yes, they will dispose of what is useless, and use their inside info and intuition to determine whether they want to invest and match up against Mariota. Autograph stuff is useless..crab leg stuff useless..rape allegations..notsofast, general attitude and self entitlement tendencies, notsofast..maybe there is more redflags than you think.
He's been doing that for two years..his vision of the field is clear and broad..and from what he's put on tape folks should be able to project that what he just did in that video is inevitable. Folks who say he won't be able to run against nfl players like he does in college, don't agree, his speed is true..have never seen a man this size this fast and precise at the position.."Maserati speed". Best dual threat prospect ever... And he's doing it with a lot less talent next to him than Winston..
It will be fun for us to play matchup, but nfl evaluators won't care, the game will just add to their homework and whoever wins, won't affect their decision on who they want.
Full credit to TedSlimmJr of FH for this, but he really does echo exactly what I'm thinking when it comes to Jameis Winston:
That's if you believe there is anything to it. I think the preponderance of evidence shows there really is not anything there that translates into future problems. As for his being self-entitled or presenting an attitude that causes friction in a football environment, those are absolutely relevant to the quality of football asset he represents. However, they're not things we can speak to. Otherwise I agree that the autograph stuff is useless distraction. I personally believe the meme shouting thing at the union is nothing but a useless and stupid distraction that far too many are making a thing about. The crab leg stuff is also useless distraction IF it's true that it was merely a case of some Publix managers being in on a FSU player hook-up whereas others weren't in on it, and a misunderstanding resulted. If that's not true, then there's a problem. If it had nothing to do with hook-ups and he just walked in there, grabbed crab legs, then walked out...then we have some serious issues with respect to self-entitlement, the kind that absolutely will translate to his coach-player and teammate-player relationships. But I'm not in position to know one way or another on that. I just know what is circulating privately (off the record) among media types about that incident. All I'm saying is there are a lot of smart football guys that are good at weeding through what's actually an issue and what's not really an issue. And a big part of that is looking at the guy's film study, practice habits, dedication to the details of the position, etc. Those all represent the difference between a Jameis Winston and a Johnny Manziel...and ultimately it's why Manziel is sitting on the bench while Brian Hoyer earns his money. Manziel had every opportunity to earn that job before Hoyer could throw a single meaningful regular season pass. He blew it.
Personally no I don't think Marcus Mariota has been making throws like that all that often. There was a different quality to that throw and that play compared with what I've generally seen out of Mariota. I'm just calling it like I see it, that was a hell of a play. But a lot of other stuff I see with him, it's like he starts with 1st & 5 instead of 1st & 10, and then when he does get put into a difficult situation he just doesn't come through. I've never said he was a BAD prospect. But you're talking about accolades like being a #1 overall, the best dual threat quarterback prospect ever, etc.
I There's so much here that I disagree with. 1) That scramble from pressure,while eyes stayed downfield and throw, is COMPLETELY in his DNA and exactly predictable of what his skill set and ceiling has to offer..it's always been there, and are reasons why I talk as highly as I do...because you can't project it, means just that, in this case you can't project the ceiling if that play is shocking to you.
It's not the first or third time he's done it like that. I'm just saying he doesn't do it like that as much as you're letting on. He misses a lot of those throws, or he's out there scrambling with no pressure because he saw ghosts.
The point is the ceiling..projecting what he could be, that's what we do in the draft, that's how we assess value and grade, that's a glimpse, I've seen him do those things multiple times.. Do you take into account this dudes age.? When you have that kind of special talent, and you match it with good character, and seemingly relentless work ethic, it's nice.
I have an issue with the age argument. I think there are some things it pertains to and then there are some things it's really hard to use age as a significant argument. Once upon a time Amobi Okoye was supposed to have an incredibly high ceiling because of how good he was at such a young age coming out. That didn't work out because though good players get better with age and experience, age isn't a good indicator of where a guy will end up. Could be up, could be down, could be the same, etc. On the other hand when the primary argument against a prospect are the childish hijinks he keeps getting himself involved in, the fact that he's only barely 20 years old factors into THAT particular evaluation heavily...because age is absolutely known to increase a person's maturity level almost as good as clockwork.
aside from the stupid things he's done that are on the record, are you ok with his personality? Did you happen to see how he and fisher were talking on the field pregame before the Clemson game where he had to sit out...he was like a 10 year old child CK.. Do you remember anything last year that made you think douchebag before the title game,? This is someone who does not understand the word humility..are you ok with that, does that not raise a red flag for you if the person your going to draft does not understand humility or any type of class?
How was he acting like a 10 year old? This is the exact crap that makes you Jameis haters look pathetic.
