Mike Wallace's Effect on Ryan Tannehill's Downfield Passing

Wallace has proven he can be a downfield threat. Tannehill has never proven he can perform at a level that Big Ben can. Sure Wallace/Ben had a down year under the first year with Haley, but that's also the year Ben was talking mad smack about Haley's system (dink and dunk and not in a good way).Big Ben and Antonio Brown and even Martavius Bryant have sorted those issues out in subsequent years. Notice Brown's ypc was at 16 in his breakout year under Arians and dropped to 12 under Haley's first year, and now has gone back up a little.

What did Lazor say earlier this year? They've gone to dink and dunk because they are going to limit things Tannehill doesn't do well. Pretty simple really. Wallace is not an A-List wide receiver, we all know that. He's no AJ/Dez/Julio/Calvin. But he is what he is. He's diversified himself. Nobody can legitimately call him a one trick pony.

But man, don't we wish he could still execute that one trick now?

 

The longer Wallace sticks around and the more Tannehill improves, the better their connection on the field will become in my opinion.

 

Oh I'll show you some balls alright

 

What evidence I've been shown is debatable, and it most certainly hasn't come from you.

The 20+ yards in the air thing is pretty much the universal measure, and I'm not sure who cooked up the idea of it involving QB drop depth or why you think that's somehow something that makes sense. The line of scrimmage is the basis for comparison on that, every single yardage-based statistic out there.

 

I'm fairly certain this exact scenario just happened. Mike Wallace threw a **** fit because of course he did and Brian Hartline stepped into his role and was immediately productive.

First of all, you keep bringing up a safety over the top like it's a special coverage. Stop. It's not, and you should know better.

Secondly, it's been a very long time since Wallace saw anything regarding special coverage. He's not being double teamed.

I'm not sure what you're pretending is occurring with those charts, either.

 

Then debate it, and stop letting me under your skin. And universal for who?? 20 yards is not a deep ball imo, and certainly not the type of throw that's been argued the past year and a half around here.

 

Your opinion is irrelevant. Elias Sports Bureau? 20+ yards. Pro Football Focus? 20+ yards. Stats Inc.? 20+ yards, and the occasional 25+ yards for some statistics.

And you've got a long way to go to become relevant before you get under anyone's skin.

 

For being so irrelevant you sure do like to respond to me, appears I'm very relevant to you statistically. You borderline stalk me of late, yet you scream I'm irrelevant.

You have a man crush on me dude, admidt it.

 

I became convinced that TooGoodForDez was a parody account and LBsFinest doesn't post as much, so you're now the guy whose posts are so bad you get the same effect as driving by a car accident.

You care to get back on topic, or are you just going to wait for someone who has an idea what they're talking about for you to resume cheer-leading?

 

Lol, nice excuse.

And I have no desire to google stats to prove what is common sense to most, that's a you problem. And when someone does take the time to draw it in crayon for you??? You reply "that's debatable". Nice counter, way to contribute.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X9E9n6GHC8

What exactly are you alluding is going to happen here? Are you suddenly going to jump up and have some sort of incredibly insightful answer on how a man coverage corner and a deep half safety constitutes extraordinary attempt to Wallace that opens up underneath? That's got about as much chance of happening as me successfully teaching my dog a card trick, but give it a shot. The conversation's right here, feel free to do something, anything of value.

 

Not sure you wanna go there, ive actually played sports. And I can explain that coverage to you all day long, I also can tell you that he sees his share of HIGH Saftey coverages that open up a lot of things underneath. I know this because I watch every single snap and I actually know what I'm watching. Do you?? I guess...I mean you do have 10k hours staring at a desktop.

 

So the reason this forum has been subjected to a posting history roughly equivalent to watching someone try to start a fire with two wet potatoes is what, exactly? The brilliance of you posting like you had an idea what was going on would be too problematic for people to handle?

****, I'm really having second thoughts here. Maybe you ought to stick to rehashing middle school level dick jokes.

 

Again, when it comes to such a blatantly obvious topic...I don't feel the need to go too far in depth. Like I said, you shun the posters who HAVE taken the time to explain to you and others the basics. What's the point?

 

I've had plenty of discussions with those posters and they're free to bring up any point they find I've poorly addressed. You're basically hiding behind their skirts and then picking out easy, non-technical things to float(20+ yards isn't deep!) and doing a bad job even with that.

It's ultimately a moot point. If Wallace's performances won't have him out the door, his **** attitude will.

 

I'll say it again incase it finds its way to your brain....

I have zero desire to put together some presentation to win anyone over when it comes to such an obvious topic. I could misconstrue stats in a small thesis that claims Jay Fiedler is a better QB than Ryan Tannehill. Would you set out on some mission of googling even more stats to prove me wrong?? Or would you simply laugh at me for claiming something so incredibly stupid and just comment?

Because that's how I feel about the statement that Brian Hartline is a better deep threat to than Mike Wallace.

 

Excellent point.

 

Pete has been touting the Hartline is a better deep threat for a long time...so yes that's what I was referring too. Fortunately, he is kind of alone with that statement, unless you factor in his lone fanboy thanking every post.

 

This thread is one of my all time favorites


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Yes 20+ yards has been established as a deep pass for stats keep purposes. But just as a 6 inch pass is not the same as a 10 yard pass, a 20 yard hitch route is not the same as a go route with the ball connecting 40 yards down the field. And that's essentially the difference between a Hartline and Wallace really.

