To me that seems awfully high. I'd be interested to know the real answer to that (I know there is no way for you to prove your theory, it is just interesting is all ).
This assumption is wrong on so many levels I dont even know where to begin. Its one thing to have no interest in seeing a movie, but you should educate yourself on the matter before making statements like this.
http://www.home60515.com/3.html http://www.conservapedia.com/Sexual_Abuse_Being_a_Contributing_Factor_for_Homosexuality The second bit comes from an obviously conservative site but its just citing a study from another doctor so I think its fairly legit. Seems 90% is a bit high but personally I think the percentage of homosexuals who have been abused is a lot higher then 46 and 22 percent. Bro, trust me when I say I know a whole hell of a lot about the world of sexual abuse. I'm not a psychologist but its something that life and situations have taught me a lot more about then I had ever wanted to know. And it does have a massive, massive impact on a persons view of their own sexuality. Ask any psychologist and they will tell you that.
Im not going to argue as this is not the correct forum. But those numbers mean nothing to me. Its flawed logic that attempts to prove homosexuality is deviant behavior. Brokeback Mountain was a great film IMO. Its not a movie for everyone but I think some would be surprised if they gave it a chance.
An opinion you are certainly entitled to. Its very hard to get a handle on because most sexual abuse goes unreported and is never talked about. I have seen numbers that go as high as 80% of cases going unreported which obviously makes it very, very hard to get reliable stats on the issue. No one wants to talk about it. I mean if you go up to a person (regardless of orientation) and say, "hey were you molested as a kid"? The answer is (rightly) going to be "None of you dam business". After thinking about it a bit 90% is probably high but I would guess somewhere around 70% is about right. Purely my opinion based on what I have seen and the effects of abuse. Regardless of how someone ends up gay though I still think they are every bit as valuable as people as anyone else, I don't hate them, even though I feel its wrong. I hope I was able to say that in an inoffensive way as possible. I just know know that some Christians have done a VERY bad job of relating to this subject and have vilified gays as sub human beings, something that I disagree with in the strongest possible terms. I think its possible to disagree with someones lifestyle choices but still value them as people and not treat them like dirt.
For every one or two gay/lesbians that were sexually abused when they were kids and then turned out to be gay, I can show you 5 or 6 more than werent. Theory debunked.
I appreciate a good film making no matter what the subject matter. This was a very well made movie. There were some parts that were difficult to watch, but nothing that will make you lose your lunch.
I find that odd as well, though like I said its hard to get accurate numbers on a subject that no one wants to talk about.
Actually stats show that gay people were abused at the same rate as straight people, and that it has nothing to do with their sexual orientation. There is one scene you might find objectionable, but it lasts a total of 1 minute. But I just find it amusing the way this thread makes some guys wiggle and squirm You get the Sinefeld "Oh I hate that, but theres really nothing wrong with it" attitude.
How do I answer this without becoming angry ? Trust me, bro, no one chooses to be gay. How many times do we have to shout this from the mountain tops ? Why would anyone consiously (spelling ?) choose to be different from the majority, especially since it usually brings so much ridicule and hurt ? I will ask this, when did you choose to be straight ? It follows logically that if you assume some "choose" to be gay, then everyone else "choose" to be straight. Do you remember the day you made that choice ? I think it would be very high on your days to celebrate every year. Now do you see how silly that notion that gay/lesbian/bi-sexual/transgendered people choose they way they feel. I have known since I was about 8 and when all the boys in PE clamered to see the pic one kid had torn out of his dad's Playboy, and I could have cared less. I knew from that point on I was "different", and soon after I knew I was attracted to men with big muscles. The rest is history. I didn't choose to feel that way, but it just was natural for me to feel that way. Much like it became natural for you to feel attracted to females.
Males, gay or straight, are usually less likely to report any sexual abuse. That is something I think all of us would agree upon. Its a sign of weakness for men to admit something like that, and our society looks upon men that admit to this as weak and effiminate.
