You mentioned what all those QBs are 'great' at. So let me ask you this... What would you consider 'great' in RT17's game? The 6 yard throw? Taking unnecessary sacks?
Plus, if you believe that his teammates are quibbling, it sends the message that Ryan Tannehill is absolutely the man, and that anyone associated with the Dolphins absolutely better be on board with it. If you have doubts about the Ryan's leadership, then you had better help him to fix it. Orginazational statements matter with things like this. Really though, downside is Tannehill doesn’t the the next step and he is overpaid while we are looking for a qb who will. So what? It's the looking for a qb who will that is the issue there. They are damn hard to find. The search is now 2 decades long in Miami. Ryans salary won't be the issue that makes the search successful or not. Upside is the contract helps solidify Ryans role and he takes that next step, minor side bonus: he costs less.
I didn't just mention them. They are what is used as a benchmark by fans like yourself to call Tannehill anything better than good. And you guys want him to have all of them. He's great at throwing on the run. He's great at being tough. He's great shaking off bad plays.
But that is all he is right now is GOOD. He is still far away from GREAT. Your biggest problen is you attack any poster with the slightest criticism of RT17. Its like we all have to say "RT17 is the best QB in the NFL and a sure fire HoF already" to get your approval.
He has a long way to go until he is considered GREAT at throwing the deep ball. His pocket presence is pretty bad as well. Hopefully those area improve.
What is your point? Half the teams in the top four had top 10 defenses. It is what it is. Realistically, you might as well throw GB in the top 10, with a half a point difference from #10, so you have three of the top 4 with great defenses. Sitting here and whining about Tannehill is stupid. That is my point, and it gets lost in all this statistical mumbo-jumbo. Tannehill playing lights out doesn't make the defense not give up 30+ in a third of the games.
The point is exactly what you're illustrating with your information: that having one of the league's best QBs was necessary to be a top-four seed in the playoffs, but having a top-10 defense was not.
Until Tannehill proves that he can evade pressure and make throws when the OL breaks down, we will be having these same discussions, contract or no contract. I love the kid, but let's not kid ourselves. He is nowhere near elite, and franchise QB's need to be elite to garner these massive contracts. The question is, can his pocket instincts improve like the rest of his game has? Can he avoid a sack, scramble left or right, make the right read and make negative plays positive ones? That is my biggest gripe with Tannehill and something that has to get better for this team to take it to the next level. While he is far better than someone like Andy Dalton, he still hasn't proven that he can elevate above a 2nd tier QB like Dalton. I agree with people that want to see what happens in 2015 before committing to him long term. Take a flyer on someone in round 3 or 4 and see what happens.
The contract may sound massive because of the overall figure (over $100M), but it may not be so "massive" when scrutinized more carefully. For example, even just the average payout per year ($15M) is within the average range among QBs in the league, and certainly there can be other factors built into the contract that make it even less risky for the team. In the end what you could have is a contract that actually represents a steal for the team, if and when Tannehill does improve, and that gives the team at least average QB play, assuming Tannehill doesn't regress, as long as he's under it. However, I agree with "ckparrothead" that the contract should be structured such that the team can feel comfortable drafting a QB in the 1st round and having the flexibility to jettison Tannehill, assuming he doesn't improve to the level necessary to make the team highly competitive in the league. The contract shouldn't make the team feel locked on to Tannehill, because frankly if he doesn't improve, the team stands little chance of being highly competitive.
this whole argument stems from folks saying tannehill is in the same league as Wilson and some others and that the numbers won't reflect it because of inferior talent around him, then some of us coming back and saying no, individually, they're are different levels, then some folks saying but you can't prove that because the variables are different, then some saying, just watch in isolation, then some saying nope, you can't come to those conclusion..lol
yup, pretty much sums it up...we could get him good competition/backup without signing a draft pick this year..and that would be by signing tyrod taylor.
i think tannebaum is waiting and talking with john schneider on the contract parameters for wilson, I think wilson and ryan will sign deals that help their teams build around them the best way they can.
Goddammit. I'm so effing tired of that bs. I do not attack every poster that says negative things. Just stop with that lie. I'm asking for reasonable assessment. I rarely see it from the likes of you.
That's not at all what that says. For the sake of argument, three of the four had, for all intents and purposes, top ten defenses. Only one, Denver, was really out of the top ten. All it really says is that the great teams have BOTH. All while people sit and whine about Tannehill, clutching at random stats, when, in reality you need both offense and defense to win. Tannehill can make all the jumps anyone wants, but if our defense continues to be as erratic and pathetic as they've been, we're not going to contend for anything.
I know you don't bro..This topic has truly run its course.. for me the only analysis is is the game good enough to win championships..thats all..
It is good enough. We need the defense to improve. Basically, Tannehill has progressed every year. There is no objective reason to believe he won't continue to improve. Progress even more from this damn fine season I might add. The same can't be said of the defense and THAT'S why they should be the ones receiving the blame for this past season and concern for the future.
The facts are still the facts. This team has a nearly identical record with Tannehill and Henne at the helm. Identical. I'm not laying it all on Ryan, clearly the D has regressed. But great NFL QB's elevate their teams from mediocrity. Tannehill has yet to prove that he can do so.
Its a fact, but has nothing to do with anything. For example, its a fact Brady & Tannehill both like pizza....so? He has elevated the offense. Great QBs do not elevate their defenses. Henne's record was because his defense was good.
