Shocked after I went back and rewatched the Ravens game

Why would it divide along that? Blame OL or QB Ireland picked them both.

 

Hell if I know.

 

This pretty much illustrates the fundamental problem. There should not be an OL vs. QB issue.

 

I just said it's probably a coincidence. I was merely pointing out that the phenomenon does exist, for whatever reason.

 

How do we feel about running an offense that requires strict pocket execution, or one that is training the Qb not to use his instincts/full skillset to make some plays?, do these growing pains (sacks) have long term positive results in this offensive philosophy?

Is this truly the direction we should be going in today's game?...

It's not where I wanted to go, but I'm sure trying to understand both sides..

Has anyone watched Terrelle Pryor play ball this year..I was a fan, and he's looked very good this year, and that's because he can threaten a defense in multiple ways, and has talent in the arm and legs, I thought this was the idea when it comes to offense..

 

I don't think there is. I think they are both part of the problem.

 

Idk. They aren't ignorant of Tanny's ability to move (obviously). I wish I had a better memory of Aaron Rodgers in his first year or two of starting and if his ability to move in an out of the pocket improved over time

The philosophy seems to have little regard for committing to the run and as CK said, they are throwing Tanny out there and expecting him to more or less be Peyton Manning. My question would be if that is really how Philbin sees Tanny? Does Philbin evaluate Tannehill and see no reason why he can't be Aaron Rodgers and is coaching him that way?

 

Hard to evaluate and have a mindset for a QB when his progressions, pocket presence and ability to move in the pocket when the protection is breaking down at more than one O-Line position on any given play.

 

It gives me some hope that there is a big picture involved and why it looks as though Ryan is so lethargic in the pocket when he actually tries to escape, ( little different the maneuvering in the pocket) and that is because he's just late because of what he's trying to do for the scheme.

 

Patience...experience will help..

 

I don't disagree with you. I think we need to do it more, moving Tannehill around, just to keep the defence guessing a little more. I wish we'd stack receivers and run pick plays, more double screens and RB screens on first down instead of 3rd and long. I think we can assist the Oline by not being so stubborn in not moving RT. Your post below seems like the are trying to teach him to last just a little longer in the pocket than most mobile or young qbs for the sake of the scheme. I just think we could add wrinkles in that doesn't hurt the scheme because our oline isn't allowing the scheme to be worked to perfection anyway. Next offseason I hope people are ready for a big boy draft.

 

Must trust coach on this...so we have at least a reason why it doesn't look so good coming from Ryan..besides the fact that is protection is below average, and no run game.

 

Another thing I would bring up when it comes to Ryan improving is the screen game, he is not crafty in this dept at this stage, and is not fooling anybody when it is a screen, it just loks really uncomfortable for him, like he can't sell the defense that it isn't coming.

I do agree that the boot game should be part of our offense if that's not too much to ask from a guy who has great dexterity going left and right on the run.

 

There isn't, it's clearly the OL at fault.

 

I'll ignore the personal insult and answer your question. Because there is a logical answer. Nobody pinning it on the QB is trying to say Tannehill is a bust. They are taking the approach that Tannehill is still young and inexperienced. Hence, it's ok to blame him for the problems without laying any blame on Ireland. The OL is another story altogether. Ireland has been working on it since he arrived and it's still a heaping pile of ****. Way too hard to blame the team's problems on the offensive line without questioning Ireland's track record as a GM.

So there you have it. That's why the lines of this debate correlate with Jeff Ireland debate. Deny it all you want. But it's as real as gravity.

 

But you're ignoring the fact that OLine talent that Ireland procured is thriving elsewhere after being jettisoned by Sparano and Degugs. We also have it on HK that Philbin, a former OLine coach, asked for Steinbeck to be signed and was. There is ample evidence that talent is being brought in and simply not developed by the coaching staff past and present, or that the staff is allowing nepotism to get in the way of putting a better quality product on the field.

If anything, I fault Ireland for allowing the nepotism among the staff and their chosen players as it had a negative impact both during Sparano's tenure and now Philbin's.

 

Whoevers idea it was to sign that guy should reevaluate what the heck their looking for in an Olineman, I have two hope when it comes to signing that guy...first and foremost, it was a favor...2nd, our GM had nothing to do with it..

