Straight players do not have to announce them because they are open about it. Have girlfriends, talk about their wives, have kids, etc.
Agreed, but it just seems to me that it's jumping to a conclusion that Dungy didn't make a similar football decision.
Killing dogs isn't a distraction, but mike Sam is...lol He's saying that he wants the distinction of what he means to be on the record..fine, he states that he doesn't mind a gay football player on his team, but doesn't want the distractions of what an openly gay football player brings to the team.. What a shallow vision of how to change the world for the better, what a narrow view of the impact of what Sam did for society and teenagers who are killing themselves because they can't be open or are being ridiculed.. He's busted, and he's not as smart as people think.
Most gay players feel the need to go out of their way to HIDE their sexuality specifically because of people with bigoted opinions like the ones you've espoused. Straight players on the other hand don't feel the need to announce it, but they also don't feel the need to HIDE it. When they mention their wives (which they do, often) they don't fear the papers coming out with headlines that they're now out of the closet as a straight person. When they kiss their wives in front of people (which they do, often), they don't fear people making a big deal of it with media flashing headlines about how bold they are or how disgusting they are or how people wish they'd just keep that side of them hidden. The moment a gay person is seen doing or saying ANYTHING in public that confirms his sexuality, even just in passing, he has now ANNOUNCED himself as being out of the closet. That's a fact. Media will run with it as soon as they know he's not going out of his way to hide it. No straight player need ever worry about that and therefore no straight player ever is faced with the question of whether he should announce it so that he can exert some level of control over the media and fan narrative. And of course people knowing your race is avoidable. Skin can be bleached. Appearance can be altered. You can cover up so people don't know. Race is as avoidable and hideable as sexual orientation.
And equally that has nothing to do with football. Im denouncing his need to build separation from the team, not his sexuality. A team is a team. It shouldnt be relevant if youre gay, straight, whatever.
Yea I got what youre saying. But he is not coming out on the football field. He is not separating himself from the team because he is gay. He came out as a gay man to the world, AFTER his football season. He is a public figure. So his sexuality is absolutely going to effect his life. You think that if he didnt come out and then half way through the season he was "caught" having a make out session with his boyfriend, that the media would not go crazy? and even teammates questioning what is going on, if he were not to tell them privately? They would be awestruck, baffled, confused, feel violated, etc. because this gay man they had no clue was in their locker room was watching them shower and be naked.
Anything can be done I suppose in relation to your last statement; but its much harder to do. Youre correct that the media does announce it for you and its equally as wrong even though it comes with being a public figure as a pro athlete is. What I dont particularly like about the way Sam started off his career is that he felt the need to bring it to everyones attention and that people make such a big deal of it. It shouldnt be. On another note, if it does come across as bigoted, then I apologize. It isnt intended that way. I dont watch sports though to hear about peoples sexuality, off the field issues, etc and it definitely strikes a chord with me.
I didnt support the oppression of gays. I never ever said or insinuated that Sam had no right to play football. If only he were playing football and not talking about sexuality. On another note oppression doesnt seem to mean what you think it means...I didnt not support any of those nor would I. 1 a : unjust or cruel exercise of authority or power b : something that oppresses especially in being an unjust or excessive exercise of power 2 : a sense of being weighed down in body or mind
wow Matt, I don't know where to start.. Do you realize how many kids kill themselves for being gay and feeling that they are anything but free??it's the ultimate form of being oppresses! you are sinning for just being born the way you are.what a horrible thing for anyone to have to go thru..I believe it's the #1 reason for teenage suicide. The evil that religion, misinterpretation and simply a lack of intellect breeds. The presser was because he didn't want to hide who he is for his career, something that you nor I can comprehend because we like the opposite sex. I know you're only looking at this thru a football perspective, but, it's really not a big deal, Sam will provide no distractions, the media will try, eventually even dumb people will evolve, he has the right to tell that he's gay, because of the oppression and cruelty involved, why should he go thru that, why let the ignorant, or religious ones win.