1. There are and have been a lot of GREAT (not good, GREAT) quarterbacks in the NFL that come off to a ton of people as complete and utter a--holes that don't understand the meaning of the word "humble". Hell, our own Dan Marino is one of them. Tom Brady, Jay Cutler, Ben Roethlisberger, they're all complete jerks. There are a hell of a lot of signs that Aaron Rodgers is a complete jerk and he's all but admitted that when he came into the league he was way worse. A lot of his teammates, especially guys that catch the ball from him, keep going out of their way to tell people he's a jerk and not a good leader. 2. You're reading too much into some of these exchanges, and you're also kind of refusing to place them within a larger context. The pre-Clemson game was a simple misunderstanding. Jameis Winston's pads were all laid out for him in his locker. It is FSU's practice that when a player is not supposed to dress for the game, his pads are not there. Just a few weeks prior, a similar thing happened where a player was suspended for the game and his pads got laid out anyway so he came out dressed. And that guy stayed dressed the whole game if I'm not mistaken, nobody even noticed or cared. But Jimbo obviously is going to notice when Jameis Winston is dressed even when he's not supposed to be and so that's why you saw the exchange. Jameis was upset because he didn't think he did anything wrong, and he was right. Jimbo apologized to him for that later on. There was nothing over the top AT ALL about Jameis Winston's reaction during that conversation. And during halftime, with the team down 10-3 and with McGuire playing TERRIBLE football, Jameis asked Jimbo if he could address the locker room. Jimbo gave him permission, and so Jameis did that, and there are a lot of players that still credit Jameis' leadership for helping them get through that game. That's the context you're not seeing when you isolate snapshots and then read into them to the Nth degree. You're complaining about an exchange with a coach that he loves and that loves him, and you're pretending the guy is a complete a--hole despite everyone on team constantly referring to him as their leader.
Karlos Williams on Jameis Winston: Sean Maguire on Winston after the game: Ronald Darby: Man, what a prick, right?
Tre Jackson on Jameis Winston after the Notre Dame win: This Jameis Winston guy...what a dick, right?
Basically what you have I think is a few childish antics from Jameis Winston distracting people from seeing the truth which is that Winston is a much more naturally vocal and effective leader in the locker room than Marcus Mariota.
I am far from a scout and never claimed to be one but I watch alot of football and am generally spot on about my thoughts about who will be good at the nect level coming out of College but on the FOOTBALL field there is NO WAY that Marriotta will ever be in Jamies Winston's league. Miami has to draft a QB nect year and we need to draft an NFL READY QB andit is my hope that Winston keeps falling because of character issues off the field in which I am not happy about. I want him to Fall all the way down to Miami's pick just like Marino did when he had "off the field character issues." Now if it gets proven that he raped the girl, then I definitely change my mind. If Tanny keeps playing like he has of recent then I know we have our QB of the future but we still need an NFL ready backup in case of (god forbid) injury. Please in any case do not let the Jets draft Winston! I can also see Marriotta as a capable backup to Tanny became we are geared more read option and I also think Rakeem Cato would work in our system.
I acknowledge that there is something about this guy that his teammates gravitate towards, I just know what I have witnessed, that I don't like it, and I don't know if I trust it to be good for a pro team long term.. I also admit that this dude talent is the real deal, and Im not saying he will be a bust, what I am saying is if I have my choice Im taking mariota. Basically the thread is not to say winston won't be successful, its to show folks who are and have completely underrated mariota from the early stages to now, that Mariota is gonna go very early in the draft this year, and the same would of happened if he came out last year.. so while you might have me at check on winston, I also have you in check on mariota.
my hater in this case is well deserved no? not hating his game on the field mind you, you have not seen a word of me talking about or criticizing his game on the field. obviously your a seminole fan so discussing what a douchbag your qb is is not going to come across very well.
so you would like mariota to be our backup? lol...me too..unfortuntely unless your willing to move up to the first two picks, it aint gonna happen.
I know you're really emphatic that Mariota will be good. I'm just not there on the football evaluation. I think we can agree that the football evaluation for Winston is awesome and then we just disagree on the off field and character stuff. But the football evaluation on Mariota is exactly what I'm not sure about yet. I'll say this, he's improved this year.
This reminds me a lot of Colin Kaepernick though. Both are guys I have GOOD evaluations on, but not GREAT evaluations on. Both were guys that I thought kind of played in the shadow of someone better, Kaepernick with Cam Newton and Mariota with Jameis Winston. Both are guys that everything I've seen points to them being genuinely good souls but that are both shy and maybe not quite as comfortable being the center of attention or the leader of the team as some others. They both have hella speed and the ability to complete passes to anywhere on the field. They also both have issues in more advanced areas of the quarterbacking game. They're both going to hurt defenses. And ultimately, either could probably win a championship with the right cast and coaching. But will either player always have their team playing well regardless of what else is happening above or beside them? Can either of them line up on Sunday and win the game because they're just the better quarterback compared with Joe Flacco, Ryan Tannehill, Jay Cutler, Tony Romo, Matt Stafford, Matt Ryan, Eli Manning, Nick Foles, Cam Newton, Alex Smith, Carson Palmer or Andy Dalton? What about Russell Wilson, Ben Roethlisberger, Phil Rivers, Andrew Luck, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers? This quarterback field is becoming CROWDED. We're on some sort of cyclical upswing because there didn't used to be that many good players at the position. Nowadays you've even got guys like Brian Hoyer and Austin Davis playing well. Ryan Fitzpatrick and Kyle Orton are winning games, and you've got young wannabes likes Derek Carr, Teddy Bridgewater and Blake Bortles lurking. And now comes a fresh new class with guys we know have the skill set to play like Mariota, Winston and Hundley. Toss in the guys that aren't getting the credit they should such as Rakeem Cato (whom I think we both agree on), Cody Fajardo and Shane Carden... At some point we've got to start wondering if "good" is the enemy of "great" when it comes to the quarterback game. Because that ENTIRE crowd are being paid like they're great. Look at the contracts for guys like Colin Kaepernick, Andy Dalton and Alex Smith. They're not that different from the ones for Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers. If Miami exercises the final year of Tannehill's deal, he too will (at least for one year) be paid pretty similarly to those elites. Considering how awash we are in quarterbacks nowadays one does wonder if some team is going to come along and so long as they have an advanced system, really good players throughout the roster and stable coaching...start winning big with a "next man up" policy at the quarterback position to where the most important thing for them is that they get quarterbacks that they know can do X, Y and Z. I think this is ultimately what Harbaugh would have preferred in San Fran and my feeling is that Chip Kelly doesn't mind this approach either, and Gus Malzahn may prefer it that way as well.
