KB, why don't you take these things into account, why such a hard stance? Why is there no blame to Ryan ?
We had cap space, but we absolutely did not have to sign a "weapon" in free agency, and we also weren't limited to just Greg Jennings and Mike Wallace. The biggest reason Mike Wallace was signed was to create fan excitement in their attempt to get the stadium deal done. That signing had absolutely nothing to do with on the field impact, as Mike is a terrible fit for this offense.
Well, here it is at 3:15 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t44xgKLse4 Maybe someone can time the pass pro with a stop watch to see how long Tannehill had, because it seemed to me that he had quite a bit of time to throw it. He had so much time that it was almost inevitable that at some point he'd get some pressure on him, ergo the helmet in the chest. Pump fake at 3:18, I kind of like that. This kind of goes to show how fast this game really is- in the next 2 seconds he stepped up in the pocked, had some kind of hesitation at 3:20 that I can't explain, and then impressively heaved the ball 65 yards in the air. The problem is that the throw was made late. Wallace had to wait for the ball, the DB caught up to him and the ball was a bit behind Wallace. The was an impressive throw in terms of distance and the strength of RT's arm, but it wasn't really a good throw at all. How could it be? He was so late throwing it that it would have probably had to be 75-80 yards in the air to not force Wallace to slow down and come back for the ball. And that, almost by definition, makes it not a good throw. It really is that simple- Ryan Tannehill waited too damn long to throw the ball to Wallace. He forced the problem, not Wallace or the OL that gave him plenty of time to make the throw. I do think that Wallace could have caught that ball and he deserves some criticism for that, but Ryan Tannehill screwed up that play by waiting too long to release the football. A good throw would have resulted in an easy game winning TD, and props to Wallace for getting so wide open in that situation, with 20 seconds left in the game and his team down by 4.
So, what you are trying to say here is that last year, Wallace didn't get open as much as he has this year. Ryan mentions it because that's just the way he is. He's not missing Mike Wallace anymore than other quarterbacks miss their best deep threats. Mike Wallace has fewer touchdowns because he doesn't fight for the ball. What you are wanting is Ryan to do what no other quarterback does, and you are absolving Mike Wallace for being one of the absolute worst receivers in the league at fighting for the ball.
Still seeing what you want to see, huh? What actually happens on the play is that Wallace is even with the deepest defender on the field at the 15 yard line. The ball is already well in the air at this point. Ryan anticipated that he would get passed this man, and the ball was in the air. If he throws it any earlier, the deep man is not even turned. This play highlights Mike's poor tracking skills, because he absolutely went the wrong way and then had to adjust to the ball. If Ryan throws it earlier, it is probably intercepted because the safety likely has better tracking skills than Mike Wallace and if both are going for the ball, Mike Wallace will lose 10 times out of 10.
Would you kindly stop trying to figure out what I think (it clearly isn't working) and instead answer one very simple question: how many? But I'll happily provide the answer for you: You don't know. So let's try a different question: How many Pittsburgh games did you watch in full length back in 2010 and 2011? No, I'm not acting that way at all. But it's very telling that you say I am. Yes, it clearly not working. Why don't you start by trying to figure out what I'm saying and we'll take it from there? Let me point you in the proper direction: You have absolutely no clue whatsoever about the relevant statistical numbers both in relation to Miami and, even more so, in relation to the league (average). But yes, you said 40% for a reason: You had to pull a number out of your hat. That's very true. You included others in the insult, too. I really don't see how insulting more people would actually make your insults less impudent and infantile, but I'll give you props for creativity:
Could you at least acknowledge that a large part of what's being discussed is the lack of success on deep balls when Wallace is wide open? I don't think that anyone is arguing the point that Wallace is not good at fighting for the ball, but that's not really the point. The major frustration here in terms of Tannehill is his inability to connect with deep balls to Wallace when Wallace is WIDE OPEN. You keep bringing up comparative stats as per other QBs, but unless those stats directly reflect how QBs are throwing the ball when their WRs are clearly wide open deep, it just doesn't matter. I don't think that anyone would be harping on this issue if it wasn't so clearly obvious and so important. Also, it's not just a case of completion/no completion, it's also whether or not the play was maximized. If a deep ball to a WIDE OPEN receiver is underthrown and the result is a FG and not an easy TD, that's a problem. I don't have a problem with stats, but I do have a problem with a shouright-style use of stats to prop up a weak argument.