 

I do not blame Ireland for Clabo, not at all, he WAS a solid, consistent performer in Atlanta who should not be over the hill by any stretch.

John Jerry on the other hand, came at a massive opportunity cost.

As for the Staff, did not see Turner getting steamrolled on Sunday, those guys were being punked all on their own, had nothing to do with scheme.

 

Who pinned it on the QB? The assessment of the QB and the assessment of the OL are mutually exclusive. The fact that Jon Martin got blown up by Terrell Suggs doesn't change the fact that Ryan Tannehill did a ****ty job managing the pocket. Not everything needs to become some type of grand indictment of the past 5 years.


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I'm not gonna absolve the man doing the hiring because of perception, there were plenty of signs the dude was washed up..

 

Nope, consistently top 10 per PFF, even last yr.

 

If a GM is signing people off of what PFF says then they shouldn't be a GM..

I thought his movement skill, strength, and body, was shady..

 

Exactly what I was saying... you just said it...better

It's easy to look at those frames and say Tannehill has so much room to step up, but people are forgetting the consequences of that because Martin has lost all leverage in the play because he was beaten so badly, Suggs can just push off and be all over Tannehill instantly. It puts him in a better position to make the play.

 

Love it RT gets rid too soon, hr panics, he gets sacked he holds it too long.

When is it RT is learning what expect from the Oline since it changes weekly in that one wee its from the left next right next up the middle next its blitz pickup?

 

I think I heard something yesterday, that Tannehill was sacked on 4 of his last 15 drop backs. If so, yikes (especially since I think there were like 3 or 4 drops in those 15 drop backs too).

 

our starting offensive line hasn´t missed a snap yet all season, this is pretty remarkable they all have played 308 snaps for 100 %, they just don´t seem to gel at all

 

I think those still frames are really skewed. You can look at those and say look at all the room. The reality of the situation is that with things moving so fast, there really isn't much there.

I agree that it's an issue for both. I think Tannehill locks onto a guy and his awareness needs work. However, I believe the offensive line is just bad. Really bad. Historically bad.

For me, even if Tannehill improves his awareness and movement, the pressure is still the issue. So, why not improve the line? We've just been able to do so.

 

When people are putting some blame on Tannehill, none of them are saying the line is playing well.

The line is playing very poor.

The pass protection from runningbacks and tightends is poor.

Ryan Tannehill ability to escape, pocket awareness and ability to throw the ball away to avoid a sack is poor.

IMO, the fact that the sack rate is so high is because of all of those factors. While Brady, Brees or Manning would probably be sacked too many times in this offense, I highly doubt they would be sacked at a record breaking pace.

 

I don't think the above agrees with the original post of this thread at all.

Below is the start of the original post in this thread:

I there's a pretty big gulf of disagreement between your acknowledgement that the line is playing "very poor" and the original sentiment expressed in this thread (which has been agreed with by many) that the line "wasn't bad. AT ALL."

 

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ClxFYIThbAE

Sorry fin, I forgot how to imbed..shout out to the Docta for being on the same page as me.

Anyways, look at the tape from college and tell me they are not constricting him to the pocket...

It isn't a question anymore whether they are or not, the question is, is pocket passing the way to go to a championship or should we be utilizing what you see in the video??... I mean those first three plays are beautiful, the kid can go left or right with ease, and last I checked there is such a thing as the boot game and the read option..

It's mindblowing to me that they are taking this approach because they believe in the long run, execution from the pocket is more important than being multiple from the position, I'm not saying mindblowing as in its wrong, just that it's a fascinating subject.

 

Was there some suggestion by Tannehill or the coaching staff that they're constricting him to the pocket? Or is this just a theory based on his play thus far?

 

he would probably kill for protection like that right now

 

I've posted some comments from Philbin that suggest that they want him to hang in the pocket at all costs because of his offensive theories...my point I'm making with the vid is that it seems pretty obvious that his game this year somewhat reflects that philosophy..

Is college that much different from the pros when it comes to pocket passing?, why is it that Sherman doesn't seem to want to use the entire skillset to run offense, or, are they just completely focused on the development of a pocket Qb so they don't want any bad habits to develop by giving him the freedom to escape?