Bret Bielema Says Talks To Coach Phins Broke Down In 2012 Because Of Russell Wilson

Sure, that's a valid point. But, when you have a defense built the way Seattle's is, you don't need to invest in those other areas as heavily. In fact, if you had to invest more in those areas, your defense would probably struggle, because they couldn't invest as much there, so the end results might change.

Just saying, I'd love to see Tannehill have a defense that two years running held opponents to the fewest points per game in the league.

 

Ever heard of Title IX??

 

I do think Wilson is a top ten QB but overall I think you're spot on. He has some glaring weaknesses that opposing teams can't attack bc of the team and coaching staff he has around him. So while I give him his props I'm not blind to the big picture.

 

Thats such a ridiculous statement. Don't believe me? Try applying it to other positions and players. Doug Baldwin has back to back Super Bowls, so clearly he's better than Megatron, who's never won playoff game. Lol.

 

Sure. And we're seeing him there because his defense held GB in check while he was playing like Tim Tebow. I'm just saying, the two things aren't separate. Their defense is just as much a reason (some might argue more) that they have gone to back to back Super Bowls, as he is.

 

utterly meaningless. guess wilson is better than marino too

 

I just love this debate because it boils down to:

1. Stats are invalid
2. Winning is invalid
3. Championships are invalid
4. Film is invalid

My opinion trumps all of these.

 

yeah i have about 15 QBs I would prefer but a few are on their last legs and a few others are debatable as to whether they are equal to him or better or worse. basically my biggest problem with him is he still cant read defenses pre snap well and he still doesnt go through his progressions before running, even when the pocket doesnt break down. this is year three. i was very high on him year one and every year i sour on him more and more because he's becoming this generation's michael vick imo by not progressing. basically i think he hit his ceiling. granted it hasnt hurt him but i think its going to catch up to him quickly

 

film is the only one i think is valid. the rest have too many other variables involved with them to make them more than supporting arguments rather than primary arguments

 

And if he wasn't drafted the same year as Tannehill, two rounds later, no one would care.

 

And yet people disagree about the film. Why?

 

true which is the second reason i hope they win. that team the way it is set up contractually is going to be a force for the next five years at least. i want him eating up as much of the cap space as he can get away with so that team can face some competition over those five years

 

Agreed. QB is by far the most important position. But it's still only about (ballpark) 20% of the equation. Let me ask you this, and much respect for starting a great thread BTW, how many QBs other than Wilson do you think could have gotten Seattle to the Super Bowl this year?

 

There is a reason statistical sites put win/loss records next to QBs and no other players. You don't think its a valid stat? Fine. But I think you and others would change your tune if Tannehill was the one with the 36-12 record.

It reminds me of the debates from last season: "passer rating means nothing, its a team stat!!!" Well, now that Tannehill has a decent passer rating its totally fine to cite it as one of his individual accomplishments.

 

About a dozen different ones.

 

I don't speak for fans in general but FTR let me say I like RW as a player and even more as a person. I have no bias vs him, I actually think some of the more outspoken RW supporters are the ones who are biased. In the sense that they underestimate how good Seattle is as a whole. Their D and ST are hands down the best in the league, their running game is among the best. Those are huge factors. We all saw the 09-10 Jets nearly make the Super Bowl, dispatching the Brady led Pats and Manning led Colts in the process, with Mark friggin Sanchez playing QB.

 

I meant to include Manning there so that's 7.

 

i think people in general (not scouts) view a successful play as automatically being a good play by a qb and a negative play being necessarily a bad play by a qb. way too simplistic imo. when i look at qbs i periodically have a positive grade on a negative play and a negative grade on a positive play.

 

we will see how the patriots defense plays him. from what i have seen of wilson if you play with seven or eight in coverage and just send a minimum rush with a speedy LB or S spying him he becomes completely ineffectual. he needs eight men in a box to be effective. also i think he has trouble vs cover 2 and zone. i would stay away from man coverage where backs are turned to the line of scrimmage

having him 8th or so is fine. i would defeinitely take rivers and eli over him but the gap between skill shrinks as we go up the ladder. someone like stafford, i might prefer but it would be reasonable to argue that wilson is better. not by much either way. its close but one's preference for style or skill set could have either as the preferred. now when people have him in the top five that to me is just ludicrous just due to the fact that there is such an apparent gap in skill set that it makes me question the judgement of the person

 

With that defense though they'd save Peyton from choking.

 

"Who you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?"

 

When Tannehill increases his overall rating like 15 points, but the team doesn't win more, what do you think that means? Further, who said passer rating was meaningless? What was said was that passer rating isn't solely dependent on the QB. For example, the QB can throw a perfect pass, and the receiver could drop it. That negatively affects rating, even though the QB did nothing wrong. I think you are, intentionally or not, misrepresenting discussions that have been had about rating.

 

Did anybody ever claim Sanchez deserved to be the highest paid player in the league? Or even named a top 10 QB for that matter? I think you're underestimating other peoples ability to discern great QB play from poor QB play despite said QBs having great teams around them.

 

i will add one question. will you have russell wilson above eli manning if the patriots get their 4th ring today? eli helped save the perfect season and just for an encore helped beat them down a second time.

 

That's largely because we hated him as he was on the Jets. I also didn't see anyone crowning Sanchez king because the team made the playoffs on the backs of a good defense and running game. For some reason, Wilson supporters don't want to acknowledge what a support those two things are for him. If their running game wasn't so effective, how do you think that would affect defenses in how they play for Wilson to run? If Seattle wasn't holding opponents to league lows for points, how would it affect Wilson to have to score more than 20? This season, Wilson and the Seahawks only won one game where the opponent scored over 20 points.

 

he has a bit of a choke around him but it's not as bad as people make it out. i think it was during the super bowl years that the patriots when playing the colts would purposely grab the colts receivers in the playoff games and hold them so they couldnt get open daring the refs to throw flags. and of course the refs didnt. its because of those playoff games that the rules were enforced more strictly afterwards. just another example of patriots cheating

 

The Dolphins also only won one game where opponents scored more than 20...difference is, Dolphins opponents scored over 20 a whole lot.

 

exactly. think about it. you can get the championship game with this type of team and a backup QB. Wilson being better than sanchez allows you to take that next step and win those final two games. there are probably twenty QBs if not more that could do the same

 

I'm not going to speak for others but Sanchez's stats weren't even average, they were below average. Almost terrible even. Predictably, that was a stupid extension. Wilson's passing stats on the other hand indicate he's elite. You can continue to pretend that we're all simply blinded by the win/loss record but that's not true.

 

he loses patience. gets too emotional. i agree. i think his brother actually has a much better emotional state for the big games than peyton

 

I would add Newton, Ryan, Romo, Eli, Stafford, CKap, and Tannehill. Plus Peyton, I think his body falls apart as he's throwing for 5000 yards per season. If he could throw 25-26 times per game, which he could do in Seattle, he'd be much fresher come playoff time.

 

No doubt. RW is superior in every way. My point is that when you can run, play D and ST the way Seattle does, an average QB is about all you need to contend for championships.