Shocked after I went back and rewatched the Ravens game

Some people have the ability to turn anything into a positive. Sometimes this is good and other times it is merely the fact that this person can't see the forest for the trees.

The Dolphins OL is terrible and there is no other way to view it. They can't run block and they can't pass block. Obviously they have some plays in a game where they actually perform okay. It is the totality of the game that matters in the end and when all is said and done after the game is over, there is no denying that this is one of the worst OL's in the NFL at this time and perhaps the worst OL in the entire history of the Miami Dolphins.

 

Because it's one instance of blind side pressure and doesn't show you how quickly Martin got abused on the play?

 

There is plenty of space for Tannehill to operate. All he has to do is take a couple of steps to the open space. Yes, its coming from his blind side, but if he sees a clear pocket in front of him, he needs to move there.

 

The pocket is done? There is clearly space for Tannehill to move up. Instead he stays at the same point. He needs to take one step up and one step to the right. That will give him extra time. Thats pretty basic stuff for a QB.

 

Quarterbacks don't easily feel pressure from the blind side. That's why it's called the blind side.

 

Which is why when he has open space in front of him, he needs to use it, rather than gamble with whats happening on the blind side. Especially when you have Jon Martin 1v1 against Terrell Suggs.

 

So do you expect him to do that every play? It's been maybe 2 seconds at most.

 

And if he does take that one step forward, and to the right, its pretty simple for the DE to push off Martin because Martin would be so out of position, and still drill Tannehill from behind, or swat the ball out of his hands because Martin has been pushed straight back, rather than driving the DE wide to the outside. If Martin's back was to Tannehill and he had control of his man, its not easy for that DE to get off the block and make the play. Because Martin is driven straight back, its easy for the DE to disengage and basically have a free shot at the QB, or at least draw a hold on Martin as Martin fights for his life tugging at the back of his jersey to save Ryan.

 

I don't expect anything to happen. If he wants to be a successful QB in this league, among the top-15, then he needs to do better in that play I posted. He needs to put himself in better positions within the pocket. That would be good pocket management.

If he wants to be an elite QB, among the top 5-7 in the league, then he needs to be able to goad Suggs into going outside on Jon Martin, then step up so that Suggs runs himself out of the play. That would be elite pocket management.

 

I had Suggs making contact with Tannehill on the play within 2.5 seconds of the snap.

 

One play. A hit from the blind side that happened in 2.5 seconds.

Just want to make sure we clarify what we're talking about here.

 

That pump fake for me was devastating. I didn't realize Tannehill had small hands until then. Nine inches across. Mine are 8 3/4 and I would not feel comfortable pump faking a new NFL football in a game.

Also the flat trajectory deep ball is a complete miss-match with a receiver like Wallace.

 

Yes, I understand its difficult. I don't think anyone disagrees that becoming a winning NFL QB is no easy task. Thats why these guys make $20M/yr. when they prove they can do those things.

 

So hits from the blind side within 2.5 seconds of the snap don't happen don't happen to good quarterbacks?

 

No, the fact that the QB was sacked within 2.5 seconds from the blind side isn't the problem. The result isn't the issue here. The problem is that the QB stayed in the same spot and didn't use the space he had available. He relied on his blindside being protected, when he could have given himself insurance against that gamble.

 

Failing is one thing. Not even trying is another ...

 

The bright side is that we have seen Tannehill do it at times. IIRC there was a throw against the Falcons late in the game where he stepped up in the pocket to avoid pressure just enough to get the ball out before getting hit. He needs to make that play more consistently.

The 4th down conversion to Gibson was an amazing play. But instead of seeing it once every 2-3 games, we need to see that type of play 2-3 times per game, if he wants to become a top-10ish QB in this league.

 

Yes that was a thing of beauty! At that point I knew we were going to win or tie the game ...

 

Interesting. In this thread and others I'm starting to see a bit of a "Homer's Dilemma" developing. The problem the last 2 games and even in the previous 3 wins has been the QB getting sacked / pressured. You see people laying that either on the O-Line or Tannehill. I'm starting to see some of the very vocal Jeff Ireland supporters leaning towards pinning it on Tannehill instead of the O-line which was a huge question mark going into this season based on how Ireland addressed it. But most fans who are more glass half full type of fans also support the QB through thick and thin much like the support Ireland has received throughout his tenure, thus creating the dilemma. It will be interesting to see how this plays out on this board if the problem continues. The blame has to go somewhere. Will it be Pasty Leg's O-line? Or our young QB. Personally I think Tannehill is working magic considering the piss poor protection he is receiving, but that's just me.

 

I think this is the fundamental problem.

