Looking back at the 2010 draft...wowzers did we pass on a bunch of talent

In all fairness, who cares what the other twenty teams did or did not do?

Seriously though, I would love to hear about a GM interviewing for a job, being questioned as to why he missed on tons of studs, and replying with a shrug "Hindsights 20/20..." These guys are paid pick great players. Not doing so is a failure of their job description. Nothing wrong with looking back and questioning the logic of certain picks. It's the nature of the draft process.

 

I think the point is that the standards some are holding the team to are neither realistic, nor instructive. You could literally make this same criticism for every GM in the world.

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fair enough. Could always be worse, I suppose. Like Jacksonville drafting a punter 5 spots ahead of Russell Wilson, worse.

 

if one man makes the grade then something is out of whack . I gave that draft a pure "F" because that class was indeed week . ITS time for Miami to get better players because our draft classes have been very week ever since Saban took over .

 

We used to do it with a full cardboard shoe box soaked in lighter fluid. Thanks for the memories.

 

What? It wasn't an A+ by any means but anyone calling it an F clearly has little understanding of the draft.

 

Lol you're really going to a smug ****head over a typo due to a phone's auto correct? That about sums up your posting quality as a whole. For one - PFF's secondary rankings are hilariously flawed, especially when it comes to the Pats. Know who the main developer of PFF cheers for? I'll give you a hint - it's the team ol Devin plays for. He was also one of the worst ranked (in terms of first down/touchdowns given up) CBs in 2012. He got a lot of interceptions, but over 40% of them were tipped, and 1 was due to him being out of position hilariously but on a poor pass.

So yes, you condescending ***, I'd say that while you know the name, I know the player just a little bit better. I wouldn't dare put him on the same level as many players you have listed.

 

Mark Duper and Mark Clayton - Two of the smallest recievers one could have yet I'm almost sure Dan Marino would not have been as great of a passer as he was without them.

Small recievers are everywhere in the NFL and while Randy Moss and Calvin Johnson are rare in their size, cutting ability, and speed and likely the perfect mold for a reciever, most bigger guys can't get around like the smaller recievers.

In the end, I think it's a difference of mentality, bigger target possession guys or smaller breakaway speed types. Moss and Johnson are rare in that they had both. (Although Moss wasn't great in traffic over the middle like Johnson is - Johnson can flat out do it all.)

The Smurfs in Washington...Alvin Garrett Charlie Brown Virgel Seay and Art Monk (Although Art was over 6'3).

In the end, being small at wide reciever is probably less of a deterent than any other position.

What sold me on Austin - Was the countless plays he made in college. The guy was pure playmaker supreme - He just knows how to get open - he makes the catches and he has a knack for making that first guy miss and turning it into a big play. That translates well to the NFL IMO. He made more big plays at West Virginia then probably nearly all the other recievers combined.

 

Fixed.

 

there are 52 weeks in a year. There are seven days in a week. I think it is weak to go back and play that what if game...

 

While in general I agree with you… it has been 25+ years for the two examples you used… think there is a reason for that?

 

I would take very kindly to this type of message if it was posted before the draft, when it'd be actually useful. But anyone who's literate can go back years after the fact talk about who was a good pick and who wasn't. Two thumbs down for that. There are 31 other teams so unfortunately Miami will not be able to have all of the good players to themselves.

Get over it.

 

Tavon's height isn't the end all be all. Obviously the taller the better. The 174lbs is a much bigger issue. What 174lbs guys do you see in today's NFL staying consistently healthy? Austin is giving up about 20lbs or more to almost every defender in the league. And unlike college which has a wider area of space to play in, Tavon is going to be playing in more of an inclosed space with superior NFL talent. I don't think he's going to be a bust, but I'll be shocked if he ever lives up to his draft position.

Either way, it's not like we had a chance to draft him. #3 is way too high for TA and St. Louis would of jumped us anyway if we had stayed home.

 

I'm in total agreement.

 

I agree, he was never going to be a Dolphin and I have never been a fan of taking the 1st round WR. Although Calvin Johnson made me eat crow on that one, he is truely a special talent.

But when you can get the Jerry Rice's of the world late in the draft, I just see it as a position that can be filled later with a decent eye.

That being said, Tavon will not only start this year, but put up 1,000 yards. He really is pure playmaker supreme. The perfect turf guy for the Rams, nobody will cover him, he is way to quick.

 

Holy ****..lol..the jags took a punter when they had Russell Wilson on the board...lol

 

Look, you guys pointing out that other teams passed on these same players is relevant but negated if the other teams picked up good players and/or are winning.

We missed on these players, we "arguably" didn't pick up anyone in their stead (Reshad notwithstanding) and have had losing seasons.

"Oh but all these other teams missed on them too."

Did they get other marquee players? Are they winning? If no to both, fire their GM too and if you look, there is a good chance they are gone or on the hot seat too.

 

This occurs because the pro-Ireland side has successfully framed the debate in such a manner that forces the pro-new GM side to scrape for arguments.

Ireland has somehow been disassociated from every personnel move that occurred before 2011 despite him holding the General Manager title since 2008. He's also been disassociated from the performance of the team; Herculean efforts have been made to distance him from the repeated losing seasons. Then he's disassociated from his own bad decisions by the citation of moves made to attempt to correct those bad decisions; there is actually a thread describing a kicker selected in the fifth round as a "beast", which goes on to explain that the incumbent kicker with a huge contract is likely out of a job because of his huge contract, while the guy who gave him that big contract and then drafted a potential replacement in the fifth round is somehow given an up arrow.

When there is no honest, good faith basis for a discussion because one side has stubbornly denied every likely and usual platform that would be used for a performance evaluation, the result is threads like this.

