Nava has had a lot of bad luck with balls in play but at times looked bad too. Playing regularly in Triple A for a few weeks might not be the worst thing in the world for him. Although it's not like Sizemore or Carp has lit the world on fire either this year.
I disagree especially with Farrell's pre game comments where he said while everyone uses it he hopes Pineda will be a little discreet about it. The guy had a huge glob of it on his neck, as a manager you almost have no choice at that point. That's all on Pineda, how can you be so stupid to do something like that when there was so much discussion about it in his last start. With that being said it's now open season on Red Sox pitchers so hopefully they are smarter about it. Should be interesting to hear Girardi's comments.
So he recognizes everyone does it, including his own staff. But yet he gets someone ejected for something his own staff does? How is that not a dick move?
Because the guy had it visible on his neck and this was after Farrell stated the guy needs to do a better job hiding it. If Farrell doesn't come out and point it out to the umps then what? I think any manager in the game would have done the same thing, especially after all the talk about Pineda using pine tar the game before. Pineda was almost forcing the Sox hand there after last game. If this was a one time thing then yeah I would agree but this is the guy's very next start against the Sox. I mean seriously it's not like he was trying to hide it. It's not like it was hidden in his glove and Farrell called him out to break balls.
So is Farrell ok with his guys using steroids if they can get past the test? I don't care if it's obvious or not. If you believe it's cheating, point it out, then don't do it yourself.
Oh come on you don't think Joe Maddon would have let something like that go? He only pointed it out because it was so obvious.
With the way Joe reacted after Davey Johnson did the same thing to Peralta a couple years ago. Id say he wouldn't. But who knows
Different circumstances there though and from what I remember Peralta didn't have any pine tar visible, Johnson only called him out because he knew he used it when Peralta was with Washington, no? Either way can we just agree what Pineda did tonight was stupid?
I guess yea. But if every pitcher is using it, they should just make it legal anyways. Hitters use pine tar to hold on to the bats. Pitchers should be able to use it too.
For whatever it's worth the YES Network (Yankee station) which is usually pro Yankee, as most team stations are, is siding with Farrell and taking Pineda over the coals for being so obvious about it. Girardi basically admitted Farrell had no choice to call Pineda out because it was so blatant. Cashman said he would have wanted Girardi to do the same thing if he was Farrell. So it doesn't seem like Farrell broke an unwritten rule or anything like that.
So everyone does it just dont get caught? You mean like Clay was last year and no one cared? How is it a rule if its never enforced unless its forced by a manager to be forced? What a joke.
David Cone and Al Leiter actually did a great job explaining it last night during the game and post game. They said almost every pitcher uses something to help them get a better grip on the ball because rosin really doesn't do much and teams know this, understand it and don't say anything unless it's obvious. Usually the pitcher will put the pine tar on his belt or inside of the glove. Both Cone and Leiter said they never saw a pitcher put it on his neck and it was completely dumb to do that especially with there being a million cameras in the stadiums now and all the technology like HD etc especially since Pineda's last start against the Sox got some much coverage because of the pine tar on his hand, with it being on his neck and so obvious it forced Farrell to say something there as it was basically a slap in the face to the Sox. They both said that there should really be a rule change to allow pitchers to use 1 substance that all teams agree on to help with the grip. I found it interesting that Girardi and Cashman basically defended and agreed with Farrell and said it's all on Pineda there. Whether they really mean that or were just being PC, I thought the Yankees handled this pretty well.
The whole thing to me is stupid. If everyone in baseball knows pitchers do it why does it matter if they put it on there arm or their neck? What is the point of a rule that is only broken if its "obvious". Somehow i think if this was a Royals vs Padres game and some pitcher had pine tar on his neck no one would give a damn it sure as hell wouldnt have been blown up like this.
My .02...Pineda should have been throw out because it is the rule...also for how incredibly dumb he thinks people are....I mean come on dude....your skin is dark son but not that dark lol....same with Joe if he knew shame on him for letting him go out their like that, but something tells me he didn't know....how could he? As for the rule, it is stupid and is void of any common sense, everybody does something to get a grip, it was in the 40's last night with 40MPH wind gust, rosin does nothing in that instance....we talk about the protecting ball players, it is time to let pitchers use something to grip the ball better ONLY in adverse conditions ie cold and wind. It makes sense and is the right thing to do....this isnt the 40's anymore where pitchers dont throw hard....everybody in baseball hurls at 90+ Lastly on Farrell it is give and take, he did that for one reason and one reason only.....they aren't playing well, he saw an opportunity to get Pineda out of the game and ruin their bullpen for the series...if the Sox were in first albeit it is early he wouldnt have done anything...... But realistically all he did was open the door to NY or the other teams calling his players out now down the road....no more bullfrog for Clay, or no more stuff for Lester in the postseason......hahaha Lester did it in the POSTSEASON!!!