I kind of disagree. If you can watch a game you can analyze it, especially now with all the different camera angles. I might argue its easier for a fan to focus on certain things because they aren't swamped with a thousand responsibilities and can suggest more innovative ideas because they don't have to worry about job security or criticism.
Why? Because Ryan has not shown problems with hitting other receivers on throws of those distances. It is just Mike.
I wouldn't waste your breath with KB. He is stubborn enough to believe he is always right and I've never seen him acknowledge that another view point may POSSIBLY be correct.
Every QB in every game misses deep throws. Against Carolina, Newton missed all three deep throws...an overthrow, an underthrow and a drop. But there's been nary a mention of this. Tannehill has issues with deep throws to Wallace but another issue is Wallace' catch radius. It appears as if it has to be right in the basket for him to have a chance downfield. This is an inordinate amount of pressure to put on a QB throwing 40 plus yards often under extreme pressure.
Tannehill release the ball from about his 32- from what I can tell Wallace, a super fast receiver, was already 50 yards downfield when RT threw the ball. There's your problem right there, besides the ball being thrown a little behind Wallace. A throw being a little behind is one thing, Wallace could have adjusted on the run. But this was behind and short, bringing the burned DB back into the equation and increasing the difficulty level. I think that earlier you referred to this as a perfect throw. And you call me delusional? Funny.
The weak argument here is this idea that Ryan Tannehill struggles so much on deep throws and is the only reason Mike Wallace isn't productive. The burden of proof is on you to prove that Ryan misses wide open receivers more than any other quarterback in the NFL. It's not on me. I've already proven that Mike Wallace is an inefficient deep ball receiver across two consecutive seasons with two different quarterbacks.
You've proven nothing. I saw a post earlier where you said the issue is all on Wallace. You're either blind or delusional. and I doubt that you're blind. Your determination to be right has overridden your sense of logic- unfortunately for you, when it comes to the issue of the lack of efficiency on deep balls to Wallace this year, you're clearly wrong. You also have every excuse in the book- Tannehill has said that his deep balls to Wallace aren't good, the coaches have said the same, analysts and most fans can see it clearly. But for you, Tannehill admitting to his own failure on deep balls to Wallace is just him being self deprecating. What a convenient spin as you try to sustain your argument.
You do know Wallace admitted the last pass vs Carolina was his fault, not Ryan's right? If you are going to bring up one player's admittance as proof of one issue, you should at least not try to ignore another player's admittance on a different issue.
If you are betting Reed knew exactly where he was going on the snap then you are betting that he was totally ignoring his zone coverage responsibilities. That's just not how you play zone. I'm pretty sure Ed Reed knows how to play zone coverage. And those stills don't show that he's heading out to Wallace. Wallace is stopped at the 32 and heading back toward the QB. Reed is not running in that direction. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
Maybe this will quiet some people and cease the foolish excuse making. Here's Denver vs KC last week. Do you think Broncos fans make silly excuses for all of Manning's missed downfield opportunities? **** no, and you know why? It's because he doesn't leave 95% of them on the field. He connected on more downfield opportunities in 1 damn game than Tannehill has all year. 1:20--- 41 yard TD [in stride] 2:06--- 42 yarder [hits Decker in stride] 2:55--- 37 yard TD [perfectly over the shoulder] 3:18--- 77 yarder to Thomas [hits Thomas in stride] [video=youtube;I-QHhbNuMJs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-QHhbNuMJs[/video] That's 197 chunk yards that resulted in 14 points and directly led to 14 more. 28 points b/c those 4 downfield throws weren't left on the field. Conversely, Tannehill has missed the overwhelming majority of his downfield opportunities while we struggle to score more than 20 points. This isn't rigged, geniuses. We're not talking about making a basket at the county fair. And we're not talking about converting every damn downfield opportunity; we're talking about merely converting an acceptable number. If Tannehill had done that we'd be in the lead for the final playoff spot. It's unfathomable the extend people will go to rationalize all the downfield opportunities Tannehill has left on the field while scapegoating Wallace in the process for his lack of scoring production. It's even more unfathomable that people are actually supporting such unacceptable play even though it's clearly costing us points and wins. Bunch of sanctimonious fools people are in scapegoating the hell out of Wallace but saying Tannehill leaving plays on the field is no big deal. PA-THETIC. If you wanna criticize Wallace then you need to criticize Tannehill too. Otherwise, STFU.