 

#ExtendIreland

 

Well, since our primary means of scoring points during that era came from the toe of that player... it might not have been a bad idea!

 

#DiscussionOverTimetoMoveOn

 

It's so easy to look back in hindsight and say, we should have done this or that. I'd have more respect for your criticism if you dissected the 2013 draft, before any of us has 3 seasons to know who panned out and who didn't.

If you want to play GM...put something up, otherwise SHUP, anyone can play Monday Morning QB.

Play in the present or don't play...there are members here out on the limb with evaluations that involve today. Get there.

 

how though do you logically assess blame on a GM when we know there were certain variables in play that directly affected the power of what a real GM is ultimately responsible for?

I've thought about what your saying here many times, and really I have no idea how one would look past variables to favor or be against a particular GM, we all want the same thing and thats the right talent evaluator that shapes our roster, I want to get the right guy, but when your hired by someone with that legacy, with that kind of craving for power, with the reputation for wanting for the first time to pick the groceries and shape a team in his mold, I don't think your case outweighs those variables?

 

I don't like to complain about a thread when I'm posting in it, but this thread is rehashing hashness.

 

theres just no way to be accurate about the job before 2011..every pick matters in the grand scope of the job, if one or two were fu&$ed with it changes everything..

 

Ireland has often said that the decision making process prior to Parcells leaving was that of mutual consent. Everyone in the room had a say and decisions were made collectively. Assuming that is true—realistically, who actually believes that the regional scout had equal say with the VP of Football Operations?—that means Ireland had both hands in the pot, along with everyone else. Those everyone elses are gone, only Ireland remains. Why, then, was it appropriate and positive that they get the axe, but inappropriate and negative to suggest Ireland get the same?

Additionally, assessing blame in any organization generally has less to do with whom specifically committed the action and more to do with whom specifically has oversight and command of that action. In most organizations, if someone screws up, it's less their fault than their supervisor's fault for not being on top of that person. This is why executives make large amounts of money; they bear the most legal and organizational responsibility for performance. Regarding the Dolphins, contractually and organizationally, responsibility for roster construction rests with the general manager, and has since 2008 when it was written into that person's contract. If Dolphins scouts swear up and down that Tyrion Lannister is a surefire hall of fame player, and the Lion of Lannister gets drafted and busts, it's not the scouts' responsibility, it's Ireland's.

The electric fence the pro-Ireland side has constructed around this conversation is Muldoonesque.

 

I gotta give it to you, that's a helluva post. I disagree on Ireland but I'll give credit where it's due, well done Sir.

But, WADR, Ireland was kept as the GM. People with a lot more info than any of us have took a look at the situation and decided that it was better to retain him. When is it going to sink in? You and others are basically making the same tired old arguments from 2,3 years ago about an issue that was decided long ago.

I could be a dick and bump the threads where the Firelanders were predicting doom in 2012 and begging for Matt Barkley in the 2013 draft (LMAO). Instead the team was highly competitive throughout the season and IIRC not eliminated from playoff contention until week 16. Since then the (very young) team has added some much needed firepower, some key additions at areas of need and by most accounts is positioned to at the very least challenge for a playoff spot. It's time to evaluate the 2013 team not rehash old debates. Do you still think the team sucks? Has Ireland continued to do a bad job of managing the roster, hiring a new HC and coaching staff since Ross and co decided to keep him?

Or are you hiding in a Normandy bunker waiting for your chance to throw the Americans back into the sea?

 

I think he does think the team sucks.

 

Circa 2011....

 

I think people spend too much time trying to confirm what they already think and not enough time trying to learn more.

 

I'm pretty sure they tried to get rid of him after 2010 and failed.

 

Bingo.

 

Yup. Odrick, Misi and Jones totally suck. Definite F!!!

 

Say what? The greatest WR in the history of mankind was picked in the mid 1st. Are you saying there have been some clones of Rice available since then later in the draft?

 

That's not the point. The point is that it's become impossible to have a rational discussion about Ireland's job performance, because all methods that might credibly be used to evaluate him have been ruled out of bounds by a group dedicated to… whatever the heck they're dedicated to. You would know more about that part than I do. It seems to be less about belief that the right person is making the right personnel decisions and more about defending a stated position no matter the cost.

We've been told that win-loss records and player performance don't or shouldn't reflect on the GM. What criteria should we be using to evaluate GMs, if the results of individual and team play are inadmissible?

I'm not rehashing old debates; Ireland has done very little since the departure of Parcells and his ingratiation with Ross that makes sense to me. I have several fundamental issues with the way he's managing the roster, and I don't have the same glowing opinion of his 2013 offseason that most around here seem to. I think his positional priorities are wrong, and I think he's too quick to pat himself on the back—Dan Carpenter's contract is a giant neon "I found a great player!" sign, which is about to be torn down and put on the NFL equivalent of eBay by the looks of it.

This is what I mean about being unable to have a rational discussion.

The Dolphins are 13-19 over the last two seasons. That certainly isn't good. And I don't think a team with an unusually inexperienced QB is a likely candidate to take a playoff spot in a conference where you can more or less pencil in 5 of the 6 Seeds.

 

The team is built a little differently now. You're entitled to believe we'll suck. I don't agree. I also don't agree that you can pencil in 5 of the 6 spots. Denver, NE, and Houston, sure. One of Baltimore/Pittsburgh will take the division. We'll see how we stack up against Indy, Cincinnati, and Baltimore/Pittsburgh. I think the WC spots are wide open.

I think at this point we know who is in favor of Ireland and who is not. There are people who will excuse him of every move before 2011, yes. Then there are people who will under sell every move he's done well as if everything was done by pure luck on his part, if they even decide to mention a move he's done well. So maybe it's best not to beat this dead horse again.