I was making a joke bro (an unfunny one). I have seen the movie and yes, Anne Hathaway does def have a nice set
My understanding is many women do no report it either though (that may be older women though), so I just expected numbers to be about equal. And I don't think sexual abuse has any part in sexual preference, though I do think it could play a part in fetishes (subconsciously). PS: Sorry if I have thrown your thread off track, not my intention.
Sorry bro, I do see now you have said in another post you saw the flick. Cancel my post except the fact that Anne Hathaway does have a really nice set of knockers, and this is a gay man saying it
No problem, but I knew this thread would "go there" but I did just want to make sure people had the chance to find out that the movie was out there for them to see if they wanted to see it. Its the price we pay, as GLBT people, the constant attack upon our character and it usually ends up with us having to become defensive and fighting off the old stereotypes. All the time I get confused looks from guys & gals I have met because I care more about sports and feel more comfortable in a sports bar than a gay "dance" club. It just goes against all the things they have been taught, that I should be more into decorating, and baking and talking gossip, because I'm not supposed to be a "man" but a limp-wristed lisping and mincing queen. (God I hate those types of guys )
I guess Ill come out and say it since this a pretty safe place to exchange ideas and things about ourselves without having to succumb to pressures of society. I dont consider myself gay or even bi-sexual, I would say though I am bi-curious, though no one whos knows me knows that. I love women and enjoy having sex with them, and I like having relationships with them. But Ive also wondered about what it would be like to do stuff with a guy. That doesnt mean I want to be with one romantically or whatever, but there is a natural curiosity. Let's face it, when were kids we were curious about our sexuality. We also know that its hard to experiment with the opposite when youre that age(pre-middle school), so you usually experiment with the same sex, right? That doesnt mean Im attracted to guys, but there is a certain level of curiosity that comes with sex for some people. I think a lot of women are this way as well, but theyre a lot more comfortable about being bi-curious and actually acting out on it. Its part of our lovely double standards in society. Its also one of the reasons why I cannot just categorize people when it comes this type of stuff. Human sexuality is too complex to just break it down to "gay, straight, bisexual".
I think the reason that those stereotypes are so strong is because a lot of gay people go out of their way to keep them alive. The one thing I dont understand about gay or lesbian culture is that I see a lot of these guys or girls talk about how they just want to be treated equal or normal like everyone else. Then, I see the same people having these huge flamboyant parades etc. and going out of their way to be over the top and make a spectacle. To me that makes absolutely 0 sense. Do I as a straight man, feel the need to have a parade and announce to the world how straight I am and how much I love women? def not. Doing something like that just makes me think their either 1) looking for attention or 2) not comfortable with who they are (which sounds strange given the situation). I'm not trying to bash you or anything bc from your post above, your probably more annoyed with those kinds of things then I am lol. I'm just saying that from my perspective, those stereotypes stay strong bc thats what most people see and obviously thats much more dramatic so people remember it. I'd almost go on a limb and say that most gay/lesbians arent well recieved by some straight people bc their mostly seen in the flamboyant sense that these groups make more prominent.
That's because you're in the majority. You're not told it's wrong to feel the way you do. There's a reason those flamoyant displays generally take place at events called "Pride." Look at it this way. What if everyone told you, "Hey, it's ok if you're a Dolphins fan. Just don't rub it in my face." You'd probably show up for work the next day decked out in as much Dolphin paraphenalia as you could find.
Thats a great take. I asked my uncle who happens to be gay about pride parades and he used a similar analogy. He said it would be like living in France and everyone there telling you it was wrong to be American. Not only that, but you're going to Hell for being American. When thought of in those terms, Id probably flaunt it a little if I were in that situation.
With that example, I can definitely say that I wouldnt respond like that. I'm not one of those people who cant talk about football for 2 mins without name dropping my fav team (and its not bc Im not a big fan). Same thing applies to my sexuality I guess. Im the biggest fan of @@@@@ as you'll ever meet, but Im def not the guy that needs to run around and act like an *** because Im so heterosexual. I just think that the idea of "rubbing it in peoples faces" and those overly flamboyant acts are the same reasons that those stereotypes that I was talking about in my first post, stay strong. Maybe thats my opinion bc Im not the one saying "O, its ok I guess" or "No thats wrong". My opinion has always been more relaxed I guess. I really dont see the big deal that needs to be made over sexuality one way or the other. Therefore, when I see a dramatic display (whether its a pride parade, or bush talking about how big a deal gay marriage is), I just shake my head and think its unneccessary.