I didn't call anyone delusional. Here is the formation the Dolphins were in at the start of that play. It is 3 wide with the TE off the line on the left. Including the TE, this is 3 on one side and 1 on the other. Notice the defense. The linebackers are 10 yards off the LOS. Carolina is in a prevent defense....a defense designed to not let the opponent beat them down the field. Here's a pic of the action down the field after the ball has been thrown. Notice the guy circled very poorly in red. That's the deepest defender. The ball is in the air, and Mike IS NOT BEHIND THAT DEFENDER yet. If this ball is thrown any sooner, that defender can ignore Mike and go for the ball. Ryan pumped the ball to see if he could draw that safety up. Unfortunately, I can't see the action down the field on this youtube view when Ryan is pump faking. My guess is, the pump fake kept the deep safety from back pedaling to the goal line and allowed Mike to run by him. Here is the problem with the play. Wallace opens up the wrong way.
No, I wasn't aware of that. I think that I've been pretty clear that although I don't think that it was a good pass from Tannehill, it was a catchable ball and Wallace should have made the play. By no means would I say that it would have been an easy catch, but I think that most here agree that Wallace should have caught it. The other point of view is that it should have been an easy touchdown if Tannehill didn;t wait so long to throw the ball and force Wallace to slow down. Regardless, on this play it was both of their faults.
You're right. I haven't proven anything. Mike Wallace is the one that has proven that he isn't worth his contract.
...and the idea that Ryan waited too long to throw the ball has been summarily proven wrong. Unless you wanted him to throw an interception on the play.
There was a double clutch...either way when plays with that degree of difficulty happen it's hard to nitpick without being in the head of both players..what I see is regardless of the double clutch Wallace played the ball wrongly in the air.
Thank you for this entire post of nothing... that says a whole lot of nothing, supports a whole lot of nothing, and is worth a whole lot of nothing. Respond with some proof that Tannehill's level of missed downfield opportunities is acceptable or don't respond. I don't have to prove anything. I'm not the foolish one suggesting something that contradicts what Tannehill himself has even said. It's not acceptable for a college QB, let alone a goddam NFL one.
The play would have had a far better chance of succeeding if RT threw the ball a a second or 2 sooner and led Wallace toward the left half of the end zone, from what I can see no defender is there. It's not that I don't see your points, but Safety turned around or not, the pass should have been thrown sooner and to the left. The purpose of me bringing up this throw is that you called it something along the lines of a nearly perfect throw, and I simply disagree. As to actually lousy deep throws from RT to Wallace, there are far better examples than this one. And again, as I've said repeatedly, this was a catchable though imperfect deep ball, Wallace should have caught it. Not an easy catch, but catchable. That doesn't deter frrm the central issue.
Has Ryan Tannehill left plays on the field? Absolutely. More than you'd like? Probably. But that throw was money. 55 yards downfield, with :18 seconds to play, hitting his WR in both hands for the game winning TD. It's totally beyond me how people can, with a straight face, call other posters "delusional" and then go ahead and nitpick that throw. It perfectly captures everything that's wrong with this thread and a certain body of people on this board.