 

The Mike Wallace effect on Tannehill's downfield passing is simple:
Once Tannehill finally gets his deep ball issues under wraps, he'll have an open receiver to complete them to. /end thread

 

3 of those "six such receptions" were in the Arizona game alone, where he posted an absolutely absurd 12 rec for 253 yards. Take that one game with the 3 receptions (including the disgustingly blown coverage by the Cards), and his entire season is "meh" in regards to your deep yardage stats. And either way, even if Hartline had "success" deep in 2012 under a different coordinator and different offense, it has no bearing on right now. Just because we were STUCK with him as a 'deep threat' ringer due to a horrid WR corps, and he had a super inflated stat game in AZ, doesn't justify him as being a legitimate deep threat. The side by side numbers of Hartline's stats per year show 2012 as an anomaly, and that anomaly can easily be traced back to solely just the crazy AZ game.

Borrowing from keithjackson:

Mike Wallace beyond 20+ yards:
2014: 4 receptions/ 157 total yards, 1 TD, (2 receptions 40+) (so far)
2013: 6/261, 1 TD, (3)
2012: 4/241, 4 TD, (3)
2011: 8/456, 5 TD, (5)
2010: 14/561, 7 TD, (6)
2009: 12/453, 6 TD, (5)

Brian Hartline:
2014: 1/35, 0 TD, (0)
2013: 3/102, 2 TDs, (0)
2012: 10/400, 1 TD, (0)
2011: 7/138, 0 TD, (0)
2010: 2/88, 0 TD, (1)
2009: 2/96, 0 TD, (1)

 

Now it's 'regardless' ? You seemed pretty damn adamant about it being Brian Hartline on the first several pages.

edit : He was the primary basis for your argument when you were using a season that is pretty much an anomaly stat-wise because of 1 hyper inflated game. So it's a bit shallow in that regard, since I had said earlier, We know it's no secret there is a disconnect between the 2 of MW and RTH. Either way. Yeah.

 

and how about Hartline's other 5 years? There's a thing called sample size my friend, and you're not adhering to a worthwhile one.

BTW, I'd love to see you try to stumble through your Hartline argument if he actually had safeties cognizant of his presence like Wallace does EVERY SINGLE SNAP. You're borderline trolling. You saw what happened to the offense when Hartline was given Wallace's X role in the 2nd half of the Jets game, and it wasn't pretty. NY teed off with 5 man pressure b/c they could totally rearrange their cover with Wallace off the field. Just give up already. Waive the white flag.

 

One sec, my otolaryngologist is on the other line. Nope, he says my ears are good.

 

It is pathetic that Wallace only had one catch over 25 yards......

Hopefully Ryan gets that fixed this offseason.

 

Who cares what Tannehill did 3 years ago with a receiver he never threw real NFL go-route too, a receiver who never faced, nor will ever face, the same coverage downfield that Wallace does?

The only reason Hartline had those catches that you speak of in the first place is because the coverage either f***ed up or made it easier for him b/c they had greater priorities than worry about the nonthreatening 39 catch, 474 yard, 2 TD guy who had no business as a #1 WR. Defenses LET Hartline have 1000 yards. Get that through your melon, dude. THEY.LET.HIM!!!

 

I cringe when I watch other teams, even college teams hit open WRs deep and we have one of the best in the league at putting himself in position for big plays.

I've been saying this for two years now and I still believe that Ryan struggles leading WRs and has poor touch on deep throws. We have seen Mike beat DBs deep Atleast 10 times now....and about a month ago is the first time I thought he made a good throw on such plays (NE game).

If Ryan doesn't get better at these chunk yardage passes we may aswell sign 4 Cole Beasley's to play WR....because we are wasting Wallace.

 

That's utter bull****. Wallace gets open deep more than 99% of the league. Those are OPPORTUNITIES, and those opportunities are so valuable that Miami paid $60 million for his services, so valuable that Pitt had Antonio Brown and still tried to keep Wallace for $50 million. It is NOT a Wallace issue. It is a TANNEHILL issue.

Anyone with a fair pair of eyes can see that Tannehill has problems with his deep ball. DEEP BALL. Not this 20+ yard nonsense that you try to obfuscate the issue with. His mechanics were terrible in this regard last year which is why it was a priority for him to work on it this offseason. Now, the mechanics have improved some, but the touch is still terrible. He's far too tight, like he's trying to force it or muscle it, which is the last thing a guy with a cannon arm should be doing. Maybe he needs to smoke a joint or something before his deep ball practice sessions so that he loosens the hell up some to get a little more whip in the arm and flick of the wrist so that he's not putting everything on such a shallow trajectory that leaves Wallace little time to run under it. This is why Lazor has reduced the emphasis on the deep ball and why Tannehill is still too hesitant to throw it. It's certainly NOT because of an inability to get open by Wallace.

 

Sorry but there's no "agree to disagree". There's you're wrong on this issue and I'm right, and that's it. Nobody, NOBODY on this planet other than Hartline, his family, wife, wife's family, best friend, bookie, mistress, illegitimate kids, and agent should be arguing that Hartline should be Miami's primary downfield target, and even they know it's wrong. So which one are you? If you're his bookie, I'd like to place a bet. I bet he never becomes a primary downfield receiver for any team in the NFL for as long as he plays.

 

Bill Lazor all but said Tanny is not good with deep passes. He says he scaled back the playbook to what Tanny excels at. The result was one of the lowest YPAs in the league and turning a Ferrari into a Volvo.

Tanny has all the arm strength in the world but his anticipation and judgment of Wallace's speed is terrible. They've scaled back to the offense to take away the inconsistent deep ball, and with it the quick strike. When you have a premiere quick strike wr on the team.

Coaches have came out and called the deep ball issues, Tanny issues. What more do we need to see here.