If you can't see the difference between Henne and Tannehill, then there's nothing anyone can say to you. I'll try, though...Henne was a four year college QB, and really showed no real progression in his NFL career. Tannehill had limited starts as a college QB, and has progressed nicely each season in the NFL. Did Henne ever put together as good a season as Tannehill had last season? Don't even get me started on how bad comparing win totals to determine a better QB is...
You can literally say that about 1/2 the QBs in the league. Matt Ryan is good enough. Andy Dalton is good enough. Why? Because Eli and Flacco won it all in years they played in the bottom half the league in passing. Fitzpatrick statistically had a better year than Tannehill except for number of attempts. half the league is good enough with a good enough defense. Is Tannehill good enough for when the defense isn't that great though, is the question. He shows promise. But this is the NFL. Until you do, you haven't
Our defense wasn't ranked far behind the Patriots and Green Bay on a total defense basis. And if you want to go ppg there isn't much separating us between the Packers, Cowboys, Broncos, Steelers, and Colts. 1.5 ppg defense wise. Except their QBs are pretty much elite to great. Once Tanny takes that step we're in there. We're not there yet.
Tannehill is clearly more talented than Henne. However, the team outcomes have been identical. The question is, can Tannehill carry the entire team to victory like great QB's can? That is all I'm asking. Henne showed flashes as well and I'd argue that Tannehill has flashed 10fold more talent than Henne, but when push comes to shove, the outcomes haven't been that different. Henne may throw an INT on 3rd and 10 with the game on the line, while Tannehill takes the sack. Or vice versa.
I have given reasonable assessments time and time again, but those posts from me are posts that you wont acknowledge. I have said plenty of times I believe RT17 is a good QB but needs to get better in a couple of areas and then you jump off the deep end claiming I'm saying he is the problem.
If we can improve our offensive line to somewhere even below mediocre, then I can guarantee we'll see marked improvement in his "sack avoidance" ability.
When you look at correlations with win percentage, there is only a slightly stronger correlation between QBs' DVOAs and wins than there is between defensive DVOAs and wins. But then again, that comparison involves only one player (the QB) versus 11 players on an entire side of the ball (the defense), and yet the correlation between QBs' performance and wins is stronger nonetheless. Even the correlation between QBs' DVOAs and wins, while controlling for defensive DVOAs, is stronger than the correlation between defensive DVOAs and wins, while controlling for QBs' DVOAs.
but the argument is, are the incremental improvements relatively speaking, be enough to win at the highest level..Now you can tell me that with a better line his stats will improve, and I won't argue with you, you can tell me that with a better defense our win total will improve, and I won't argue with you, but it still comes full circle for me..does he have enough game to make pivotal plays when there is chaos around him, because that is what it comes down bro, you can be a harmonious team all you want and that will get you so far, but if you wanna win championships rarely does the qb not have to be some sort of a playmaker.. now as an evaluator, i think I could build a team around him that would compete, but it would require proper utilization of his skill set that no'one seems to wanna embrace or teach, neither him or his coordinator..and thats where the 2nd argument comes from, i feel like no'one is holding him accountable enough for running with the ball on his own a little over once a game..imo, thats not utilizing your personal skill set, thats not smart football, its not winning football...dont care what stats say, or anyone else, that I know as fact, and until I see that sense , that consciousness to understand that point..then I don't believe his game as is is enough, which leads to the third argument, if ryans game stays the same and all other variable improve, would it be enough?, I say no.
How do you know the coaching staff hasnt tried? Can you teach instinct? When Tanny was facing being benched he seemed to have taken upon himself to raise his level of play... Maybe once he got comfortable he went back to what came more natural.
well, after two coordinators we still have yet to see what it is I'm looking for, so unless sherman is forcing his own teaching principles onto Lazor, its something that he's going to have to figure out on his own.
so what you're saying is that your proof of me attacking every negative post, is by showing that I don't attack your reasonable negative posts? Awesome.
He was never actually faced with being benched, despite the narrative that the national media continues to recite. Philbin is just an *** who refuses to ever say that a guy is the unquestioned starter at any position, including quarterback. That whole deal was just an example of Philbin's failure to understand and/or care about how it was all percieved, and could have been completely avoided in an instant.
jmo, but, i dont think the game has finished slowing down for him yet. For whatever reason the week your referring to it seemed to take a step in that direction and his performance improved. I think if the game does continue to slow alot of the things people are criticizing him about will become irrelevant. Its just a question of how much slower will the game get for him. Right now he is still missing things mentally. He has all the physical talent he needs. as much as i do not like philbin overall i do think he has been reasonably well acclumating RT into his position.
Point taken, but do we really want a HC who caves to media narratives? Make no mistake, if Philbin had caved and given the rah rah Ryan is our guy speech he'd have had to give it again after each shaky performance and or loss in perpetuity. Anyone paying attention and not looking to capitalize on any hint of controversy knows RTs job was never in doubt so I don't fault Philbin for sticking to his guns. After all, RT played some of his best ball after the so called snub, which is the only thing that was ever gonna kill the noise.
the funny thing is this isn't even true. http://dailydolphin.blog.palmbeachp...-pouncey-caleb-sturgis-lamar-miller-and-more/ that whole Philbin refusing to name Tannehill a starter because that's always been his policy was a load of crock, it was a complete and utter gaffe on his part.
