Bret Bielema Says Talks To Coach Phins Broke Down In 2012 Because Of Russell Wilson

But hes not coached to go through a few progressions and just take off man. You cant have a QB just disregard how hes being coached, then all the sudden he becomes "un-coachable" and that isnt in Tannehills make up. For better or worse, hes not going to disregard a head coach.

 

Really?

Obviously Im talking about while he was playing QB. But you can still see how the kids has very good athleticism, and hes being coached NOT TO USE IT. Where as Russel Wilson is being coached to utilize his strengths.

Which is better?

Right now it sure looks like Russel Wilson, but they both have long careers ahead of them. So...you cant say which is better yet.

 

I realize this, but at some point there has to be a trigger or sense...were in year 4.. He's 27... I do realize he was about as raw as it gets entering this league, but my hope is running out because he hasn't show the slightest of inclinatation that he knows where that trigger to run is, he simply does not capitalize on the athleticism he does have, nor understand that that part of the game is very important to a teams chances to win a game..it's an absolute threat to a defense and there's no excuse that it's not being taken advantage by the qb...but me and you have talked about this a lot..

 

Wilson has a HUGE head start though. And he'll probably get better (no guarantee of course).

 

OK...you tell me where that trigger point is. Your dropping back and you have what...three to four progressions to go through...one or two short and also a deep one. Your coached to go through progressions and stay in pocket long enough for them to run their routes. This takes...how long? Lets say...2 and a half seconds. How many times has Ryan been sacked inside of 2 and a half seconds?

There isnt a trigger count like you say in this offense man, their cant be.

 

Something that gets overlooked. People bring up his QB starts to defend him, but I'm on the other end. Why'd we draft and start him if he wasn't ready? The team spent two whole seasons (how many billions of team dollars and fan dollars) to get him up to speed? This has to be the year he takes another large step (those steps get harder the higher you go)

 

And, unless Im mistaken, NOBODY has said they have the same kind of lateral agility. I went so far as to compare RWs to Barry Sanders....

How is it a leg up, when hes not even being coached the same?

 

He wasnt going to start. David Garrard was supposed to be our starter, and he got hurt.

 

your off bro, there's no "buts" in our so called "camps" opinion...there are but's in your camps, therein lies the disagreement..

What were telling you and proving, is there are no but's...now if you wanna believe that with all things equal Ryan and Russell are on the same level were gonna debate it right, that's what we do..it's not personal with our own qb..

The debate is some of us think he's a great qb, yall don't..

 

"IF" I ever played sports I would know this...? Large assumption there....

And, if you want to keep over looking the fact that Mike Sherman went so far as to say he made sure to coach Tannehill NOT to break off and run...when he was here, then, dunno what to tell you man.

 

That is not true

 

Very true, the moment Ryan stepped on the field it was obvious the discrepancy of talent from that scrub Garrard.

 

Whats Yall?

He is a great QB. Not sure how many have said he wasnt. My argument has nothing to do with him being great or not. My argument is that you cant say he would have put up these kind of numbers in Miami. Hell, you tell me. What kind of QB would Russell Wilson be if he was coached NOT TO RUN?

 

You can't even acknowledge my opinion correctly because your perception of the events are so out of whack.

 

really?

Lol...Hey...I love me some Kevin White so Im just gonna step away from an argument that is going nowhere.

 

Lol..ok..you win bro. Oi.

 

that's completely at the discretion of the qb, he has to know the situation and impact, and have the sense..doesn't matter what he's taught, you can't go thru all progression with chaos going on around you..it's stupid.

 

Of course you can....thats why QBs are taught to hang in there to the last second....

 

Hanging in there til the last second is also some thing that is partly innate, but when your getting sacked at a record rate and you have wheels, then it's stupid..

 

VT, think about this and stop absolving the qb...this qb with this skillset, ran the ball on called pass plays 7 times during a 16 game season....how would you like to describe that?, and why don't you see that it's hurting us as an offense..?

 

it's in his Dna to know when to run, any coach would have to be a moron to take that away from him, besides I'm sure he understands that he needs to go thru progressions, he just also understands situational football, and gets how to use his legs in harmony with everything else, so even if a coach was saying you can't leave the pocket, he's gonna do it anyway, it's an absurd scenario.

You think he's great..why can't we leave it at that...numbers? , yes considering what he has to throw to I could see him putting up similar numbers offensively, wins I don't think so, but personal numbers, sure.

 

What evidence do we have that Tannehill was coached in this way in 2014?

 

Im not going back to dig up all the old threads where this was talked about .....

 

Good, because its being talked about in threads on a message board isn't sufficient evidence of it anyway.

 

We still had Matt Moore. Fact of the matter is, we either started a QB who wasn't ready, or not. By some arguments, we did.

 

I guess....if you were part of the conversation at the time..you would be able to refer back to it

 

A draft evaluation is a lot more nuanced than just a ranking or a score.