Here's the problem with this. There has never been a gay athlete in NFL football that did not intentionally hide his sexuality while in the NFL. There have been players people "knew" to be gay. But that was regarded as a secret. The players have been careful to never do or say anything in front of cameras that confirmed their sexuality. If Michael Sam wanted to be FREE from that kind of oppression (and it is most definitely a form of oppression), which means he can do or say things without fear of having just overtly confirmed his sexuality, then it was inevitable for him to be outed as the first openly gay athlete in NFL history. That was going to happen, no matter what. No. Matter. What. Its inevitability was dictated by the mere decision that he would not cower or hide his sexuality as others have done out of fear and oppression. What he did was just take control of the conversation and GET IT OVER WITH. It should be everything you want since you don't want to keep hearing about it. That was the goal of what he did. Don't drag it out. Don't let others keep talking about it behind veils, making innuendos, accusing him of being a coward for not confirming it, etc. Just get it out of the way. From there of course he's got offers to do TV shows and stuff like that. There are people out there dying, literally dying, because they're gay. That's either because people are killing them for being gay, or because they feel so oppressed they commit suicide. And that possibly includes Dungy's own son by the way. So yeah there's a lot of interest in looking up to Michael Sam for a lot of people out there. He made the right call (in your eyes), not doing that TV stuff...yet you're criticizing him merely because it was a possibility? It just seems like nothing this man can do (other than willingly stay oppressed) will make him come out a winner in your eyes...and that's all because he's gay. And yeah I apologize if you don't like that I consider that bigoted, but I don't know how else to see it.
DJ, Im not aware of the stats regarding teenage suicide and I wouldnt support those who make fun of it either. I do look at it through a microscope because all I am interested in, is the game itself. Thats what I am about not the politics people try and bring in to it. If that is true then that is an eye-opener. And a sad one at that.
That's because he lacks an important part of intellect. In a vacum, he said he wouldn't draft him because of the distraction of him being gay...I'll try to be nice here, but that's some stupid *** talking without thinking of who your talking about, it's such a generalization, it's such an insult to mike Sam, it completely dismisses everything that he's going to accomplishlish by doing so.. Tony Dungy should be fired from NBC, maybe Oprah should get involved lol, someone needs to check this fool.
Matt, this says it all.. ?... Do you agree with Dungy that you wouldn't of drafted Sam if you were a coach?
It's like CK said, he didn't bring it to the worlds attention on purpose to achieve fame, he did it because it's the right thing to do, because of how gay folks are oppressed in our society. I keep hearing football analysts continue to not get what is being said, Stink not being able to explain why Sam did what he did and why it's important for everyone to accept and move on. Folks are continuing to discuss things like "other players will be continually asked questions and that becomes a distraction" We have to get over that part..lol omg.. I'm not smart enough to articulate it, but I certainly can sympathize, and find tremendous empathy for mike Sam, and this situation.
I draft based on talent and character. From a talent standpoint hes decidedly average. His character, I dont know him personally so Id have to know him, talk to him, to judge that. I wouldnt take someone off my board on the basis of sexuality. That I will say.
I totally know your only looking at it thru football lenses, but the continuation of beliefs like Dungy has expressed will only continue to make those stats go up.. His rebuttal still had nothing to do with Sam the football player, you realize how wrong that is, how COWARDLY Of an approach that is from a coaches perspective... I won't select a player with this amount of courage because I'm scared of what it could do to my football team? What a freakin Coward.
Ok great, so then if you believed the player was the best player on your board, you wouldn't pass because of the distractions? And I think when you evaluate a player you have to have a feel for his character and leadership, well, if we can forget that he's gay, then hasn't this man showed great character and leadership? Now I know that's hard for you to agree with because you've already stated that he should keep it to himself, and herein lyes what were trying to change your mind about..
What annoyed me about it was the TV show they had planned so Im not sure if thats character. That to me is making a public spectacle. Although I will say this: If what you said about kids and suicide rates is true, I would run it uncensored so that people can see how stupid they sound when they name call something hurtful. These arent choir boys here so I get that they will swear, talk about peoples sisters, mommas etc. I mean the real stuff. What annoys me about it is that it shouldnt be a thing and it is. It annoys me because I care about the game, not the bullish.
I haven't seen the comment your referring to. If he did say that then I would agree that it is offensive. But that wouldn't change my position that off of the original quote it would be jumping to a conclusion to assume wrong doing.
There is no bullish, he cancelled the show..when Oprah calls you listen, to deny her, he should be commended. The point is, any distraction that comes from what mike Sam did, is worth it, you categorize it as bullish, I categorize it as deep, inspiring life sh@& that is absolutely necessary to evolve gay rights and to put mirrors in front of the ignorant who think it's a choice, and do not forget, it's all about mike Sam, he is what makes the distractions worth it, here's why, if he's good enough to make the team, his character and leadership will overcome the distractions and play a role in chemistry, if he's not good enough then he will get cut, and the world will still be a better place, he will still of saved lives and made it easier for the next person.. It's a win win for everyone.
I can go along with enough of the stuff there to fist bump your post. I dont give two craps about Oprah. Sam didnt cancel the show; the rams met with him and his agent and he agreed to cancel it. Additionally, the league was reportedly unaware of the show when he was drafted and said something. I posted the links for that stuff earlier.