That analogy makes a little more sense. I guess everyone would have their own way of dealing with it. But I still think that dealing with it in a flamboYant way is what leads to a lot of those stereotypes.
Bro I'm very sorry if I offended you, it was definitely not my intention and as I said before I don't want to be that Christian sitting on his high horse throwing poo. I am just a guy on a message board and I'm not going to try and pretend that I know you or all the factors that can makes a person be gay or straight be they inborn or not but I absolutely stand by the opinion that many people who live the homosexual lifestyle have been abused and that it had a major impact on where they ended up. Like I said before, ask any good shrink and they can tell you that when a person is sexually abused it absolutely brings into question issues of sexuality that were not there prior to the abuse. And check your PM's.
How did a topic on BB mountain turn into an all out discussion about gay, vs. straight, abused vs. not? Geez...
I would expect that most instances of males being raped/sexually assaulted would be lower just because of the macho society we live in.
Most experts will agree, and bro, you are more "Normal" than you would think. Sex experts have taken study after study and it has shown that most people fall somewhere between 90% straight and 10% gay. For myself, I would have to say I am one of those that is about 90% gay. The only time I have felt attracted to a female is when I have seen very muscular women. And even then its not a great deal of attraction. I don't know what that is, maybe perhaps because I have what some would call a "muscle fetish" as my needs don't usually center around "gay sex" as per sé (I'm not sure how technical I can get here without violating the rules). I am content with what is called "Muscle Worship" and taking care of my own thing - if you get my drift. (MODS STEP IN & EDIT IF THIS IS TOO MUCH). I wish I could say more but I am afraid this would be too much on a site like this. Its very very few people (those being completely honest to the experts and to themselves) that can say with a clear conscience that they have never thought about doing it with someone of the same sex. This does not mean you are gay, bi-sexual or anything of the sort. Most people do experiment with these feelings at younger ages too, 12-13-14 or 15. But those that haven't explored this side of their sexuality do often do this after years of marriage. My 2nd lover, Roger, had been married and with 2 kids (he is now a grandfather 4 times over) and when he reached the age of 37 or 38 decided he needed to live his life as he wanted to. He has experimented with the guy who lived across the street from him when he was growing up (and who is now a Sgt with the Burbank Police Dept and a family man himself) and always knew he had these feelings inside of him. He did much as I did for many years and that was try to use religion to shake off the gay feelings. I was brought up a very conservative Southern Baptist, and it was drilled into me from 12 or 13 years old, that Gay people will go to hell, and that they are mean, selfish, self-centered people, who disdain God and His laws and are evil, wicked people who deserve to die. Think about how this sits with a kid that is 16 or 17 and knows he is gay ? How do you think I felt ? I hated myself, and thought I was an evil terrible person, who deserved to be hurt, hated and anything bad that could happen, should happen to me. I was a loner in school, a nerd, who played in the band. I was skinny (6ft 2 and 135 lbs) who was called queer and f*ggot, even thought I didn't act like that. I felt sooooo guilty everytime a kid called me that instead of fighting back, I accepted it, because I was gay, and then couldn't understand how they knew. Jr High and High School was not a good time for me at all. I had to live a lie, to myself, and to everyone else, especially my family to remain accepted. I was afraid if it was discovered I was gay, I would be out on the street, alone, cold and probably dead in a week. Straight people have no idea what it is like to live in terror of being found out, and having to live a lie. Gay men & women also kind of learn to figure out others that are gay, and are always looking for the "signs" of others that are in our position. We call it "Gaydar" and its things we can pickup in conversation, or signals others give out to tell us they are receptive. Often times we can misinterpret this signals and that is often when gay-bashing like Matthew Sheppard occur. So FinSane when you say you have thought about it with the same sex, don't think you are wierd or "not-normal", you are very normal. Many of the guys on this board will, I am sure, very vehemently deny they have every thought about another guy, but in many cases are just lying to themselves.