My evaluation put Ryan Tannehill above Russell Wilson on the basis of him being less RISKY of a prospect, not necessarily because he is the better football player. Russell Wilson was by far the better football player at Wisconsin, and I'm not even sure that's up for debate.

I had been fawning over Russell Wilson for quite a while, and penned a few positive articles on him including this bleacher report piece.

I had also been noting on guest appearances of various radio programs that Russell Wilson to me was a very boom-or-bust player. He was either going to be as good as he looks at Wisconsin, or the height was going to work against him. That was how I viewed it. Either he really is this good or when he gets to the NFL it's going to be a completely different deal and there's a reason you've never seen a guy as short as him succeed in the modern football era. To me it was going to be one or the other and I kind of doubted there'd be much in-between.

Tannehill on the other hand I viewed to be a very SAFE prospect in that with his core set of skills, his experience level in Miami's current offense, I simply could not imagine him being a bad quarterback. But I also, and I said this many times on the radio and elsewhere, had a really tough time imagining him becoming a GREAT quarterback. I could imagine Weeden being a great quarterback. I could certainly imagine Andrew Luck becoming a great quarterback. And if Russell Wilson played like he did at Wisconsin and the height just ended up being no thang, I could certainly imagine him playing like a great quarterback in the NFL (and indeed it didn't take long before I started referring to him as that during his rookie year). But Tannehill? I saw impediments to him being great.

 

If we're talking about Tannehill as a "natural" scrambler or runner or whatever then I'm going to have to step in and disagree pretty strongly.

He's a straight line runner with very little lateral agility, flexibility, etc. People keep pretending that he's bad at scrambling for positive yardage because he's been "coached to stay in the pocket"...of which there's very little to no evidence by the way...and to that I say he's also bad at it because he's just not got a lot of quick twitch, flexibility or agility to him.

The other pet peeve of mine when he was coming out was how people kept referring to him as a leading wide receiver and/or guy that might have played that in the pros. Calling BS on that. I watched his WR work. He ran like he had a 2x4 shoved up his ***.

I love the guy. I still think there's no way he could ever be a bad quarterback. That's what I thought coming out, and that's what I think now. He's got too many core skills, including his ability to throw the football on the run. That's actually where running like he's got a 2x4 shoved up his culo comes in handy because it helps him keep his shoulders square and his weight balanced while he's rolling to one side or the other, makes him ready to throw the football accurately at any time.

 

I read that in Pitbull voice.

 

Totally agree here. I mentioned this in an earlier post.

 

Wow.. Can just imagine telling a QB, "Sôn.. You can't throw on the run to save your life. But we're gonna fix that for ya. Now, it may be uncomfortable at first, but trust me kid.. This is cutting edge football science kind of stuff."

 

Why do yall think their is such a Gulf between people who like RW.. And those that don't, but guys like Aaron Rogers it's pretty much consensus he's great?

 

Took a while with Rodgers. Three years after entering the league a bunch of people thought the Packers finally got it right by drafting Brian Brohm in the 2nd round.

 

And those 52 scrambles for 505 yards are 52 less plays that Wilson has to worry about forcing a throw on and risking an INT, unlike most other QBs. That's why Seattle's offense ranks 3rd in giveaways. Russell plays smart. He converts risky pass attempts into efficient running ones, which is why we don't see him posting gaudy passing yardage stats. He has just 1 measly turnover in 308 career carries, including scrambles.

Here's some perspective:
[TABLE="class: grid, width: 820"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Total '14 Offensive
Contribution[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]attempts[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]yards[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]avg[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]turnovers[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]TD[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]TD%[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]TD/turnover
ratio[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1st Downs[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1st Down%[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20+
yards[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]40+
yards[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Wilson[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]570[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]4341[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]7.6[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]26[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]4.6%[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3.7[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]204[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]36%[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]60[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]11[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Rivers[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]607[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]4388[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]7.2[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]31[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]5.1%[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1.6[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]213[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]35%[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]57[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Brady[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]639[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]4166[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6.5[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]12[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]33[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]5.2%[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2.8[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]231[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]36%[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]44[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Stafford[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]645[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]4350[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6.7[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]15[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]24[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3.7%[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1.6[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]217[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]34%[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]53[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]11[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Look at how Wilson barely takes a hit to his stats, if at all, in order to keep his turnovers at a silly total of 7.
*** keep in mind Wilson had no redzone weapons to take advantage of [no Gronk, no Calvin, no Gates] and no studs between the 20's to help move the chains and boost his yardage stats [no Gronk & Edelman, no Calvin & Tate, no solid overall quartet of Keenan Allen, Gates, Royal, and Floyd]

 

Rodgers can do whatever either of them can do (RW is better at scrambling maybe, but otherwise..), and those who look at the difference in systems (Miami vs Seattle) would probably argue Rodgers would excel in both.