Rockets won the first title in the 93/94 season, there have been 21 seasons since then including that one.
You guys won your last title before Riley got here. Riley has been here for 19 years. Int he last 20 years, it is Rockets 1 title, Heat 3. If you really want to see a real comparison, lets do it since Riley has been here.
Only the Spurs and Lakers have won more games than Miami since Riley got here. Only the Spurs have a better win% in the playoffs.
Houston last won a championship in 1995. They were relevant then but since then they've been irrelevant. Since 1995 the Rockets have made the playoffs 12 of 19 years and advanced past the first round three times. Since 1995 the Heat have made the playoffs 16 of the last 19 years and have three championships and five finals appearances. They advanced past the first round 9 of those years. Prior to 1995 the Heat were irrelevant much like Houston has been since 1995. There is no comparison between to two franchises in terms of success since 1995. And the hating has been pretty obvious since Riley joined the Heat. I do live outside of Miami and the team is polarizing. Whenever you have such a team you'll get a ton of hate. The Cowboys and the Yankees are two examples of teams which are always at the top of the lists for most popular and most hated. The Heat has become far more popular and more hated since Riley and the winning made them relevant.
Say it has been 21...The point still stands. Take away Lebron's 4 years and what you are left with is 1 chip. Again, if there is any hate of the Heat, i think you're feeling the wrath of Lebron's haters. I don't recall very many people hating or being fans of the Miami Heat before he came.
Take away the Lebron years (since he has nothing to do with the Heat's relevancy), and what do the stats show? Just curious.
Okay..fine. I'll take away the years Lebron was here when you take away the years Olajuwon was in Houston. Jeez. Breaking News: Those Years exist and count.
I'd agree with the Cowboys and Yankees being the most hated. I would also include the Lakers and the Celtics. The Bulls were there, but not anymore. I wouldn't put the Heat anywhere near those teams. Those teams have national fan bases and national haters because of their rich histories. Miami doesn't have a rich history. Miami hasn't become relevant until recently. It's all about the chips. Winning seasons are fine, but if you're not holding that trophy, it doesn't count. I don't understand how some of you all think Miami has been hated nationally for such a long time when they haven't started winning anything until recently. What is the biggest reason they've been winning recently...Lebron. Take Lebron out of the equation and I just don't see the Heat being relevant enough to be hated on.
lol. I'm not trying to be a dick. I'm just reiterating my point. Lebron is the cause of the hate you are feeling. The Heat aren't hated. The man is. Do you think the media will be talking about the Heat as much next season now that he's gone? If the media doesn't talk about them, why would they receive national hate?
Take away the 1980's and 1990's and the 49ers are one ****ty franchise. Truth be told..if you chopped off Adrian Peterson's legs he would be one pretty crappy runningback.
They would have made the playoffs 11 of 15 years and had one championship. They also won about 55% of their games excluding the Lebron years. That percentage would still have Miami among the top 5 in league history without of course excluding 4 successful years from all the other teams. (I imagine it'd be difficult to subtract four arbitrary years out of each team's records to answer your question in terms of which teams won the most games). It's not the Lebron has nothing to do with the Heat's relevancy, it's that they were clearly winning and relevant before he got here and will continue to be after he's gone.
The reason is Riley. He's always been a polarizing character even when he was with the Lakers. That didn't change when he came to Miami. Riley made them successful and relevant. You don't see why Miami fans say their team was hated but Miami fans saw how the 2006 championship was largely disregarded as being tainted by phantom foul calls. The recency doesn't matter, the popularity does. To use a football comparison, NE wasn't hated until recently either. Then they won (although not as much as the Heat) and become both popular and hated. The recency isn't the issue, the level of popularity is. Both NE and the Heat experienced that, but in Miami's case people keep pretending like Miami wasn't a great franchise before Lebron arrived.
Thank you for the answer. So with one championship in 15 years, do you think the Heat were as relevant (fan wise/hate wise/media wise/valuation wise) as they were before Lebron showed? If so, why do you think so? Do you think it was the brown people theory?