 

The 4th and 10 play shows exactly what RT is capable of, but from the Coaches comments they don't want him to be running all the time. They want him to hold in the pocket. Our offence is based on each route helping the other routes on the field. This is why rollouts hurt our offence because they cut off half the field and change what we are trying to dictate to the defence in the passing game. I think Ryan is being told to stay in the pocket until he can't anymore. In our case it causes a high amount of sacks that happen quickly. The 4th and 10 play he had to make a play and did or it was game over. I wish they would let him do this a little more. I'd like to see us run some naked bootlegs to the sideline. I find GB does it all the time with Rodgers and it helps slow the rush down a bit. We need to also work on our screen game to help with the pressures. I think Philbin's philosopy on not leaving the pocket is the same as in GB where Rodgers is also sacked alot. They'd rather take the sack then throw an int or at least cause the chances of that happening go up.

 

So you prefer your quarterbacks to throw off their timing unnecessarily within about a second of the snap on the basis of "just in case"?

And you can prove that the good quarterbacks in this league don't ever stay at their setup spot for 2.5 seconds?

 

Moving in the pocket should not throw off a QBs timing.

 

This is a bad comparison, but I will do it nonetheless......

Peyton Manning's feet are alway moving. I watched the game against a solid Dallas d-line and came away very impressed with Manning's ability to "manage the pocket".

The reason I make this comparison is to simply point out that his receivers' routes are 'timed' and if it is not there 'in time', the receiver breaks to a particular spot that gives Manning a chance. This takes both QB and receiver being on the same page.

We just do not have that here. Wallace isn't on the same page as Tannehill or vice versa. Hartline seems to be. But that is one side of the field. Gibson is certainly impressing as well.

My point might be is that there seems to be some miscommunication SOMEWHERE; from either coaches to players, players to players, etc.

Where is that miscommunication and how does it get fixed is the $50,000 question.

 

I think the issue is it is happening so quickly he doesn't have time to let things develop. it seems almost every play he has big bodies right in his face or surrounding him. if the OL could give him 3 seconds and let things start to develop then I would say he is holding on too long. he doesn't even get a chance to set normally before the pocket is done. if the defense can reach out and literally touch him in less than 2.5 seconds then the issue is on the OL. to expect our young QB to be truly productive with so little time is absurd. he just isn't going to develop a true sense of pocket until the OL can give him a good pocket to work from. it starts with the OL.

 

it would be interesting to know what the coaches are saying to Thill during the film study.

 

Man. Drew Brees sucks at managing the pocket. I'm staring at a play where he dropped back from a shotgun stance, had a perfectly clear pocket in front of him but only moved up into it about a yard. He just sat there. He should've known that blind side pressure could be coming at him and so he should step up into the pocket further just in case.

I mean, play gained 39 yards because his offensive line gave him 3 seconds to throw the ball, but...whatever. Terrible quarterback.

 

God, Drew Brees just did it again. Takes a play-action pass and turns around and just sits in his setup spot with a clear pocket in front of him. He's still in his setup spot 3.2 seconds after the play begins. Why do people think this guy is good?

Note: Play gained 38 yards

 

So youre expecting him to read the defense, go through his progression, and use the eyes on the back of his head to see his LT getting manhandled; doing all of this significantly faster than almost all he other quarterbacks in the league do?

 

Sarcasm aside, when people are bringing up that play as a perfect example of why Tannehill is not managing the pocket well I think they're not having any appreciation for how it is REGULARLY done elsewhere in the NFL even by the best of the best quarterbacks. I think there's tunnel vision happening because there's a problem, people know there's a problem because they know the results already and are looking back in hindsight, and so people are trying to figure out the sources of that problem. So any detail no matter how common by NFL standards starts to become a source of the problem.

But here is the reality of that play. Jonathan Martin the blind side protector got beat. Bad. He got beat on his inside post leg. That's a problem for any quarterback. He did not just get beat around the outside shoulder and end up with a sack-strip because the quarterback stood at his setup spot for 3+ seconds. With Martin getting beaten on the inside shoulder, stepping up would not have helped Ryan Tannehill on the play. All he would have been doing would be stepping up and giving Terrell Suggs an even more favorable angle.

The obvious is the obvious, on this play. Jonathan Martin got beat. He let up a sack. And that's really all there is of significance to say on it.

 

Actually he had 3.4 seconds. I know that seemed like forever, for our offensive line. But actually Drew Brees regularly gets that amount of time. He takes 2.6 seconds or longer to throw on about 51% of his drops.

 

One really need look no further than some of the touchdowns Brees threw against the Dolphins to see that he had perfectly formed pockets that he COULD have stepped up into but didn't for at least 3 seconds generally, and converted those clean pockets into touchdowns. I don't understand the sentiment that says that on all these big plays Brees should have stepped up into that clean pocket just in case his blind side protector was getting beat like a drum.

 

I don't know what the motivation is, if there is any at all which there very well may not be, but I have noticed that the dividing lines on this OL vs. QB issue do approximate the dividing lines on the Ireland Good vs. Ireland Bad debate. Probably just a coincidence. But it's something I noticed before about a week ago.