And that has what to do with the confidence and freedom one feels when playing with a defense that holds teams o average to 16 points a game? His numbers have gone down when he throws often, it's one thing that Wilson detractors routinely pull out, do it's not like he's always awesome when he had to throw alot. Nonetheless, playing from behind, when you have to score, say 22, it's forget then when you have to score 35'
Exactly. Wilson operates under less pressure than any QB in recent memory. Not only does he have one of the best running games, he has a defense that leads the league in points allowed and turnovers forced. But good luck arguing that with his fan club, some folks have trouble drawing the line between team success and individual play.
Yeah, but he's not really being paid a lot, relative to the position. As far as running, sure, but I still think that it is being over exaggerated as to how much he should have run. He doesn't have lateral agility like Wilson, so expecting him to escape like Wilson and then run is sort of silly. It almost has to be more designed runs. Or, if you see the oline stop giving up pressure from both sides and to the middle, he may run more, as he'll actually have some lanes. Yes, there were a couple situations last season where I thought he could have run, and didn't, but it wasn't as much as others seem to have seen. I think he has been coached to stay in the pocket and make plays by throwing. I could be wrong, but that's the feeling I get watching him.
That only makes the team more successful, which they are, they've been to two Superbowls in a row. But that doesn't affect how he plays. Wilson is one of the best in the league. I wouldn't hesitate to take him over Ryan Tannehill at this point. You want to talk about pressure? How about get rid of his receiving weapons and run with a bunch of 3s, 4s and 5s.
Having a great defense and run game doesn't affect how he plays? That seems a tad bit ridiculous to say.
That's a disingenuous point to make given how few times Wilson has played from behind. IIRC he's faced a double digit deficit 5 times in 54 games. Tannehill, for example, faced double digit deficits at least 6 times in 2014 alone.
3s, 4s, 5s, like the ones Tannehill played with as a rookie? If you want to talk OL Tannehill had one of the worst in 2013, and after Albert went down the 2014 OL wasn't much better. I like Wilson but he is not one of the best in the league. Most efficient? Yes. Most fun to watch? Certainly. Still, he has giant holes in his game that are rarely exploited bc of the team he has around him, even when he plays terrible Seattle has a good chance to win, see NFCCG 2014. The Dolphins would have trouble winning vs a good college team if Tannehill threw four INTs, meanwhile Seattle beats one of the leagues best teams and their HOF QB. I really think you're underestimating how good the Seahawks are.
Yes, like the ones Tannehill played with as a rookie to a 75 rating. Meanwhile Wilson = Superbowl and a 95 rating in a down year.
Yeah but DJ had an interesting point comparing RT17 and Brady's running. Forgot what it was exactly but it was shocking.
Again, I think you're underestimating how good Seattle's team is. You can get by with subpar WRs when you're running the ball as well as they do and your defense is allowing only 14 ppg. Watch their games. Watch the Super Bowl, NE sold out to stop the run and left their CBs on an island all game long. They gave up several big plays to those 3s, 4s and 5s. But they didn't deviate bc that's what you have to do vs Seattle if you want to win, and even tho they sold out Seattle was still able to run effectively. Like Herman Edwards says, you play to win the game, you don't play to just play. You don't play to stop Wilson or prove he's overrated. If Wilson ever plays w/o an elite defense and strong run game then perhaps you'll see my point more clearly, till then I can understand your skepticism.
Forget about QBs for a second. Look at the rest of the Seahawks roster. Now compare that to the Dolphins roster. As much as I protest Tannehill's contract, I know Tannehill would do much better on the Seahawks roster than the Dolphins roster. Not comparing Tannehill and Wilson, so don't misquote me.
And that affects Wilson's play how? Wilson has played with subpar WRs and he's still excellent. When your best WR is Doug Baldwin, Houston we have a problem.
Defense keeps him on the field and allows him to play with a lead and/or not require many points to win. Running game takes pressure off the pass rush, allows him to run the read option (whole other lengthy discussion on how it helps makes throws easier), defense isn't just accounting for his throwing but SEVERAL running options. I can go on and on but the point is he has soooo much help that he doesn't need to be the man. Being the man is waaaay tougher than being efficient. There are a lot more Danny Greens and Patty Mills than there are Michael Jordans and Kobe Bryants.
Yeah, but when Brady runs, it's not cause there is pressure, it's because everyone is covered, and his line is holding the defenders at bay, so he runs, and there is no one close to him.
You really should go see his splits before you make "guesses" about how he plays when given a lead, when playing from behind, when throwing it 21-30 times, and 31-40 times. http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/14881/russell-wilson
His attempts while leading vs while trailing is almost identical: 167/169 attempts while winning/trailing. 98.6/95.0 rating winning/trailing.
Still. Tannehill hasn't fully taken advantage of his abilities. He had that one REALLY good run. Forgot against who but it went for something like 30+ yards. The fact that I can't remember it is a sign that he should do it more often. His first career TD was when he ran it in for crying out loud. I also remember his first passing TD. It was to Fasano.