I agree with everything except for the Riley part. I would say it's Lebron. Don't get me wrong, i know Riley is a huge figure in basketball, but who do people hate more Lebron or Riley? Every team has a few haters, but Sec and others are talking of national hatred. Riley isn't the cause of that, Lebron is (if there is any).
Only 6% Asian? That's surprising. I definitely see (or think I do) more than 6 out of 100 people of Asian descent outside of work. Of course it could be a function of that general area, perhaps people are more centrally located there.
I definitely think the majority of Heat hate is a function of jealousy resulting from the big 3 coming together and what they were able to accomplish. I don't doubt there was some hate before than, but what I have seen/heard isn't linked to anything outside the last 4 years. I personally never heard anyone say anything bad about the first championship outside of bringing it up when the big 3 came together and people alluding to Wayde needing someone else next to him to get back to the championship level. Actually one other thing I have heard about is the fans. That seems to apply to more than just the heat though (dolphins and marlins I mean) and listening to Houston sports radio they take their own basketball fans to task for not filling the lower area in a timely fashion as well.
They not only had that championship, but they were winning and were a contender every year. Those things along with Riley made them relevant. The Lebron signing upped the attention, but they were already relevant. And Riley had his detractors in the media and among fans so there was hate. As for the brown people theory, I think it only comes into play when the overall attention is high enough. I believe it was high enough when Riley was here, but before Lebron arrived and will remain as long as Riley is here.
There's two parts here and I'm not sure which you're asking about. In terms of relevancy than Riley is the bigger factor without question as Miami was successful and relevant before Lebron arrived. In terms of hatred then Lebron while he was here was the more hated figure. He added to the Miami hate more than the relevancy side b/c Miami was already winning as much as the most successful teams, but didn't have any players that were hated nationally. The hate against Riley existed but was limited more to older fans and excluded most young fans.
The largest collection of bball fans is in NY and they despise Riley. They have been there since day one and is a large source of Heat hate.
Lebron wasn't hated when he was at Cleveland, and he was universally lauded now when he returned. He was only hated in Miami. The common denominator in the hate is not Lebron, but Miami. Lebron has gone back to Cleveland and is now being celebrated and admired, while Miami is continuing to receive hatred and ridicule by the other fanbases. You can bet your *** if the big 3 had joined in NY instead of Miami, the level of hatred and vitriol directed at them would have been reduced exponentially.
I remember that being in Chicago because Bulls fans on GM Boards were saying that Wade and Bosh were talking about Rose being in that chair lolol
After returning from an amusement park in N. Ohio, I must say Lebron James has a bigger impact on that region than anyone has anywhere in the history of life. All you see is Lebron jerseys (unharmed) "The Return" "Reclaim your throne" shirts etc. he has breathed life into that area. His return truly is bigger than basketball.
His being there won't make the city any less of a dump. It will take something other than a sports figure. I'm sorry but its disgusting if that is what inspires people to be happy. His being there won't make the city a better place, that is on the people themselves. They should stop putting so much stock into a sports figure and you know...maybe get an education, better themselves, do something that matters. Not like vicariously through a sports figure. Not just Cleveland. Anyone who thinks any sports figure is somehow important.
Wow. That's a pretty terrible take on your part, I know your guys anuses are ripped open and all. But too attack a group of people who maybe don't have the same opportunities as yourself is frankly disgusting. But hey, your Heat fan. Nothing douchebag about that post at all..
I know I mainly lurk in these Heat threads, but GOD I wish this man owned the Dolphins in addition to the Heat. Think he would have let Harbaugh get away--or let other failures happen?
His reply did seem a little harsh, but nobody down here is that upset that Lebron went home. I think Dwyane Wade signing elsewhere would have had a bigger backlash. Miami never revolved around Lebron. We're still gonna do what we do down here. Nobody is going to burn jerseys or anything, no one is going to cry about it, no one is going to lose their business or close up shop because Lebron left. There is soo much more to life, like the Miami Dolphins. The Heat were always 2nd, before, during, and after Lebron. Edit: And Riley is still here.
