They must've taken into account Tannehills extreme struggles. You can't get anymore open than Wallace has gotten. The fan reaction is the same as Marshall. Fans blames him and gave up on him when he wasn't the main problem. If Wallace had just a qb with average deep ball ability he would be on pace for 1200+ yards. Tannehill has cost him at least 5 tds and roughly 250-300 so far this year. Those are just the plays where he was WIDE open. Desean Jackson's numbers would be cut in half if he were dealing with this staff, oline and qb who can't hit the broad side of a barn downfield.
This year, Tannehill has completed 3 of 10 passes that went 41+ yards beyond the line of scrimmage. That's actually above average. For example, Tom Brady has hit only 2 of 22 over the last 4 seasons.
What was Brady's numbers with Randy Moss on the team? I'm just trying to recall what deep threats there were in NE the past 4 years. Also, what were Ben's numbers with Wallace.
Brady with Moss (2007 & 2009): 10 of 34 (29.5%) Rapist with Wallace (2009 to 2012): 15 of 40 (37.5%) In my estimation, league average is a little below 30%.
When people and media members criticize Tannehill for his deep ball I swear they watch no other teams play. We have to sit here and listen about what a poor deep thrower Tannehill is when in the same game Newton missed all three deep passes. Then in the afternoon Palmer and Luck miss almost all of their deep passes. Then the two icons go head to head and miss almost all of their deep deep passes. Then on Monday night C-Kap overshoot his deep pass to Davis and RG3 misses his deep (and poorly designed I might add) deep pass as well. Fact is people, 40+ yard passes are low percentage for every QB and always has been.
Mike Wallace has cost himself just as many touchdowns with his inability to go up and get the ball or his lack of desire to fight for the ball at all, if not more than Ryan Tannehill's ability to throw the ball down the field has cost him. Look at the 2nd to last play in the Carolina game. If Mike wasn't so crappy at tracking the ball in the air, Ryan Tannehill hits him on a game winning TD pass. The ball was there, and all Mike had to do was run under it. Instead, Mike looked the opposite direction and then changed back to the trajectory of the ball. Mike also cost another big play by stopping his route, which shows his coverage reading inability, another characteristic that made him a bad fit for this offense.
Not when it comes to hitting a WIDE open Wallace. Even when it is a completion the miserable underthrow costs Wallace and the team a td and yards. Carolina game was a perfect example. Coat the team 4 points. The colts game was another example where he actually connected but the throw was so poor Wallace got tackled on the one yard line. Tannehill has the ability to throw deep but he hasn't shown the consistency. Atleast not positive consistency. You seriously can't get anymore open than Wallace has been lately without someone breaking a leg. He does need to do a better job of fighting for the ball but when you have a 5-10 yard cushion you shouldn't need to fight for a jump ball.
ive listened to all sides,and i have my own criticisms of ryan, but im not onw who thinks he cant be a good deep ball passer once he figures some things out..he's got the right talent to be a good one, he can adjust trajetory, he's got serious arm strength, i dont see any inherent issues relative to being a good deep ball thrower.
Trajectory really has nothing to do with his deep ball effectiveness. I'm not sure why everyone thinks that.
So we are going to pretend That: A) The Dolphins at the time did not sign a receiver that was in the top 5 in production in the last 4 years in his prime. B) He has been used correctly. C) The offensive line and play calling is just great. D) That Brandon Marshall's last two seasons in Chicago didn't happen.
Agree, I think he will be fine in due time. I like the fact that the "attempts" were there last Sunday. Eventually those repetitions will lead to future success.
Now, if we could just get the receiver to run routes properly and actually fight for the football.....
Yea, he was the beneficiary of 110 yards worth of GOOD passes in the first half Sunday. He did absolutely nothing but hold his hands up, and RT hit him. Good thing too because those first two deep balls?? Wallace never would've "fought" for the ball and made the play. Life is good.