I feel athletes ought to be able to identify as whatever and who cares BUT There is something about Michael Sam that strikes me as guy trying to cash in on his fame. Whether that distracts from football remains to be seen, but I find it difficult to imagine it wouldn't detract from his preparation. The TV show is one part of that. I suspect he is not the knight in shining armor some people want him to be. I hope I am very wrong about that, as an elite and exemplary gay football player is desperately needed
Pretty tough childhood with a lot of people that could of derailed him...I think we can probably say what didn't kill this kid made him stronger. Besides admitting that he was gay, what has he done to deserve your suspicion? He did one Interview 4 months ago. It wasn't his fault he was given an award.. I think the man can be smart enough to document a little of what's happening in his life and this particular journey and still keep his respect and focus on the prize, which is legitimately making the team, and consciously trying not to be in the spotlight for sexual preference. He has responded to dungs comments.. I have great respect for Mr. Dungy, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.. Lets see if he leaves it at that, the media will try here to create the distraction that Dungy is talking about, lets see how he handles it.
Dung states that he doesn't believe his sexual orientation will be a distraction, but thinks the media will make it one and for that reason he would not select him. What a coward, what a lack of leadership, what a liar.
Heres another fun one....David Tyree would trade his helmet catch if it stopped gays from being married: http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/sto...ign-blasts-new-york-giants-hiring-david-tyree
He may not be the knight in shining armor that he's made out to be. I get what you're saying. But 90% of the league aren't. And probably an equal percentage of the league are TRYING to be famous and get recognition. There's nothing unique about Michael Sam in that regard, even if you are right. The only thing that is different, is his being gay. That's it. That's the difference. And if it's ok for all those other guys in the league who really aren't knights in shining armor and really would try and leverage any situation into their own personal gain, but it's NOT ok for Michael Sam to be that way even just a little bit....wouldn't you have to question WHY the double standard? And if you do...are you going to come up with an answer that doesn't make you feel like a jerk?
I agree. I follow the giants as you know and for a guy who never did anything aside from one great catch you'd think he'd be a little more humble.
Nice article by Dan Wetzel. Really sums it up. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/tony-d...lects-stunning-lack-of-courage-195216393.html
Dungy now trying to do damage control: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-s...-absolutely--deserves-a-chance-174226901.html Problem #1: As per the author of the article (which came out Sunday), the interview took place only "a week or two" prior to the article's release. By then the proposed Oprah television special had been long canceled. Problem #2: He blames the media distraction as the reason he would avoid Sam. He just created that media distraction. Problem #3: In his original statement, he said "It's not going to be totally smooth … things will happen." This is further proof that the Oprah show (which had already long been canceled) had NOTHING to do with his original statement and he is, in fact, lying about that right now. Problem #4: Predicting a media distraction because a player is gay and then avoiding the player because of that media distraction IS STILL AVOIDING THE PLAYER BECAUSE HE'S GAY.
Why exactly is it an indictment of Sam to try and turn his fame into opportunity and money? We don't begrudge any other player of doing that.
Anyone remember Kerry Rhodes? In 2012, PFF had him ranked as the 4th best safety in the NFL. Some website posted pictures of him and his male assistant. In the pictures, they appeared to have a relationship beyond co-workers and/or friends. Kerry Rhodes denied he was gay. Kerry Rhodes also remains unemployed. It was rumored that he was blackballed from the league. That's another reason I thought Sam was smart about coming out. Getting ahead of the rumors was important and it allowed him a level of control that he wouldn't of had otherwise.
That's another good point. Guys like Dungy who would like to discriminate against gay players prefer to do that in secret, and their bigotry is protected when the player is still in the closet. Coming out of the closet drags them into the light and forces them to mind themselves.
I'm astounded that Tony Dungy thinks his "clarification" actually helps his position. How does getting caught telling a blatant lie and then just reiterating your position that you wouldn't have drafted Michael Sam because you think being gay is a media distraction...help your cause?
He hasn't done that.. Now if your just posing it as a what if, if he starts doing that then it becomes a distraction to his own game, you want to get famous for playing ball first..
I would bet that he cancelled that show himself..I'm sure his agent was excited about the opp and the idea probably went to him first, but it didn't take long for Sam to squash it once he understood everything. For me personally I would of loved to watch him train to make this team, to see what kind of leadership and focus it takes to overcomes all these distractions Dungy is preaching about, Sam vrs the media showdown..would of been riveting for me. I respect him more that he cancelled it, cause he probably do it for his team.
"I don't agree with his lifestyle" Dung.. Therein lies the problem, he speaking from a place of ignorance..