Seriously. Wasn't there a rumor he was interested in buying the team? Maybe that was the Marlins. Either way, the guy just runs a first class organization all the way around. Riley probably has a big influence in that, but Mickey just gets it. Him being the only owner coming out publicly bashing Sterling further solidified how much respect I have for him.
Marlins. He's a big baseball fans and has season tix. Barry Jackson reported that he's engaged Loria a few times
LOL. Tell those assclowns that they bought T-shirts that were produced for him when he was with the Heat, and were designed for the Finals. Of course...never mind that Red and Black color scheme.... As for that area...maybe we can get Dan Marino to tear his Achilles again so they can be really happy.
I think it has a LOT more to do with Riley than it does with the city of Miami being full of brown people. And also during that championship run with Wade, it's absolutely true that Miami was the beneficiary of a lot of foul calls. I'm not saying they weren't fouls, but Wade was at the line more than I'd probably ever seen anyone at the line. Seriously he took 25 ****ing free throws in one of the games against the Mavs. That's all a part of the game and again I'm not saying they weren't fouls, but nationally I wouldn't expect anyone to love you for winning the championship at the free throw line. And then the Big 3 happened and I think whichever team had been the beneficiary of "The Decision" and the super team idea would have been subject to national hate. I truly believe that. Had it been Houston, they'd have been the devil. Had it been the Milwaukee Bucks, they'd have been the devil. So really I just think it's a confluence of factors from Pat Riley to the 2006 Championship series to the Big 3. I would probably put "city full of brown people" about 17th down the list.
CK..ever hear WEEI? Have you ever heard them talk about "Miami" in the sports fan "context"? Maybe Boston is just a racist *** town...but they sure like to mix in ethnic insults within their hatred of the Heat and Dolphins...
I agree that it has more to do with Riley. As I've tried to explain, but possibly have done a poor job of, I believe that you first have to be relevant and popular (and hated) enough before the racists even notice you enough. The racist really only complains when they feel the target is taking something from them (jobs, money or in this case wins and titles). I don't agree that any team who got the big three would have faced the same fate. New York and Chicago were both expected choices. The media played those up as likely and reasonable. Miami was not the expected choice and the criticism from the media started immediately. I don't know if they were just pissed they got it wrong, if it was the Riley effect or if they were just pissed it didn't happen in one of their big media outlets. But the criticism was there immediately as if for some reason the Heat didn't deserve the big three. I don't believe it would have been the same with a big market team. And even with a small market team, I wonder if the story would have been about how small market teams can attract FAs and win rather than the undeserving implication. As for the 2006 championship, Wade did draw a ton of fouls and the video evidence confirmed that they were in fact fouls. Wade had one of the fastest first steps in history. That was the element of his game that was truly special (I would add his killer instinct, but that wasn't talked about as much pre-draft). Dallas didn't have an answer for that other than to foul. The media could have talked about how special Wade was, especially after all those freeze frames emerged of Wade being fouled. Instead they focused on the number of fouls and implied it was a tainted title.
That NY wouldnt have received the same hate isnt something I simply cant agree with. Every other sports city HATES NY teams. NY teams get crap for the slightest thing, having the slightest expectation. This is undeniable. The Yankees? Universally hated. The Mets? Hated. Knicks? Hated. Giants? Hated (except by fans of teams that hate the Pats). Jets? Hated (deservedly so). Rangers? Hated. Hell, even the Islanders who have been doormats for the last 30 years....are disliked. I think I speak for most Knicks fans when I say the dislike of the Heat dates back to Riley going there and of course the playoff series. For me, personally it even went away for a little while when the Knicks were terrible during the Isiah years. I would even go so far to say I enjoyed watching Wade put on a show during the finals vs Dallas in one of the best finals performances in league history...even though i still wanted Dallas to win.