We have a very expensive and very fast deep threat in Wallace. The deep completions are likely to be game changing, the incompletions are missed big opportunities. The point is, these deep throws to Wallace should be high priority plays and treated as such- I'm more concerned with how these deep throws look- depth, timing, accuracy, etc- rather than analyzing some small sample of data and really giving a s*** as to Tannehill being 2 out of 10 or 3 out of 10, whatever. And that's because what I'm seeing are some poor throws that SHOULD be touchdowns because Wallace is so open and what they end up being either completions that end up in a field goal or missed opportunities. Tannehill has to get better at throwing deep to Wallace, bottom line. Damage has been done by him missing with some very unimpressvie throws. Wallace has to better at adjusting to balls, making the catch. Coaching staff- if Tannehill/Wallace have their timing off HOW ABOUT MAKING THEM ACTUALLY WARM UP TOGETHER PRE-GAME? Maybe not a bad idea? Get a few deep passes under Tannehill's belt before games? Jeez, I can't believe that they don't do that given how off some of RTs deep throws have been. I don't really care if Wallace prefers to warm up by himself, this is more important, bottom line.
I don't agree with that as per the first throw, iirc Wallace had to adjust for it and make the catch, that wasn't a great throw. And with all of these throws, Wallace has to be credited with blowing past his man and getting seriously open each time, again iirc. Btw as top a comment by someone earlier Cam Newton made a pretty darned nice deep throw to Ginn- he dropped it like it was hot, but it was a good throw.
And if he would do that more often, he'd probably have about 500 more yards and 5 more TDs right now. Then, if he could learn to run a full route tree, maybe he might be worth that big contract. As it is, he's a one trick pony who isn't really that good at what he does.
Agree he needs to refine his routes, disagree he isn't executing that one trick. He has toasted top DBS consistently this season, that's a big deal when RT improves on his deep ball.
He may toast them, but he is horrible at finding the ball and tracking it in the air. Essentially, we are asking to do things no quarterback in the league can do, and that is throw every down the field throw at a higher accuracy rate than any other quarterback in the league has ever done. All the same time, we aren't asking our $60 million receiver to play like Calvin Johnson and just go up and get the damn ball.
Agreed, but how about RT and Wallace actually practice the one fricking thing that Wallace excels at during pre-game warmups? Wallace could do a better job adjusting for and catching deep balls, that last play of the game should have been a Wallace catch, and I think a TD, because Wallace went right down with the ball as it went through his hands. If he catches it I think he stays on his feet an extra fraction of a second and it's a game winning TD. Wallace may be an expensive one trick pony, but that's an expensive pony and a valuable one. The have to maximize the value and effect of the deep balls to Wallace. As to Tannehill- I think that he can throw good deep balls, but he hasn't been. Stat reading doesn't tell you all you need to know about the quality of the throws being made. Every freaking one of the four could have been and maybe should have been TDs. That easily could have been a Hartline-esque game for Wallace as per that mongo game of Hartline last year. If two of those passes go for TDs it's a different ballgame. I blame Wallace for the Hail Mary pass, Tannehill for the first three. Again, this... Wallace said he and Tannehill get enough work together on deep balls during practice. Still, it’s curious that whereas Tannehill throws to Brian Hartline before games, he doesn’t do the same with Wallace. Why is that? “I think it’s just something where that’s not what he does,” Tannehill said. “When we kind of started the preseason games and started getting into routines, that’s just not what he does. Everyone has their own way of getting into it. I don’t think the deep ball is affected by that. He’s open, I just have to throw it out there for him. It's two games in a row where he’s been behind the defense.…I’ve just have to trust it and let it rip. We talked to coach Philbin yesterday and that’s one of the things he told me. Just go out there and let it rip.” Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/spor...nehill-wallace-wade-um-qbs.html#storylink=cpy pisses me off.
