Ed Werder: Dolphins discouraged with Ryan Tannehill

I understand the criticism that Tannehill is getting for holding on too the ball to long, really I do. but as far as I'm concerned the real issue is the O line. watching the games this season Tannehill is almost constantly under pressure or has the defense in his face. to me it's all just political correctness BS. to expect our young QB to realistically develop he needs time to develop and until this crappy Oline starts giving him more time this is just lip service. if the FO is so upset over his performance then they damn well better be really ****ing pissed off at the performance of the O line!

 

Has anyone else seen this Ed Werder segment?

 

Not me. I'd rather watch Lifetime than ESPN studio shows

 

If what OP said is true than someone else would have seen this report and picked it up.
Therefore he is full of ****.

 

Some more things to consider on this issue.

Some of Ryan Tannehill's plays need to be viewed within the context of the pass protection. Ryan Tannehill is being conditioned by a combination of poor pass protection and external/internal pressure to get the ball out of his hands extremely quickly.

Everything is happening quickly. He's releasing the ball quickly (2.29 seconds, 3rd quickest average in the NFL), he's being sacked quickly (3.62 seconds, 7th quickest average in the NFL), and he's making the decision to scramble quickly (4.30 seconds, 6th quickest average in the NFL). He's scrambling 5.5% of the time when pressured, versus league average 5.8%, so he's scrambling about as often as "normal". He's just doing everything much faster than everyone else, generally speaking.

Even so, he's taking criticism externally and even criticism internally saying that he's holding onto the football too long and that's one of the reasons he's being sacked.

Think about that, and then revisit some of the bad plays from the Saints game within that context.

I'm going to use some pictures from an article written recently by Erik Frenz (B/R's AFC East Lead Writer) on Ryan Tannehill's issues.

This is the first interception Tannehill threw during the game, the one that really mattered.



Tannehill throws this ball to his first read on the play. The quickest throw possible.

Some of that is trust. He trusts Brian Hartline to win that route and cross that corner's face. But the reason he refused to read the corner's leverage (sitting on the route, no back pedal) and check off the option was because of the conditioning he's been put under to do everything quickly.

The following play is one where Brandon Gibson and Brian Hartline get tangled up and the ball goes incomplete as a result.



The defense is showing man. Hartline is supposed to clear his man coverage out of the left side of the field and then you have three other receivers running routes flowing from right to left toward the vacated space. The collective movement of the four receiving options puts pressure on the defenders and allows Tannehill to read the field from left-to-right picking out the open man.

He didn't do that. He threw it to his first real option on the play, Gibson breaking into the space directly underneath Hartline's clearing route, without bothering to notice Hartline was struggling to get off the line and the left side two-route combination was not choreographing correctly.

Why did he do that? Could be pure blindness, of course. But I think it's because he's being conditioned to get the football out of his hands so quickly that he's not opening himself to reading nuances for fear of it creating hesitation and a sack opportunity.

When you think you know where you're going with the football and something nuanced happens down the field that makes you hit the kill switch on that idea, that can interrupt your rhythm read. He's currently being conditioned to where if that happens and he ever needs to pull that kill switch, he's as good as sacked. So it shouldn't be surprising that he's forcing the ball at times to the first read in the rhythm progression that makes sense based on the coverage, and not necessarily seeing the nuances of what's happening man to man.

 

This tells me that we should be worried about the Oline struggles beyond how we finish this season...it could create some permanent developmental damage to a promising young quarterback. Vertical Limit brought up David Carr...hard to think that shellshock and happy feet from a couple years behind a bad oline didn't contribute to his career trajectory.

 

Damn, Clay looks pretty open on that 2nd play (not sure if people behind him, who aren't pictured, could make a play).

 

Everybody in the building knows that Pouncey is really good, Cogs is average to good, Martin is bad to average, Clabo is bad and Jerry is crap warmed over. Thanks, CK, for the analysis, but what it shows in simple terms is that Ryan is not getting time to throw. All ills stem from that fact.