They had to say that.....trust me Girardi knows the deal.....Sox better be squeaky clean playing NY now....hey maybe this sparks the rivalry again Fink!!!
My rebuttal to the "so obvious" thing is, if that were the case. Why didn't Farrell say hey, check his neck he has something on there? Clearly all he said was, can you check him for a substance.
I'm kind of confused, what's the difference? The end result would be the same with Pineda being thrown out.
Agree on everything but Farrell doing it because the team isn't playing well. At the time the team was up 2-0 and hitting Pineda pretty well. Farrell did it because he had to do it. This isn't an 1 time event, this is the 2nd time in a row Pineda has pine tar visible. He was forcing the Sox hand there. If Farrell didn't go out and have him checked how bad would it have looked for Farrell and the team? The Sox gave Pineda and the Yankees a free pass in Pineda's first game against the Sox and said after that game and before last night's game they don't have a problem with a pitcher using it for a better grip but don't be so obvious or blantant about it. Pineda was. And I'm sure the Yankees will call out a Sox pitcher before the end of the year and you're right the Sox pitchers better be "clean" but I don't think it's open season on other teams calling out the Sox for this, because again it's a slippery slope.
Its being said the Red Sox took issue not that he was using pine tar ( they do it to) but it was "obvious". Well if it was obvious why did not look at this neck from the get go? Why having **** on the bill of your cap, your hand, or your forearm not "Obvious"? Didnt MLB clear Clay just last year? Wasnt Lester during the WS touching his cap ALOT ( ahem) in the WS? Didnt Phil Coke have pine tar on his palm during the playoffs agaisnt the Yankees? What is the difference here?
Obviously anything Red Sox/Yankees this will get a lot more press but if you don't think it would be a big deal or get coverage if it was two different teams I think you're wrong.
Red Sox players said it wasnt a big deal after the first game! Can the game make up its mind here? Is it a big deal or not? Espn went back and showed him having some on his hand in Toronto as well.... Guess it wasnt a big deal then?
Because Pineda didn't have the pine tar on his neck in the 1st inning, when he came out for the 2nd inning thats when he had it on. No Lester had a substance in his glove in Game 1 of the WS and didn't have it in his next start in Game 5. And yes there have been numerous guys that had pine tar on their hands, gloves, whatever in the playoffs. The difference is that Pineda got media attention because he had it on his hand in his April 10th start, the Sox said they don't think it's a big deal just don't make it obvious and the guy came to the mound with it on his neck that was visible. What did you want the Sox to do in that situation? If the roles where reverse and Buchholz or whoever had it on his neck after the Yankees warned him not to have it visible and Girardi didn't call Buchholz out you would have been ok with that? I mean come on.
Again for the last time, Farrell said he has no problem with pitchers using it, just don't make it obvious. When a pitcher comes out on the field with a pine tar visible on the neck it kind of forces the team to say something. It's not like it was hidden at all or well. It was completely out in the open.
Which is bull**** its either *cheating* or it isnt. If he is using it for grip why does it matter where he puts it?
Look its obvious there are flaws with this pitcher substance rule. I think we can all agree that if this is accepted by all teams there should perhaps be a rule change and hopefully MLB does something about it.
Sterling and Walden's reaction to the Pineda thing is absolutely priceless. Exactly what you would expect from them.
Here's Girardi's, Pineda's and Cashman's comments about the pine tar: http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/bo...-yankees-starter-due-to-presence-of-pine-tar/ Also a good article about Pineda and the pine tar: http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/b...day-common-sense-was-trumped-michael-pinedas-
Farrell had no choice but to say something. Hell even cashman said his blackberry was getting blown up and by the time got down from the stands it was too late. Pineda lacks common sense. Although if most people are skirting the rule should mlb be reconsidering the rule.
And this was after Pineda had a talk with Girardi, Cashman and Joe Torre/MLB Front Office about it, yet still did it and had a glob of it in plain sight is even more idiotic.
I would even go as far as to say that came from Cherington or somebody else and a runner was sent downstairs to tell the Coach in the dugout....he had it on the right side of his neck away from the Boston dugout.....
Sox said that their video guy in the clubhouse first saw it along with some of their players on the TV feed and gave word. Farrell did say he saw it on his neck from the field.
He didn't have to do it....LaRussa didn't...... Mind you this is in the WORLD SERIES back in 2006.... http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/24/sports/baseball/24series.html?_r=0