What we're asking Tannehill to do is to hit a wide open Wallace on deep throws, and I mean wide open. I don;t see anyone asking for perfection, but I would say that some of RTs deep balls to Wallace have been below average. These are throws that should end up being TD's because Wallace is so open and so fast to get in the endzone with a decent throw. Tannehill veered toward poorly underthrown or slightly overthrown- multiple TDs should have resulted from those 4 passes to Wallace.
You must not have watched Calvin Johnson play this past Sunday, it's moot because NO WR IN THE NFL has the all around skillset that guy does. Wallace isn't that type of WR, that's been obvious to everyone. His contract matters not to me, my excitement for Wallace was his ability to keep the back end of defenses honest allowing for the intermediate guys to have room to work. He has done that. The other thing I was anxious to see was him make BIG plays in the passing game. He has at the very least done a good job at that, he can't block for RT and he can't throw to himself. He is low on the totem pole of reasons why we can't make a play on offense.
No. What we are asking Ryan to do is hit Mike in stride on every down the field throw when pretty much every receiver in the NFL has to slow down in their route to catch a throw that long. We are doing that without asking Mike to make any adjustments in his speed or his route to make a play on the ball. Those that criticize Ryan for his down the field throws seem to miss Flacco and Stafford and Newton underthrowing the very same throws. Basically, we are asking Ryan to throw the ball into a bucket at 60 yards when no quarterback in the NFL is that accurate.
If we all really want to get deep with this issue, we have to recognize Wallace' fit within this offense. This offence probably has the most sophisticated passing game in the league. It is predicated on precise timing, receivers capable of running an entire route tree, receivers capable of lining up anywhere and receivers who's playing speed has a degree of synchronicity. Wallace does not fit any of these requirements. We talk about how best to utilize Wallace' skills but look at it from a DC's perspective. He only has to gameplan for about three routes, none of which Wallace runs particularly well. There's a reason Tannehill's rating is high when not throwing to Wallace but abysmal when throwing to Wallace.
Well, what would you say to the notion that Tannehill should be releasing the ball sooner on the deep throws to Wallace? Wouldn't that not only make it more likely to hit Wallace in stride but also make it a shorter, easier and better throw from Tannehill? If Tannehill is trying to throw the ball into a bucket at 60 yards, I'd suggest that he look at the man in the mirror about that. No one is asking for Marino type anticipation over here, but I'd say that Tannehill is below average when it comes to that.
Nobody is asking him to do that, his own coach said let it rip. I was happy to see him overthrow Wallace for once this past Sunday, because all the other throws have been very poorly under thrown or out of bounds. Alen had a nice piece on Tannehill's inability to anticipate an open WR. Perhaps Ryan needs to release the ball when Wallace is blowing by these DBS and not after Mike has separated from them. That makes a 50 yard pass in the air a 40 yard pass in the air.
I have never really noted that Tannehill has issues anticipating his throws. The two TD passes (one dropped) to Matthews shows this. What he does lack is trust in his receivers to be where they are supposed to be. Look at the slant route to Wallace this past game. For some inexplicable reason, Wallace misread the coverage and stopped his route. What should have been a big gainer and/or long TD could have been picked and sent the other way. This is where QBs lose faith in their receivers.
I don't want Wallace to spring 40 yards-50 yards a few times, before a game. Practice it in practice, so Wallace can recuperate and run them during the game. Tannehill doesn't need to throw it harder or longer. He needs to recognize the route earlier and get the ball out of his hands. In the video posted in the other thread Ben hits Wallace at 41 yards (from scrimmage not taking into account angles) in stride, but started throwing the ball at 2.1 seconds after the snap, and this includes a play fake. If Tannehill is deciding at 2.5 or 3 seconds to throw the ball on a go route it's too late. Pennington threw softer than a retired female softball pitcher but he was able to make some deep (relatively) passes because he recognized the route earlier, and got the ball out earlier. He'd have to rainbow the ball but his timing was impeccable for such a weak arm. Tanny's underthrows are really not underthrows, but late throws.
