell someone to "piss off" or "play in trafffic."

But when someone says "Tannehill is definitely going to be the next Aaron Rodgers" that classifies as absurd enough to warrant the label "dumb statement" because they used the word "definitely."


I have never implied or stated that I am smarter than other people. That whole thing needs to die, right now. DJ, can I get an apology please!?

Saying "I'm an engineer by trade" is not an insult to anyone else, and I will not apologize for introducing myself that way. IN my first post I was simply trying to give other people information about who I am (if they care) so I can share how I view the team, how I came to be a fan and what I do between Sundays. If you don't care about that, let it slide and don't remember that fact. DJ threw it in my face as though I was bragging.

WTF? Bragging? What do you think my reaction to that hostile take was? Was I supposed to apologize because someone got it mixed up and though I was being all high and mighty about my job? No...if you're waiting on that apology it ain't coming.


I wish we all could provide that sort of background but very few people are willing to give their real names, their real ages, their actual profession, etc. I hate to tell you guys this but all of that kind of thing has some bearing on how people view you and your opinion. My background shows I'm smart but that I'm not actually involved with football. If someone says, 'Hi, I'm Dan and I have a high school education but I'm a scout for an NFL team' that person will instantly have more credibility than me.

I'm 29. I'm a structural engineer. My name is Greg. I am from Florida and I live in the South on the east coast. I don't know anything about football that is resume-worthy.

1968, you are flying a Navy banner. That's great. I have ties to the Navy both in my family and in what I do. Would it make me arrogant to say so? Does it make you arrogant that you fly that flag?

No...it doesn't. I don't draw those kinds of conclusions before reading your posts because that would be "dumb" of me.

 

Well...I obviously tried and was fooled.

Maybe I'm an idiot, but I tried and I think people will give me credit for that.

At this point, I'd say you are the very definition of a troll.

You come to the forum to pick a fight and you laugh when other people try and reason with you.

Troll is as troll does. I mistook for you a normal 46-year old guy.

You are not a nice poster to have around and so I'm blocking you.



People will remember how you acted here.

 

I've never blocked anyone on a forum but if I were going to you would be near the top of the list for me here. I find some of your posts to be offensive, mean spirited, condescending. That's all.

 

Thanks, I guess.

Based on personal experience I'd say do it, haha...I mean, obviously it's disappointing to hear that from my perspective, but it's fine for you to have that view and that's totally your right and I don't mind in fact I totally support people using the 'ignore' feature as I think it's one of the best tools on the site.

I certainly don't write my posts to be offensive, mean-spirited or condescending but apparently there are a small handful of people who really think they are. That's alright by me. There are people smarter than me who get ripped on. There are always clashes in a forum this size. No single poster can apologize every time someone gets mad at how they phrased something.

If a few people think I'm rude and condescending...I guess I just don't really care that much, which ironically makes me sound more condescending to those people and then they're argue 'look! that's you being condescending!', lol.

Since I don't intend posts to be that way, I'm not really sure how I could even begin to fix them, or if they really need fixing in the first place. To me, it kind of sounds like people are reading too much emotion into the words I type. The way I type is kind of the way I talk so most stuff is off the cuff and not intended to be highly scrutinized and emotionally-critiqued. This is pretty much how I'd address you if you were a close friend of mine. Typing less would probably help fix that. Other than my lack of brevity, please tell me if there's something blatant that I'm doing which is over the line.

I will say this...I hadn't blocked anyone before joining this forum and it made a world of difference when I did because it got rid of the 2-3 voices that were really bothersome and were inclined to make personal attacks. With those few voices out of the way, the forum seemed a lot more level-headed and football-oriented which is what I wanted when I signed up.

I know it's weird to say it...but my own experience says that if someone is really annoying you, block 'em. It really helps.

Sorry if my words paint a picture you don't like, but as I said, I won't be personally offended if you want to ignore me because I think it's one of the best tools this forum has and not everyone is going to get along in a forum this size.

Cheers!

 

Greg, I realize that leadership means different things in different places. However, we're talking about football here. Watch the movie Rudy. While somewhat fictionalized, that is a good example of what I'm getting at. Of course without being inside the locker rooms of teams, there's literally probably no way of knowing which guys are doing what I attributed to leaders on a football team.

 

Honest question though...does it translate to winning games? I know it's a topic fans like to discuss, but is it worthwhile? I've seen a lot of good guys in role-player, O-line, D-line and LB positions come and go over the last 15 years on the Dolphins and the team has always more or less been the same under-achieving bunch. Zach Thomas was that type of guy and he wasn't able to carry the team.