Did you notice the "and/or" in the entire statement or are you just going to cherry pick arguments and ignore my points? You also completely ignored everything after that.
Ryan Tannehill on PFT Live http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ill-im-really-excited-to-have-devante-parker/ Didn't see this posted anywhere, and I'm not going to create a new thread just for this, so I'll go ahead and post it here. Near the bottom of the page there's a video of Tannehill on PFT Live which is pretty good. Some interesting tidbits in the video: - One area of the game he wants to improve on this season: Red zone scoring. - When asked about the deep ball: he doesn't think there's an issue there, just lack of production due to a variety of factors. The team's addressing those things right now and he feels great about where they're at. Says that his receivers are catching the ball downfield really well (sounds like a slight jab at Wallace to me) and are working on those things so that they can payoff this year, rather than miss them.
As I said before. It's cute that there are still people trying to make this argument about Russell Wilson. It brings me back to around 2003-ish when people were making the argument about how Tom Brady is really just an average quarterback that is being made by Belichick's defense and a strong ground game. That's adorable.
There are people that still insist they were right about Roethlisberger being overratted his first 2 or 3 seasons. Even if Wilson goes on to be the greatest QB of all time the same thing will happen: "sure he's elite now but that doesn't mean I was wrong about him being crapola in 2013..."
Not a very informative stat. Trailing but how much at what point in the game? A 3-0 deficit in the first quarter is a lot diff than being down 14 with 8 minutes left. I said earlier he's been behind by 10 or more a handful of times his entire career. Tannehill trailed by double digits at least 6 times in 2014 alone. Any thoughts on that?
Man, it's frustrating, Honda. The things we've been talking about in this thread, have been hashed out on this site, so many times, and yet they still get brought up, over and over and over.
Seriously. As if Romo, Ryan, Rivers, Stafford, Newton, and plenty of other QBs, Tannehill included, couldn't win Super Bowls playing with a team as good as Seattle. The main reason I love football is bc it's the ultimate team sport so I can get a little peeved when folks try to dumb it down. If you wanna crown individuals for winning championships do it in tennis, golf or boxing. Just once I wanna hear some say that Calvin Johnson is decent but he's no Julian Edelman, I mean how many playoff games has Megatron won?? They'd sound only slightly less informed than the people who do it with QBs.
IMO, it has a lot to do with the freaky year of 2012. If Tannehill was drafted any other year he would be brought up more in conversation as one of the top young quarterbacks. He just happened to be drafted in a year where in his rookie season he was arguably the 5th best quarterback. Two of those quarterbacks have dropped off significantly, so he looks to be the solid third. However in most drafts he easily would be the best of the class. It is hard to go against first impressions.
What dude? Brady is not just out there running away from defenders. Dude is slow, lumbering around when he runs. He tucks and runs when everyone is covered...But it's not when he's got defenders coming from multiple places. That's when he throws it away, or drops to the ground. Not sure what you're seeing.
We may find out about that sooner than later...if Wilson is serious about his payday expectations and the Seachickens stick to their "max salary for any player, no matter the position" stance. Their GM was pretty pissed off the Dolphins gave RT a $19M per year extension. And the Johnson / Edelman thing you did there...love it.
I think you make a great point. The pre draft hype can live with a guy for a long time, as will his rookie season. Of course, in our case we were fortunate that he was there for us to be had when we picked. Had he come out another year he likely wouldn't have been. Add to that the fact that almost everyone said that he needed to sit for a least a year, and maybe two before starting, and look at where he is. 6th most yards ever in a player's first three seasons.
The difference is people believe Tannehill is worth his contract. Megatron is DEFINITELY worth his contract. Megatron is hands down one of the best, if not the best, at his position.
Tannehill is worth more to the Dolphins than Johnson is to the Lions. That's how much more important a QB is vs a WR. Johnson is going to cost more over the next few years too. No WR is worth a $20M + cap hit over multiple years. Johnson isn't worth his contract, but I'm glad he got it. Miami doesn’t get Suh without it.
And Megatron is paid like one of the best at his position, Tannehill is not. Tannehill is paid like a solid starting QB who has the potential to go even higher. You act as if all second contracts are the same, when Tannehill is being paid what the market says he is worth.
And Russell Wilson has been one of the best QBs in the league over the last 3 years so if you want to play the hypothetical game you could just as easily reverse that and say Wilson would have won a SB on a dozen different teams in the league, Miami being one of them.
The world is split into those who think Russell Wilson has been one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL the last three years, and those who are wrong.
I personally look forward to bowing at my Russell Wilson shrine as he goes on to pass for a 300 passer rating this coming season. You'll all be believers. Somehow the guy with 50 homers on 100 at bats is worse than the guy with 50 on 300 at bats because he isn't asked to bat as much and therefore isn't as relied on.