Look at what happens in prison. Gay sex there is viewed as a "power and dominance" thing. Very few men inside who commit those sex acts would be considered homosexual on the outside. The same can be said for men in street gangs. Leaders of gangs will force younger recruits into sex acts to hold it over there heads.
Dolphan117, you don't offend me really bro, but what does offend me, is when people assume just because I am gay, that I am not a Christian. I go to Coral Gables Congregational Church, a member Church of the United Church of Christ, which is the ONLY mainstream Christian sect to accept & sanctify sexually diverse people, and perform Church sanctioned marriages performed by the pastor. (They are not legal unions except in the states where gay marriage is legal, like Mass & Cali). I am a regular participating member, and even hold a Bible Study class in my home once a month. http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/spirituality/a/UCC.htm There is the Metropolitan Community Church, which was founded in 1968 by some disgruntled gay Evangelicals in Los Angeles, but the MCC has never claimed more than about 50,000 members. The UCC has more than 1.3 million members, and is the 9th largest membership in the US of any Christian sect. I cannot dispute your personal story of abuse, or your opinions on what abuse does to people. The only abuse I took was verbal from hot-head dorks in school, who used to pick on me because I was the skinny, nerdy guy with glasses who was terrible at sports and was afraid of the guys who were big and strong. It was such a dichotomy for me, here I am afraid of these guys because they make fun of me, punch me for no reason, hit my glasses off my face and kick me in the backside, and then laugh about it, but I am attracted to them sexually because they have what I am attracted to -- muscles. Sit back for a moment and take all of that in. I think I have come quite a ways to even be able to sit here and type this openly on a board that is dominated by "he man macho" types, many of which were the kind of guys who did those mean & unwarrented acts on me so very many years ago.
I have zero desire to watch that movie. In fact I would have zero desire to watch that movie if it was with a woman and a man. It has chick flick writen all over it. It has nothing to do with being afraid. I am not a fan of watching guy love. I am physically repulsed by it. However I am also physically repulsed by people chewing gum. Both are things I do not want to do. If you want to do it, more power to you.
Now don't be hard on yourself bro...... I am not mad, just in a mood to explain stuff. This is dear to my heart because I live it everyday. The whole point was to bring awareness that the movie is on, and some guys who haven't watched it because they are afraid of what others might say or think, will now have the chance to see a movie that moved many people who saw it, to think and reassess their opinions on gay people, and the life & trials we deal with. Some people just see it as a classic love tragedy, of a love that was never meant to be. Your take is what you make of it.
I just want you to sit back and comprehend your line of thought. Just because some gay people act up in parades, then all gay people are just some sick homos who cause these stereotypes to be perpetuated. Interesting take.... So according to your logic -- a) just because some Southern people are racist pigs, who call African-Americans the n-word, and inbreed with their sisters & cousins, chew tobacco and are high-school dropouts and wear white sheets to Klan meetings, then all Southerns are just awful nasty people. b) and those Mexicans who come here to the US illegally are all here to soak up welfare & take from our social benefits system, even though many of them are doing jobs that you & I would never dream of dirtying our hands with. or c) those nasty Jets fans that invade Dolphin Stadium are just ignorant loud-mouthed fools who run their traps even though their team has an overall losing record through the years and hasn't done diddlysquat since Jan 1969, so all Jets fans are just jerks ...oops bad example that last one is true (see even the f*ggot has a sense of humor )
I was repulsed by some of the scenes in Shindler's List, but it was a movie with a very important message to get across. That doesn't mean I didn't watch it, and try to expand my experience of what that was like to live through. Same goes with Saving Private Ryan. The 1st 20 minutes are just downright gross, but extremely important for our young people to see, so that they can understand the sacrifices The Greatest Generation made so that you & I are still free today to debate here on this board. If you don't want to watch it fine, but to label something without even giving it a chance is just always in your best interest. Hopefully, one day Dupree you'll be more open, and if you do watch it, maybe it'll make you see things in a different light.
