Good point. So many people demonize Ireland for saying, "Martin should have punched him." Then they trumpet Dikta because he would have punched him.
Til the next time. Not that I have a problem w AJ slugging someone like Finnegan. Weren't you one of the people saying how ******ed Ireland was for suggesting Martin punch Incog?
Fair enough then, my mistake. I'm also of the mind that if Martin stands up for himself then it's very possible this whole thing doesn't go down in this manner.
nope, wasnt me. my only issue is that some people think that this is normal behavior in every locker room. its not. this is not joking or a little hazing...this is harrassment and racism.
You mean hazing to the point where the victim needs to retaliate in violence or the threat of? I'd say that's pretty normal.
Fair enough but there's quite a few examples out there in NFL lockerrooms or just in life in general where it's necessary.
Well, the reality is, every person in the NFL is broken in some way. It's nonsense to start to talk about "standards" and "right and wrong" without recognizing that Martin isn't the only one messed up. Everyone acts as though Martin is messed up so the other guys on the team should be caring and loving and help him out and the team should provide for this. Well, heck, who on the Dolphins is not messed up? What is not recognized is that Incognito and Pouncey and all the rest of those guys are a mess. And broken. It is likely that Incognito has deeper psychological problems than Martin. Why isn't Martin held responsible for others? Depression? It's a problem. But, most who suffer from depression also have deeper issues of anger or guilt and clearly Incognito has those issues as well. Our standards of "who is hurting" and "who is good and who is bad" are so relative that all this talk is itself flawed. It's interesting that Martin is "excused" from his own bad behavior because a) he has the 'depression' card (it is very likely Incognito suffers the same); and b) he is seen as a "victim" but maybe the blame goes much deeper. Maybe Incognito could also be viewed as a victim if his upbringing was a disaster and he's acting this way because he has been set on a pattern of life (and was allowed to get away with it). This is not to excuse actions but the reality is - you are going to be fortunate if you find 10% of an NFL franchise where a person is not a big mess in their personal life. It's just that some things are socially acceptable; other things are not. It's acceptable for players to go out and get drunk out of their skulls (as long as they don't drive, of course) and have sex with whomever they want or have 10 kids with 10 women. But, anyone who thinks that isn't going to lead to deeper personal problems is naive. My point is not to say Martin does not need help. But, once you start down that road you are going to need to deal with fixing 40-50 players. The reality is, everyone is having a big emotional reaction because Martin has reacted to his internal suffering with potential suicide or whining. Fine. I get that. I am not seeking to be callous to Martin because I work with a lot of people who are depressed. But, Incognito has reacted to his internal suffering with being a party animal first and then taking an old school perspective toward Martin. Not healthy or justifiable at all. Professional football is a crazy sport. Most who play it either fail after 5 years; or if they continue on they will be severely debilitated by age 50. And, while playing, it requires an animalistic attitude. Anyone who thinks most players are easily well-adjusted to that without deep internal problems (especially in view of the fact that they have been stars most of their life through college) is naive. TO think some players should be held responsible for others - well, Martin is just as responsible for helping others as Incongito is. Coaches themselves are trying to hold onto a career and they are messed up people. Many have suffered divorce or a broken family situation. It's part of the pressure of the job. And, many of them may not have had the best upbringing. Doesn't matter how old they are. So, the point is, everyone wants to assign blame but that could be everywhere - including Martin. Or maybe Martin's parents or upbringing. Maybe his parents are as messed up as Incognito's dad! And, maybe that has had a huge impact on both. This in no way is an attempt to justify Incognito who should both be held accountable and given help. But, then, Martin has accountability in his own way.
Bingo. It's not right but it is what it is. Incognito is disgusting and a terrible person but this is more the norm than the exception. The stuff they say back and forth is totally reprehensible but it happens.