Tell me how is he going to lead Wallace to the left of the endzone when Wallace doesn't even locate the ball till he has done opened up to the RIGHT? Do you think Wallace is so good that he can open up to the right, spin around 180 degrees, and still catch the ball in the left part of the endzone? Particularly with a safety that has already located the ball before him if Ryan throws it 2 seconds sooner
I agree with some of that, but that throw isn't on the money just because Mike got his hands on it. I credit Ryan for making it at least catchable, but on the money? No Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
So where exactly was Tannehill supposed to put that ball given that the deep safety didn't jump the pump fake?
The left corner TD was dead as soon as the safety didn't bite on the PA. What's Tannehill supposed to do, throw it 60 yards downfield to the deep corner with a safety who's clearly reading him and a receiver who hasn't even turned his head yet to locate the ball? That's just crazy.
Ryan should have anticipated that Mike was going to open his hips and look the wrong way for the ball when he threw it. Shame on Ryan for not anticipating that.
There's a lot of speculation here..I'm not saying your wrong, it could play out this way, I haven't seen enough to know either way, theres developing going on, but I don't believe any GM would of stood in the way of the coaches for this particular scheme, especially considering both were coaches of the same scheme in Green Bay. We don't know if that the case when it comes to the stadium..I doubt it..but once again, who knows.. Best thing to do is see how they finish the season before jumping to conclusions.
No. Again I've said I didn't expect him to make the throw. It would've been an incredible toss. Please do your research Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
What's hypocritically ironic about this is KB has consistently and vehemently stated the QB makes the receiver. If Tannehill were able to connect on an acceptable level of those opportunities and Wallace's production were noticeably improved b/c of it, we'd be hearing from KB how it was all Tannehill and how Tannehill made Wallace. It's a heads I win, tails you lose argument from KB on this. It doesn't matter that Tannehill has said it. Doesn't matter than Philbin has said it. Doesn't matter that the plays themselves say it as Tannehill has left downfield opportunities on the field time after time after time. It's still all Wallace's fault. KB is arguing as if we're talking about Davone Bess's vertical ability rather than the NFL's most productive downfield receiver since 2009. Just absurd.
First of all Wallace was blowing past the Safety. Wallace, from what I can see, opened up to the right because the pass was pretty much over his head, and it was also short. I'd like to see a different angle of the play, because it isn't as if I haven't noticed and questioned to myself how Wallace chose to open up his hips on the play. I would have rather seen Tannehill throw the ball sooner and on target as opposed to waiting until Wallace was already around 50 yards down the field. No matter how you cut it, Wallace would have blown by the DB if the pass wasn't short, and it was short because Tannehill threw it late. I'd rather take my chances on Wallace outrunning the Safety to the ball on the well timed and well placed ball than throw one short and late. One of my problems here is that your stance is that all of these deep ball issues are on Wallace, as evidenced by your comment in post # 455. In this particular play I don't see anyone saying that Wallace probably should not have made that catch, but you take it a step further and say that the RT throw was nearly perfect. If you really think that "It is just Mike" in terms of the deep ball issues between Wallace and RT, it's kind of hard to take you seriously.
And those receivers do not possess the same skillset, the Qb has to adjust to his weapons skillset..the speed Wallace possesses take an adjustment by the Qb to synchronize the play..
Do my research on what? Ridiculous expectations? Tannehill literally lets it fly as soon as Mike Wallace turns his head around for the very first time (when he's at the 25 and in the middle of field). Tannehill gets destroyed half a second later, and yet he puts that ball at the only place where his WR can make the play and the safety cannot.
I've said before that Ryan has the talent to be a good deep thrower, but the adjustment period takes some time, this is a different receiver that he's never had to adjust to in his short Qb career.. On the deep stuff, Wallace may not have the strength in his hands to be a jump ball guy, but that's not the only way to beat your man with his skillset.