Since Jerry and Martin are supposed to have shown up in training camp in shape and stronger, and Clabo has been a serviceable right tackle elsewhere, I'm beginning to think that the guy who needs to be held accountable is Jim Turner. He has had no solution so far. These are NFL linemen; they should be coachable so that they are not crap as a unit. Right now, they are.

Sunday is huge for this team. Either the offensive line comes out breathing fire and knocking people into next week because of what's been said about them by the Saints DL, or they just don't have the ability. If it's the latter, Cogs is right: they should be fired. We should play the season out and replace them and their coach (except for Pouncey) unless they show well against good teams before the season ends. Baltimore is the first test.

 

Based on the coverage and the fact that #31 is stumbling on the ground behind Clay, I'm sure you're right. Tannehill never got off the first read as it should have been open in theory with the Saints players playing the techniques they were playing.

 

Yes. I would like to kidnap Alex Gibbs

 

Yea, I'm not saying Tannehill made the wrong decision or throw, just that it's unfortunate that Clay was so open given the result of the play.

 

mariotta should be the #1 pick So I would get over that one.

 

I don't like Mariota that high at all.

 

Man..that's good..

What I'm seeing right now when looking at his reps is how many balls this dude is completing right when pressure is on him..he's hanging as long as he can on some, and if he didn't, the completions wouldn't of been there..I mean he's being told not to leave the pocket, and you can tell that's what his focus is, I would think any Qb if they weren't being instructed to hang would obviously bail in the same circumstance while probably sacrificing a positive result.

 

If the QB doesn't trust his pocket we have major issues.

 

This keeps up, it ruins his development. The habits he will develop will screw him as a QB.

 

What habit does he have right now that's so bad? (genuinely curious what you think)

 

I'm not terribly worried about that. I tend to think in most cases, talent wins out. May have a challenging year or two that might have been unnecessary but I'm not worried about ruining him or anything.

I mean if you look at Phil Rivers clearly something went stale in 2011 and 2012...but sure enough, change things up a bit, he's a star quarterback again.

 

The thing I'm excited about is, if we EVER figure out how to get a damn offensive line to protect the kid and give him time, think about how good he will be.

 

3 new linemen, shifting a tackle to guard and no lame duck Norv and all of a sudden hes back to top 5 after everyone souring on him.

 

Hopefully.

One thing I want to see is whether he can convert instances where the OL gives him more time into good passing. It's hard to separate out how many of these drop backs are pressured versus not but his passer rating on plays where he holds the ball 2.5 seconds or longer is about 71 and that't not high enough. But he's been pressured 55 times total with 17 of 34 passing for 226 yards, 0 TDs and 3 INTs...18 sacks. He's held the ball longer than 2.5 seconds on 60 drop backs with 19 of 38 passing...and I don't know anymore information than that. So I'm not positive how much overlap there is.

 

Exactly. For a while I considered him part of the elite level that included Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Peyton and Big Ben. I thought he was deserving of that.

Crap. Speaking of which we actually have to play San Diego this season. That isn't good.

 

Revenge for not releasing final cuts until omar and mando were already tucked in bed. They probably thought they could strike sooner.

 

To be honest, given the offensive line problems I'm not comfortable with any of the remaining games on the schedule. Even old *** broken down Pittsburgh could do damage.

 

Just a difference in Terminology but I always had Brady and Peyton in tier 1. Rodgers joined them after 2011. Ben, Brees and Rivers in tier 2 but the qualification being tier 2 is still excellent. Just a minute notch below the other 2/3. Brees really borderline though. But Ben and Rivers always one notch below.

 

Yeah I agree. I'm pretty much pricing in a 3-1 record against the Bills and Jets. I think that's the most likely outcome. I think the most likely outcome against the Patriots is 0-2 and I know some people aren't going to like that but this is very much a "prove it" thing.

The Buccaneers should be a win. I don't think we face them in time for them to totally get their sh-t together and become one of those teams that end up with a poor record but actually were winning at about a 0.500 clip toward the end or the middle, etc.

So that's an easy 4 more wins that gets you to 7 for the year.

From there you've got the Ravens, Bengals, Chargers, Panthers and Steelers. I do think the Steelers will have enough time to get their sh-t together by the time we play. I think the Panthers already secretly have their sh-t together and that will show pretty soon. Same with the Chargers.