It's great that Landry has a positive attitude...I think it's a lot more important that the other guys are smart enough to learn and physically able to perform though.

I guess, I'm not really sure what being a good leader means for Landry...as in, what are the real consequences to the team's record that aren't directly the result of getting better talent at the other positions? Not the Hollywood story, haha.

 

how isn't wilson a prototypical leader?

 

a good leader makes other players push themselves harder, thus creating better performance.

 

I agree, but that's a very loose definition and it's why I tried to break leadership down a bit into it's subcomponents. What you're talking about is really more inspirational. If we look at the Dolphins and ask what players are doing that sort of thing, I see several: Branden Albert, Mike Pouncey, Jarvis Landry, Greg Jennings, etc. Those guys should all be considered inspirational now and within a few years I would expect Juwuan James to be there as well. I'm sure that Lamar Miller's work-ethic is motivating Jay Ajayi right now.

At the end of the day, it's hard to part of a team and not be motivated by almost everyone around you in some capacity.

The one name not present here is Tannehill...to me, he's the guy that really needs to step up in the category of "motivates his teammates."

 

agreed on ryan, but thats been one of his weaknesses since college, jmo..hes getting better but its a slow process for him, I do see some progress..

back to your point about inspiration or leadership, not sure where your coming from, I've been looking into Jarvis a lot the past two years, yes, he's def inspirational, but he has a way that demonstrates that he knows how to communicate with men, a way where other men are looking to him to be lead..

One important thing to remember and its something that you may be overlooking, is that i think I see your point about him just being a slot receiver and he can only lead so much from that position, point to remember, jarvis does the extraordinary pretty frequently, when you combine those two elements players tend to listen when you talk.

if you continue to watch that catch he made against arkansas as he goes to the sideline, you will see players think, wow, this guy is something special, he just won our game by making an impossible play in the clutch..players crave that gene, an from the look on all parties faces, the players want to be him, and jarvis knows it.

I think we may be seeing a small version of mike irvin..also, remember, wes welker dominated football games.

 

But that wasn't the discussion. We were discussing whether or not he's a leader, not whether or not leadership wins games.

 

Well, I think we're both sitting here hoping that all happens and Landry turns out to be the emotional backbone of the team. I totally admit that football is not always a science that sometimes you put a guy in (Knowshon Moreno is an example) and the entire tone of an offense just changes.

I guess my only bone of contention is that there's usually a very good reason for that. Moreno was running tough and breaking tackles which his teammates saw. That's inspirational, but that's also something you can put on tape and take to the bank. That's more than just effort, it's quantifiable results.

So...when you look at it like that, yes Landry has the attitude, but can he be a 1,200-yd guy? Can he score 8-10 TDs? Going from 750 yards with 5 TDs to 850 yards with 6 TDs is not exactly something that will put any of us in shock.

That's where I back off. Victor Cruz put up 1,500 yards but he had elite speed and was essentially the team's big-play guy when he did that. Jarvis Landry isn't going to have a lot of plays or 30+ yards because he simply doesn't have elite speed. It's just not realistic to expect that to happen for someone who's 4.5 on a good day.

I'd love it if he put up 1,200 yards, don't get me wrong, but this is not NE where 1 player is going to be featured like that...at least I don't anticipate that happening.

I think this is going to be a spread it around, take the pressure off the QB kind of operation with Tannehill, Lazor and all these new receiving weapons.

 

If leadership doesn't translate to increased winning why would it be a point of discussion?

The implication is obviously that Landry's leadership (whatever it is) will bode well for the team and it's record.

 

If Landry's play and effort motivate his teammates to play better, then it doesn't matter of he gets 1200 yards and 8 tds. He will be a leader if his plays inspires others to play better, no matter what his numbers are.

 

Well, we can all see that much...but again...you're tying "leadership" (whatever it is exactly) to production and therefore the implication is that the team would win more games.

 

I'm just not going to argue whether it affects winning, because I don't think it can be proved. That being said, common sense tells me that if others players are playing harder and upping their game because of his example, then winning should be a result of it.

 

Ok...but the conversation went sort of like this:

Landry is a leader.
He can't be, he's not the QB.
QBs aren't the only leaders.
Well, he doesn't have good enough numbers to be a leader.
He doesn't have to have good numbers to be a leader.
Leadership doesn't translate to wins.

 

And I agree with all that. We can't prove it but it's a reasonable idea.


And my follow up to that was...we've had those players before and we haven't won, so shouldn't we consider who Landry is leading?

I'm sure you agree because the surrounding cast is also important. That's pretty obvious I think.