You guys see the probably bogus report about point shaving lol. Is he getting the Newton treatment now
Alabama, in my opinion, embodies this. I've kicked the idea around in my head before about cycling QB's. If you look at their win loss records and statistics, almost every Alabama QB could be mistaken for the other going back to Saban's arrival.
I immediately thought of a witch hunt as soon as I read the story. Cam is an excellent comparison. It became fashionable to have an accusation against him near the end of his college career. Media outlets know they'd get drowned out by printing a positive story. I believe it was Paul Burmeister who seemed personally offended that ck would suggest that Ryan Mallet wasn't Satan.
Except in Alabama's case it isn't a matter of resource scarcity. It's just a matter of recruiting. Nothing has prevented Alabama from recruiting a quarterback that has legit top level talent and ends up a great NFL prospect. Quite the opposite, they have a lot of pull with recruits and I'm sure a lot of potentially good QBs could've committed to Alabama if they went after them hard enough. In the NFL you have resource scarcity. You only get one 1st round pick per year. You have a salary cap to deal with.
We should have a counter that tallies up the days since we've seen a single negative thing written about Ryan Mallett's work ethic, body language, demeanor, etc. Came into the NFL, has worked hard, kept his mouth shut even while he sat the bench, made it through a trade from one team to another and still hasn't said anything that could be construed negatively. I think some people should be quite embarrassed about the way they went after him from a character standpoint when he was coming out of college.
I went after him a bit, (his gym habits especially, the way he took care of his body, smoking and sh##, and the way I saw him act when black players We're around) rbut I also didn't think his game was first round worthy.. I'm not embarrassed, but He's been a good boy relatively speaking...however, they traded him so who knows what's going on there.
Can someone tell me why we keep hearing this noise on Winston. I don't think he's making great off field decisions... But this is getting borderline stupid. I have a feeling of he farted in class they would report it now. They need to back off of him. TMZ are hacks.
I mean if you're familiar with sports narratives then it's not really surprising. The narrative begins to write itself. It was the same way with Cam Newton and it was the same with Ryan Mallett. In both cases they proved to be ridiculously off-base.
I don't mind criticisms of Mallett's gym work. If people prefer a bodybuilder like Brady Quinn that's fine. At least it was accurate that Mallett wasn't a big time gym guy. But I stand by the fact that there are a lot of people that should be embarrassed for themselves over the way they went after his character considering his conduct in the pros, which has been spotless.
noone wants their qb to be a body builder, your exaggerating to make your point, just show you care about the little things when there is an obvious spotlight on you, show you have awareness that your a prospect to be an nfl player.. The point of that being a red flag for me was because this was a player that needed as much quickness in his body to help his biggest weakness and that was a lack of quickness in the pocket and a lack of mobility..being in great shape and having some muscular development would of helped in those regards..when there is a complete disregard for the education and training of your body, If Im a Gm I don't draft players like that..
I mean it goes without saying you'd have missed out on Tom Brady and a host of other good quarterbacks that way, but to each their own. I don't think it matters that much. I care more about what I see in their game that tells me whether they care about and have studied the details of their position.
Just from some cursery reading online..QBs should focus on Core and Hips...some shoulder work..working with stretch bands and kettle balls..its actually very similar to the workout Pitchers do
Not necessarily, your generalizing my assessment of Ryan mallet, he wasn't just skinny, he was badly out of condition. And of course I care more about the game,that goes without saying, but if a dude is that lazy and unprepared then it's a legit red flag.
You don't think I know that? I would not have my Qb do much in the traditional muscle building exercises you may be thinking about ..Its all about specific exercises relative to their positions responsibilities.. Think like a golfer, would a I have him doing 4 sets of bench press 4 sets of flys?... No, flexibility would be prioritized with trunk and core development. I saw what I needed to see from Ryan when he was coming out, there was serious neglect..shouldn't be the case when you have a spotlight on you and your biggest weakness is quickness.