The Bengals could have further to fall before they get their mojo back, so I think we play them at a fortunate time.

Ravens and Steelers games would be an example of unfortunate timing, with the Ravens game coming a week after Flacco embarrassed himself with a 5 interception loss against the Bills, and the Steelers being late in the year when they'll probably get going again as long as Big Ben is still on the field.

If you've got a 2-3 record for those 5 games then you get to 9-7 in my opinion. If you get to a 3-2 then I think you go 10-6. I don't see Miami going 4-1 against them.

 

I said before the year that we'd be going 9-7 and miss the playoffs. But I also didn't expect us to be 3-1. So hopefully we play up to 10-6 which I think will make the playoffs.

 

Im thinking a split with the Bills and Jets, with one of the Jets games being one of those games that no one wants to win. I don't see a win against the Pats either. I see wins against the Bengals, Ravens, Bucs, and Chargers, but the Steeler game is a tossup. I think the Chargers game is a win only for the west coast team traveling east for a 1pm game. So, 9-7 overall and missing the playoffs because the Titans and Chiefs getting wild card spots.

 

I picked the Titans to win more than expected but I think in that division even with some of the woes facing the Texans they're still probably in the best position to get things going and pick up the wildcard. I think the Colts are the division winner there, which is what I said months ago.

 

IMO, we need to sweep the jets and bills. It's a tall order but we are a better team. Both qbs will give us ample opportunity to beat them. Win those 4 and the sky is the limit

Oh and how is the steelers a toss up? Have you been watching them...

 

CK noted how Tanehill is beginning to develop certain habits based on lack of time. Of course, he also seems to think those are reversible habits.

 

Which of the habits that you're referring to are bad though in your opinion? And why do you think they are bad?

 

Before I answer this, let me bve clear to the dumb people (not you Stitch) who sometimes do not READ THE WORDS in a post.... aATTENTION! I am NOT saying Tannehill is doing all of these *today*! I am *not* saying these are definitely going to happen, not are happening. This is not a prediction! This is me answering someone's hypothetical "if things played out the negative way, what would you be concerned would happen as a result"

Okay, with that out of the way... the habits I worry about forming if his lack of protection keeps up:

- Feeling phantom pressure because a playclok of 2.1 second to pressure has been pounded into his Central Nervous System
- Rushing throws when he had more time (once protection DOES improve someday) and thereby not letting routes develop or not going deep enough
- Becoming a captain check down
- Because of a tendency to throw on a short cadence, DBs beginning to cheat, and break on the WR/ball around that time, knowing the ball will be delivered in that timeframe, leading to more INTS
- Increased happy feet, ball patting and general Joey Harrington-like fear showing, and not allowing him to calmly execute the ball (like a nervous free throw shooter with his muscles all tight versus a relaxed one in basketball. I believe that affects your throwing motion)
- With fewer deep balls, defenses compressing down towards the LOS, strangling the run game, and leading to smaller passing windows leading to worse downs and distances, more INTS, more punts and an exhausted Defense.
- Vacating the pocket and running in fear before going through progressions.... this is something I think the coaches are trying to prevent by teaching him to hang in there as much as possible (Philbin has said as much). I think they want to prevent the bad habit of a QB glancing downfield for 1.5 seconds then taking off running all the time because he doesn't trust his protection (since he got whacked so much for so long).

Football is like a human body. When one biological system is out of balance there is a chain reaction. If I forecast foreward, I don't like the look of that chain reaction.

 

If by coached you mean he's going to be crushed and has no choice but to get the ball out, yes, he is being coached by opposing defenders.

Hard.

 

From the Saints game I am more discouraged by the coaches. So it would not surprise me if they were passing the buck.

 

So you are saying he is definitely the next Joey Harrington. Do you see us grabbing Gray Crow in the 7th rd in 2016 draft? Will Indy take a 2nd Rd pick for Matt Hasselback? kiddin' (I hope none of your hypotheticals play out but it's a great breakdown of how you can lose a player mentally, and often wondered if that's what happened to Dontrelle Willis)