I guess my point has been that Landry can do his thing and the team can still be 8-8 or worse if other young guys like Tannehill, Parker and Stills don't ante up and do their share.

I don't think Landry working hard is going to make up for any of those other guys slacking so yeah a good influence is one thing, but I need those other guys to live up to expectations and improve their game. That's going to take more than just a little motivation from a teammate I think.

 

I agree with the bolded. I think you might be doing a strawman argument with some of those. For example, I never said that only QBs were leaders. I agree with what jdang said which I thought was a good point.

He said that it's important for teams to have a strong leader at the QB position and that most teams that contend over and over have QBs that are considered from the outside to be very good leaders.

That does not mean that other players can't be leaders or that their leadership isn't important. I think common sense defeats that notion.

 

I absolutely think he can be a 1200 10 td receiver, and I think your right about the inspirational part, thats what he is right now, an inspiration for others to be their best..but has the potential to step in front of the team, and lead...

 

I think it's fair to say I'm slightly less optimistic in my projection compared to you but I totally see where you're coming from and I hope it happens.

 

Pure BS..literally. And I am sure that most of us do not really thin that 68 literally meant for Greg to run out into the street. Just a FOS.

 

he was a rookie last year..with everyone learning a new offense, you've got to factor in improvement and increased production, and what kind of player we may be dealing with..

Im the biggest wes welker fan on this site, and went on record stating that if we trade him its going to be the worst trade in our history, I also think he will go in the hall of fame.

3 times welker surpassed 1200 yards, two more times eclipsing 1100..

I don't think its false optimism to project the gifted Landry..

P.S..at this point 90 percent of LSU fans would take Javis landry over Odell? why is that..they have no horse in the race..is it just because Jarvis's tenacity gives us a false idea of his talent?

 

Are you sure you're not adding a bit of heroism to exactly what Landry did last year?

I saw a lot of short routes and underneath stuff from Landry last year that was pretty run of the mill.

He caught a lot of short passes, totaled about 750 yards and made it into the endzone 5 times.

Why do we have to make that out to be more than it is?

I'm not saying it's bad.


How do you get around the fact that this team is stacked with weapons and the QB probably isn't going to add more than 500 yards to his total.

Is that ALL going to go to Landry, lol?

 

Well, I can understand that and maybe when you joined these threads you still had the old place in near memory and maybe that contributed..honestly I think you are ok,but I became upset really quickly when you started talking about your profession and your smarts,etc.etc. to us in the threads...I think that you might find that most of us does not know what profession that one poster is in from the next. We are all here for one reason...We love Dolphins Football and we want what's best for the team. Sure, almost everyone thinks they have ideas why we have not been winners in many moons, and how best to get their. I have been around since 1966 as a fan so I too have been a part of the best of times and part of the worst of times. I just knew that the way Shula was forced out, I figured Karma would kick us in the flipper....and boy, has it ever..I am very optimistic this year and I want to see our team dominate.

 

I also predicted Welker would be a 1000 yard receiver in NE, and also that his tds would go up. Was not happy with that trade.

 

well, I think Jarvis will lead the team in receptions and yards, I think Tannehill will depend on him and trusts him, as he should..and I'm trying to figure out if the Jarvis lure is more special than his size and speed would indicate..

I didn't say he would get 1200 next year, said he had the potential..

I do believe he will eclipse 1000..bet is still in effect?

 

Well, maybe it's just a generational thing, because I know Dolphins fans of your age that are not as open as me about their private information. At 29, I'm part of a younger generation that is pretty open about sharing who we are, what we do and some us...how are days are going, lol.

Seems to me that's what this is.

Yeah...I never got why my "hello world" introduction was taken by some people as an insult and why I've had to continually answer for what was nothing since I joined.

Can you imagine how annoying that has been that folks continually tell me I made some sort of arrogant comment when in reality what I wrote was just to share and show good faith?

Imagine how that feels. Not great. Not very welcoming.

But yeah...let's move forward. My goal is to discuss football with folks who have a similar fascination with this team and I credit you for sitting through the last 20 years of BS. That couldn't have been easy, lol.

 

Oh yeah.

I just don't see it happening with Cameron and Parker being healthy.

That said...bet's off if Cameron and/or Parker miss serious time. If Landry is nothing more than a safety blanket or just becomes the best available option on a team that can't stretch the field with any real offense that doesn't prove your point or speak to Landry's skills.

In fact, we should probably do a YPC thing instead to save ourselves from that.

Same goes if Landry misses time. Wouldn't hold you to it.